I have a 454, reading now that 475 or 480 Ruger is "better"

[Sturmcrow]

I have both a 454 Casull revolver and levergun. I chose this cartridge based on the ability to go from mild to wild. I have actually been somewhat underwhelmed by the recoil, as I was expecting it to be severe, and that is kinda what I was looking for. Clearly, the revolver is not a rapid-fire self defense weapon, but I have no problem running a few cylinders through and imagine it would only get better with a glove to take some of the impact between middle finger and trigger guard. The perceived lever action recoil is not much greater than my 30-30 lever.

However, the true purpose of this post is to ask the basic question, "What am I missing in the discussion of 45 caliber vs. the 48 caliber revolver cartridges?"

The argument I have read is that the 480 Ruger is better because it shoots heavier bullets and has a larger diameter. A quick search shows 400gr cast traveling at 1200fps. What is the supposed hurdle keeping me from loading up a 454 round using a 400gr bullet at that velocity?

Handloads.com shows a 454 load of 395gr at 1300fps that is also at least 28% lower than max pressure at 43,000 CUP.

Don't even get me started on the "bigger is better" idea behind the above statement about the 480 being superior to the 454. The difference in diameter is barely 5%, and frontal surface area is barely 10% different. If that is enough to make a difference, then the 22% frontal area increase of the 50 caliber revolvers must truly be the best answer, and heck, why stop there!

The mitigating factor I have read is that the 480 has less recoil for similar performance. I cannot help but think that that 43,000 CUP load I mentioned above could not be too bad compared to some of the 60,000 PSI loads I have fired already. I should mention that my revolver has a 9.5" barrel, which must help some, but even my little sister (160 lbs or so) had no problem with my full-bore 300gr lil' gun loads.

[Love Life]

Great story.

[tek4260]

Great story.

+1 :popcorn:

[454PB]

I've been shooting the .454 for 21 years now. I own 3 revolvers and a Puma rifle.

While I can't imagine needing more power or recoil, you might be a candidate for owning either a .460 or 500 S&W magnum.

[subsonic]

Just get them all. They're all fun!

Decide for yourself what you like to spend your money on.

[Sturmcrow]

Actually, I considered the 480 Puma, but as long as it took me to find one in 454 at a reasonable price, I had no hope of getting one in 480 in the near future.

I realized as I was typing the OP that this is mostly a question of semantics. The manufacturers always want us to get the next best thing, and many of us buy into their marketing, but it bothers me to read that one cartridge is better than another when the math does not seem to add up.

I guess a better question would have been, "Any problem with jamming a 395gr bullet into a 454 Casull case?" I know a lot of folks stop at 360gr, but is there a good reason why?

The reasons I ask this question here is that there are a lot of factors that go into bullet design that I am not 100% familiar with. I just know that if there is a problem with center of gravity or twist rate with such a heavy bullet, someone will let me know.

[subsonic]

They sell them that heavy in the right size.... At some point, velocity or stability will not be what you want.

Try it? I think Hodgdon also shows load data for 395gr.

I think it will depend on twist and velocity acheivable.

Why do you want a load like that? What purpose does it serve for you? Is it worth even messing with?

[2 dogs]

I believe you can kill anything that walks crawls or flies with a 454. I have shot lots of full on 454 as well as the 475 and 500 Linebaugh. They can all get pretty sporty too. Its all about what you like.

[475/480]

No question the 475 and 480 are better :D

Sean

[LUCKYDAWG13]

i have a Encore 454 with a 13" barrel love it does all i need with a 300gr cast boolit

[Jack Stanley]

The Casull round will do everything you want it to do , how can there possibly be anything better to do the job you are getting done ? If it didn't do the job , then you would have room for questions of what's better .

I've used the puny forty-four magnum quite a bit and never found it lacking . I even got a chance to fire the Casull round . I do believe it would do better on anything living on this continent better than my puny forty-four :lol:

Jack

[44man]

I am called crazy as a loon so forgive me! [smilie=l:
I will forever insist that 1300 to 1400 fps range is the best for a hard flat nose boolit for hunting, anywhere else and the boolit needs some expansion and since my best shooting is with a harder boolit I have no need for more speed.
I feel the .454 is a step up from the Colt because a decent boolit can be shot faster and at say, 1350 fps, it will do anything and outstrips the .44 and the Colt. If you want to go full pressure and velocity, it really does better with a good bullet.
The problem comes in because the .454 has a slower twist and too heavy a boolit needs shot fast so you will need some expansion unless you find accuracy below 1400 fps. Most cylinders are short so a bullet needs seated deep once weight gets too high.
Even a .44 with a lighter boolit shot too fast is not as good as a heavier one at 1350 and the caliber has a weight limit. The Colt with a heavy boolit is kind of slow, kills OK but recovery is slower on deer, it has a velocity limit.
I would stay with 335 to 350 gr in the .454. In the end, there is nothing it can't do as long as you tailor the boolit/bullet for the velocity and animals hunted.
Boolit weight is not the final answer and it is not weight alone in the larger calibers. It has a lot to do with boolit length for a given weight and stability. Going to a very long boolit in a smaller caliber presents stability problems, like the 405 gr in the .44 or the crazy 700 gr in the .500, they don't work! Shoot only what is accurate.
BUT, the .475 and .500 JRH, both with the right boolit at the same velocity of around 1350 fps with a hard cast, are stunning on game, shock to them needs to be seen.
Go larger like a .460 or .500 S&W and you just open another can of worms, they are overboard.
Nothing on earth can withstand a .454 if you shoot it as intended and choose your bullet.

[TCTex]

Nothing on earth can withstand a .454 if you shoot it as intended and choose your bullet.
And it has been proven time and time again!!!

I think the main difference is the cost of the jacketed bullets. LOL

:cbpour:

[paul h]

As one on of the biggest fans of the 480, I don't think I've ever said it's better than a 454, but it is different.

To me where the 454 shines is as a scoped long range revolver. With a 300 gr bullet @ 1700 fps, trajectory is flattened out and you have an honest 200 yd hunting revolver. The downside is it does generate a faster recoil and a more pronounced muzzleblast.

Why I like the 480 is that I've shot many, many 454's, 475's and 500's and I freely admint I personally can't handle that level of recoil without my groups turning into patterns. I shot a 480 shortly after it was introduced and found the recoil to be that of a big 44 mag. When I hunt with a handgun I prefer it to be iron sighted and shots to be close, hence I don't need the added range of a 454.

If someone has a 454 and shoots it well, I don't see any benefit in going to a 480/475. If however someone is looking to get more gun than a 44 mag, but doesn't want brutal recoil, to me the 480 fits a very real niche and to my way of thinking the 480 is ~30% more gun than the 44, and that is a jump worth taking.

Oh, and if you want to go with heavy bullets, the 480 can go up to 460 gr @ 1100 fps and still shoot very accurately.

[44man]

Paul, those are my thoughts too. Long range is where more velocity is needed.
I see it all the time on deer. A deer hit with a .44, 320 gr boolit at 100 yards shows the same reaction as the deer shot at 50 yards with a 335 gr .45 Colt. Full penetration, good blood trails and a dead deer but they just go a little farther. The .44 has bled off velocity at 100.
Now this is with behind the shoulder, double lung hits. If you smack a deer in the shoulders or spine at 100 yards with either, it drops and the boolit does not stop. You would be amazed at the penetration of a 335 gr .45 colt boolit starting at 1160 fps even after going 100 yards. The comparison is with both at 50 yards, the .44 will kill faster then the Colt.
I have never had a beef with velocity and do not believe in muzzle energy figures for hunting at all. I believe only in what any bullet/boolit does before exit of any animal. I do not believe you need boolits too heavy for caliber, heavy, good but not past accuracy.
I believe more in bullet/boolit construction that matches what you do.
You can kill from 800 fps to 4000 fps but has anyone noticed NOT WITH THE SAME BULLET! Same from 20 yards to 1000 yards---NOT THE SAME BULLET.
Energy dump thoughts are also wrong, thinking a bullet that stops has transferred all energy, it can stop just under the hide and blow the side off a deer off without reaching vitals. The wrong bullet can come apart on a bone. The wrong bullet can stop on a quartering shot and not reach vitals. The wrong bullet can flatten on a bear skull.
It is not your caliber, it is what you shoot. It is what you CAN MAKE SHOOT so you can hit along with performance inside the animal.

[fivegunner]

I have to agree with Paul H. I have 2- 454`s 2 -480`s and one 475 linebaugh. the 454casull at full power has a nasty recoil , the 475 will rock you back a little. the 480 feels like a warm 44mag:lovebooli:D

[TCTex]

I have a 9.5in SRH in 44 and a 9.5in SRH in 480 and both of which are scoped. Shooting the 310gr in the 44 and the 325gr in the 480, "I" can't tell the difference in the two rounds. JMHO.

http://www.handgunhunt.com/photopost/data/500/Picture_014.jpg

[Sturmcrow]

I think I will take the advice given and go with a 350-360gr load. I had read in multiple places that boolits above 1300fps will actually penetrate less than ones traveling slower. That got me thinking that pushing the 400gr to 1300fps would be about max. performance for anything I might try it on. However, I'm familiar with the fact that we hardly ever get something for nothing, and there has to be a reason why the 400gr loading is uncommon.

I'm planning to use a 3:1 pure lead to WW alloy, so even 1300 fps might be a bit fast. At 1650fps out of the rifle, it might be downright flattened against an animal.

It's funny, the difference between .429 and .452 is about 5%, and that's about the same as the difference between .452 and .475 and that between .475 and .500. I suppose it is not coincidence that those big bores are all about the same % apart (about the same between 41 and 44 too).

FWIW, I live in the midwest, not Alaska, so there is no reason at all that I would need a 400gr bullet at 1300 fps. Of course, that's never stopped anyone else from trying! As a math nerd, I do like too that 350gr is one twentieth of a pound.

Edit: I need to buy a mold bigger than the 300gr Lee I have now, but do not want one in both 400gr and 350gr, though I may get a lighter one in 250gr someday for plinking.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree totaly and will add that the differnce in diameter DOES make a diffence. a 10 percent larger bullet is a substantialy bigger bullet. Its like the differnce between a 25 cal rifle and a 30 cal rifle. Ill say the same about comparing the 475 to the 500s. I love the 475 because it does everything well but the 50s do seem to slap animals down faster. Like 44 man said if your using cast and are loading past 1400 fps your probably loosing performance. Lead alloys are just not tough enough to not deform on bone at those velocitys and your going to loose penetration. No big deal if your hunting something the size of deer which if you cut through all the bs on the internet is all 95 percent of all handgun hunters ever hunt, but if your talking BIG game you should be looking for all the penetration you can get. Im not going to sit here and badmouth the 454. Ive owned a few in the past and have taken game with them and they do great. Are they any better then a stout loaded 45 colt? probably not but the 45 colt has taken every game animal on the planet. Would i take one on safari if i had a 475 available. Not a chance.
I am called crazy as a loon so forgive me! [smilie=l:
I will forever insist that 1300 to 1400 fps range is the best for a hard flat nose boolit for hunting, anywhere else and the boolit needs some expansion and since my best shooting is with a harder boolit I have no need for more speed.
I feel the .454 is a step up from the Colt because a decent boolit can be shot faster and at say, 1350 fps, it will do anything and outstrips the .44 and the Colt. If you want to go full pressure and velocity, it really does better with a good bullet.
The problem comes in because the .454 has a slower twist and too heavy a boolit needs shot fast so you will need some expansion unless you find accuracy below 1400 fps. Most cylinders are short so a bullet needs seated deep once weight gets too high.
Even a .44 with a lighter boolit shot too fast is not as good as a heavier one at 1350 and the caliber has a weight limit. The Colt with a heavy boolit is kind of slow, kills OK but recovery is slower on deer, it has a velocity limit.
I would stay with 335 to 350 gr in the .454. In the end, there is nothing it can't do as long as you tailor the boolit/bullet for the velocity and animals hunted.
Boolit weight is not the final answer and it is not weight alone in the larger calibers. It has a lot to do with boolit length for a given weight and stability. Going to a very long boolit in a smaller caliber presents stability problems, like the 405 gr in the .44 or the crazy 700 gr in the .500, they don't work! Shoot only what is accurate.
BUT, the .475 and .500 JRH, both with the right boolit at the same velocity of around 1350 fps with a hard cast, are stunning on game, shock to them needs to be seen.
Go larger like a .460 or .500 S&W and you just open another can of worms, they are overboard.
Nothing on earth can withstand a .454 if you shoot it as intended and choose your bullet.

[44man]

I agree Lloyd, thank you.
I love pure lead and have taken over 250 deer with ML's from .45 to .54 and even the cap and ball revolver with round balls. I never recovered a single ball no matter the angle or distance on deer. My last deer with the cap and ball went straight up and fell dead. Deer at 100 yards with the .54 will spray blood like a fire hose.
But I can't shoot pure or too soft from the revolver and is why I established the velocity range I use.
Water dropped WW's work from the .44 to the .500 JRH but NOT in the 45-70 BFR, they just punch a hole but just softening the boolit can destroy a deer.
I feel the .454 should be treated like the 45-70. Even 45-70 rifles do better with soft, they killed millions of Bison.
But can the .454 shoot good with soft? I think a very hard base and a soft nose is the way to go. Or, cuss, cuss, one of the funny condom bullets! [smilie=1:
From experience I think a flat nose, hard boolit too fast widens the pressure wave off the nose making the secondary wound channel move tissue away from the boolit path. I have no other way to explain it.
Next would be animal size for boolit choice. Big and tough animals might need harder boolits from the revolver More velocity would not hurt because tough muscles and large bone will slow the boolit in passage making more internal damage. Someone called it "dwell time." I have come to believe in the theory.
The .454 with hard boolits might be the ticket for large game but for deer size I would either slow them or expand them.
The perfect point is complete penetration with the most internal damage before exit without ruining too much meat.
Your assessment of a larger caliber is right on, even at the same velocity, bigger increases damage by leaps and bounds.

[deepwater]

Paul H,

What barrel length and boolit do you use in Alaska in your .480?

thanks,

deepwater

[snowwolfe]

[QUOTE=Sturmcrow;1725744]I have both a 454 Casull revolver and levergun. /QUOTE]


What brand of revolver do you own?

It's mostly just personal choice as to what caliber to use for hunting. And with large caliber revolvers it is difficult to find hunters who have enough experience with different calibers on similar animals as to offer valid comparisons. My experience with the .454 is limited to shooting two Alaskan bull moose. One was taken at 10 yards away and required a total of 4 shots before it was dead. The Casull just didnt impress me as a good killer on LARGE animals.
However, I never killed a moose with any other handgun round so can't say for sure if they would of done better.

But for hunting in the lower 48 states with the exception of maybe buffalo or the limited chance of shooting a moose in one of the states that offer permits the Casull is most likely a good choice.

[High Desert Hunter]

Not surprised with the moose, I have seen them soak up a lot of hits from some pretty big rifle calibers. Unless it is a CNS hit, the big bulls seem to take 60-90 seconds to drop, friend nailed one at a little under 100 yards with 3 shots from a 375 H&H with 270gr bullets, every one of them was a kill shot, but that bad boy refused to go down. Only one I have personally seen drop in his tracks was shot in the neck with a 300 Win Mag and a 200gr Partition. I am anxious to try an Oryx with my 454, October can't get here fast enough. I will be carrying my Ruger #1 in 45/70, and the FA 454, one with 420gr bullets, the other with a 325gr bullet, both give me over 30" of penetration at 25 yards.

[Sturmcrow]

[QUOTE=Sturmcrow;1725744]I have both a 454 Casull revolver and levergun. /QUOTE]


What brand of revolver do you own?


It's a Ruger SuperRedhawk.

Is there a 50 caliber revolver round that is readily available in a lever action and of high performance? I wouldn't mind a 500 S&W, but I really dislike the look of those revolvers.

[paul h]

As far as a 50 in a levergun to pair with a revolver, as far as I know the only option would be a custom using a 500 linebaugh. The upside is the handgun could be made on one of the various ruger platforms, bisley, redhawk or super redhawk.

[kelbro]

If I can't kill it with my SRH 454, I probably shouldn't be shooting at it.

[Lloyd Smale]

John linebaugh is in the process of making up some short barreled ruger #1s in 500 linebaugh for anyone interested.
As far as a 50 in a levergun to pair with a revolver, as far as I know the only option would be a custom using a 500 linebaugh. The upside is the handgun could be made on one of the various ruger platforms, bisley, redhawk or super redhawk.

[44man]

The Linebaugh is a good round but has a limit to boolit length because the parent brass thickens soon so a long boolit will bulge brass.
It has a funny diameter too.
Working with some I think the JRH is the very best. They are loaded with .500 S&W dies, much cheaper then Linebaugh dies. Bullets/boolits and molds are easier to get. Brass is cheaper.
Right now I consider the JRH the very best of the .500's.

[saz]

John linebaugh is in the process of making up some short barreled ruger #1s in 500 linebaugh for anyone interested.

Drool!!!!

I LOVE my #1's!

But there is also Big Horn Armory. They were making a 500S&W levergun based on the 86 winny action. It was right between the 92 and 86 length, and purty to boot. But hang on to your checkbook when u see the price.

[paul h]

I think the S&W is the one with the weird dia. 50 cal in rifles has been 0.512" for some time. It's nice to be able to have molds you can use for both rifles and handguns. I've shot 470 gr lfn's out of my 500 Jeffrey, great plinking bullet.

[2 dogs]

I've never had a problem getting a mold for a .512 bullet.

[Lloyd Smale]

that would only be any kind of a problem if you were forming cases from 348 brass and i dont think many do that now that commercial 500 brass is readily available. Ive shot 520s out of my 500 and i cant imagine wanting anything any heavier. Most of the time im loaded with 440-450 grain bullets. The same weights that are ideal in the jrh and why. Hornady now makes 500 linebaugh dies and brass that are much cheaper then they were a few years back. As to bullet molds the 500smith and jrh may have a few more available but theres sure no problem getting them for the 512s. Lbt or ballistic cast has them and both will make you about any bullet you can dream up. A better statement might be that there are cheap molds available for the .501s and not for the 512s. I dont have much use for the 500smith. I feel about it like I do the 454 but even more so. Pushing cast to over 1400 fps just doesnt make sense to me so why the big case. the 500 jrh and 500 why are both fine rounds that are capable of performance equal to the 500 linebaugh. I like the linebaugh myself. It was the original big 50 and it does have a .12 bigger bullet.
The Linebaugh is a good round but has a limit to boolit length because the parent brass thickens soon so a long boolit will bulge brass.
It has a funny diameter too.
Working with some I think the JRH is the very best. They are loaded with .500 S&W dies, much cheaper then Linebaugh dies. Bullets/boolits and molds are easier to get. Brass is cheaper.
Right now I consider the JRH the very best of the .500's.

[jwp475]

The Linebaugh is a good round but has a limit to boolit length because the parent brass thickens soon so a long boolit will bulge brass.
It has a funny diameter too.
Working with some I think the JRH is the very best. They are loaded with .500 S&W dies, much cheaper then Linebaugh dies. Bullets/boolits and molds are easier to get. Brass is cheaper.
Right now I consider the JRH the very best of the .500's.



The 500 Linebaugh has no problem in the long bullet category. The 525 grain works perfectly in the 500 Linebaugh case

It is the 500 JRH that the brass thickens too much for the long bullets

[jwp475]

that would only be any kind of a problem if you were forming cases from 348 brass and i dont think many do that now that commercial 500 brass is readily available. Ive shot 520s out of my 500 and i cant imagine wanting anything any heavier. Most of the time im loaded with 440-450 grain bullets. The same weights that are ideal in the jrh and why. Hornady now makes 500 linebaugh dies and brass that are much cheaper then they were a few years back. As to bullet molds the 500smith and jrh may have a few more available but theres sure no problem getting them for the 512s. Lbt or ballistic cast has them and both will make you about any bullet you can dream up. A better statement might be that there are cheap molds available for the .501s and not for the 512s. I dont have much use for the 500smith. I feel about it like I do the 454 but even more so. Pushing cast to over 1400 fps just doesnt make sense to me so why the big case. the 500 jrh and 500 why are both fine rounds that are capable of performance equal to the 500 linebaugh. I like the linebaugh myself. It was the original big 50 and it does have a .12 bigger bullet.



Spot on Lloyd

[44man]

The 500 Linebaugh has no problem in the long bullet category. The 525 grain works perfectly in the 500 Linebaugh case

It is the 500 JRH that the brass thickens too much for the long bullets
Sorry, .348 brass cut to 1.4" has the brass get thicker sooner then .500 S&W brass. That limits boolit length but is also the reason the .500 Linebaugh can run at higher pressures then the .500 JRH.
I said nothing bad about the cartridge and I like it. But if you want dies you need to suffer Midway postage and handling. Brass is getting better to find.
Yet either round is stupid with over 450 gr boolits anyway.
You can not buy .512" molds unless you go custom or buy expensive boolits.
It is going to cost more to shoot the Linebaugh in the end.
I have seen .500 Linebaugh dies go for more then $200 but Hornady came through.
It seems as if Redding and RCBS have no dies listed and neither does Lee or Lyman.
Since I was talking primarily COST to start and not to get carried away with boolit length, the round is just fine.
Then you need a custom gun while you can buy a BFR in JRH a lot less and it does all the Linebaugh does.
JWP, do you want to argue over the calibers or the price?

[paul h]

Back to the 480 argument :D

Here's why the 480 is better:

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/evefiles/photo_albums/6/0/5/605102271/790102446_E694F7AB8CF06937E17554D03A00F87B.jpg

460 gr wfn gc launched at 1100 fps at one of the linebaugh seminars. I don't recall who I sent the bullets to for testing, but the bullet on the left went through 38" of wet newsprint. The bullet on the right went through 2+" of bone and ~10" of newsprint.

As I recall the results from that year the absolute deepest digging 475 and 500 loads were 42", at most 44" and that 480 load out dug most 45 colt and 454 loads. So penetration within 10-15% of the best of the best, but at much lower recoil and at the time an easily obtained factory gun and more importantly a very shootable gun.

[jwp475]

Sorry, .348 brass cut to 1.4" has the brass get thicker sooner then .500 S&W brass. That limits boolit length but is also the reason the .500 Linebaugh can run at higher pressures then the .500 JRH.
I said nothing bad about the cartridge and I like it. But if you want dies you need to suffer Midway postage and handling. Brass is getting better to find.
Yet either round is stupid with over 450 gr boolits anyway.
You can not buy .512" molds unless you go custom or buy expensive boolits.
It is going to cost more to shoot the Linebaugh in the end.
I have seen .500 Linebaugh dies go for more then $200 but Hornady came through.
It seems as if Redding and RCBS have no dies listed and neither does Lee or Lyman.
Since I was talking primarily COST to start and not to get carried away with boolit length, the round is just fine.
Then you need a custom gun while you can buy a BFR in JRH a lot less and it does all the Linebaugh does.
JWP, do you want to argue over the calibers or the price?



I do not want to argue at all, but you have your facts wrong the 500 Linebaugh can not and does not run at a higher pressure than the JRH in fact the JRH runs the higher pressure 500 Linebaugh brass does not thicken enough to deter the use of long heavy bullets. The JRH runs in the low 50,000 PSI range and the 500 Linebaugh runs in the low 40's

The JRH brass thickens at the same distance from the head as does the 500 S&W, in fact Subsonic just ran into the in his quest to load very long heavy bullets in the 500 JRH

Just want to set the record straight and not steer anyone down the wrong path

[paul h]

Not to mention the smaller dia 500 s&w bullets are longer for a given weight than 500 linebaugh, thus exaserbating the "problem".

I have several friends that have shot 500 linebaughs for over a decade, and case swelling from long bullets was never an issue.

[44man]

I do not want to argue at all, but you have your facts wrong the 500 Linebaugh can not and does not run at a higher pressure than the JRH in fact the JRH runs the higher pressure 500 Linebaugh brass does not thicken enough to deter the use of long heavy bullets. The JRH runs in the low 50,000 PSI range and the 500 Linebaugh runs in the low 40's

The JRH brass thickens at the same distance from the head as does the 500 S&W, in fact Subsonic just ran into the in his quest to load very long heavy bullets in the 500 JRH

Just want to set the record straight and not steer anyone down the wrong path
You are correct, the JRH is running higher pressures so I apologize.
I am maxed out with 29.5 gr of 296 in the JRH with a 440 gr boolit but a 456 gr in the Linebaugh is using 31.5 gr.
I have no brass here to check water capacity between them but I have a boolit that will bulge Linebaugh brass so they will not chamber. I need to cast a few and size to .501 to see if they fit JRH brass.
I have measured case thickness of .500 JRH and S&W brass and find I go deeper in before it gets larger but .348 brass gets thicker faster.

[Lloyd Smale]

Actually if you ask John the 500 was designed to work in the mid 30,000 range and the 475 is loaded to the mid 40s. The 50we and 500jrh run pressures simular or a little higher then even the 475 was designed to. Now im not wet behind the ear and realize those were pressure limits John put on the rounds. I know perfectly well guys load the 500 up in the mid 40s and the 475 up brushing on 50k. What i see is the 50we and 500jrh are a much closer comparison in power and pressure to the 475 then they are to the 500 line. Pushed up past what john recomends the 500 linebaugh is a small step above the other three. Not near what a 500 smith is or a 500 max but those two rounds to me are a bit beyond practical and mostly appeal to the macho crowd that just wants the biggest. Bottom line is all of them are capable of killing anything that walks and ive shot some bigger game with the 500 and 475 linebaughs and have witnessed the buddy using the 50we and there sure isnt between any of them on game to really make a call. You can shoot 10 buffalo with each and even throw the 44 mag and 44 colt into the mix and about one in 10 will go down right now and the rest will vary in how long they stay alive from a leap to a good amount of them just keep on eating like they werent even hit until they fall over dead. I still remember John after a buffalo hunt comenting on how little effect the 50s had on buffalo. that allways reminds me when i hunting with one that i dont have some big ### death ray in my hand. what i have is a gun about as powerful as factory ammo in a 4570 or the old black powder loaded 4570s. You certianly arent toteing something with the smack down of a 375 h&h or a 458 mag. I personaly think the little differnces between all of the big revolver rounds from the 480 on up is hardly worth an argument.

[jwp475]

Lloyd is correct the500 Linebaugh is designed to run in the mid 30,000 PSI range of pressure and this is where Hogdon list top end pressure.

[jwp475]

I am not sure that anyone is making 500 Linebaugh cases from hard to find 348 cases any longer since is is much simplier and less expensive to simply purchase 500 Linebaugh cases

[44man]

I found a few boolits that WILL NOT FIT the Linebaugh, they are for the .50 Alaskan.
I sized them to .501" and seated one in a .500 JRH case. IT WILL CHAMBER with a slight rub on the brass, no pressure needed to stick it in the chamber.
These weigh 555 gr.
There IS a difference in brass thickness but overall, the Linebaugh might have more capacity.
I am correct that JRH brass can take longer boolits then the Linebaugh.
A stupid boolit that is too heavy anyway.

[subsonic]

Jim, can you mail me one of those? And/or measure the length from the crimp groove to the base?

Also measure OAL of the boolit?

Is that a Starline brand .500JRH?

[High Desert Hunter]

I'll be sticking with the 45 Colt and 454 Casull, they flat work, and have never let me down. This reminds me of the old 300 vs 338 argument, personally never saw a nickels worth of difference between the 2 when elk hunting. Shot placement is what makes the kill, bullet construction plays a large part as well. I guess I feel that a cartridge that has reliably taken every big game animal there is to hunt multiple times has room in my stable, I doubt I'll ever hunt elephant, but if i do, I know I have a cartridge and gun that will get it done.

[44man]

Nobody will use these huge boolits so it is a mute point. Stay with what is best and there is no difference except cost. I brought it up in case someone wanted to go too large. Stay at around 440 gr.
From what I measured, the Linebaugh brass is stronger then JRH brass. It thickens faster and down at the web it is thicker then .500 S&W or JRH brass. I need more brass to be sure and have to section it. I really need some Linebaugh brass.
Yet, it is still cost differences. Nothing wrong with either caliber.

[44man]

Jim, can you mail me one of those? And/or measure the length from the crimp groove to the base? Is that a Starline brand .500JRH?
Yes, Starline but I don't think you want to fool with this boolit. It is the very edge of stupid. From the groove to base is .700".
I loaded a few for Whitworths Linebaugh and you would need a sledge to get them in the gun. The brass had twice the boolit base bulge.
I made the mold for his Alaskan but wanted to see if it would fit the linebaugh.

[jwp475]

The 500 Linebaugh will easily handle the 525 grain WLFN by Cast Performance. The 500 JRH will not take a bullet laonger than about 440 grains without bulging the case and that is with Starline brass. Jack Huntington explored this completely when Starline made the brass for him

[44man]

The 500 Linebaugh will easily handle the 525 grain WLFN by Cast Performance. The 500 JRH will not take a bullet laonger than about 440 grains without bulging the case and that is with Starline brass. Jack Huntington explored this completely when Starline made the brass for him
Then How do I chamber a 555 gr boolit?

[jwp475]

Then How do I chamber a 555 gr boolit?



I am not there. I know that you are the only one that makes such claims. Jack wanted to comercial load a heavier bullet bullet the cases would not allow it. Subsonic has had the same problem

[subsonic]

If you load to 1.850" for a long cylinder, like BFR or custom Ruger, you can maybe get to around 500gr, probably 490gr. The Hornady 500gr XTP will fit, but it does bulge the case slightly, per another forum member that I can't recall.

Another fellow has told me he loads heavies and then sizes the case! Not what I want to do...

Somebody else told me to turn the outside of the case with a boolit seated.

Jim, send me a 555gr and I'll play with it. If someone has a 525gr CP .510", send it and I will run it through a .501" sizer and see if it fits.

I would like to shoot something like a 525gr. The .500JRH could really excel with a little more weight to increase SD.

Of course, the 440gr aren't going to bounce off of game...

[Lloyd Smale]

thats odd as both my 500 linebaughs will chamber bullets that wont chamber in my 50ak. I even kind of helped on the design of a heavy 512 hear because of problems i had with chambering other heavys in the ak. I will add though that the linebaugh built guns do have tight chambers. both of Mine chambers much better and even shoot better with bullets sized to 511 then they do at 512. Some of your bullet seating problems may be that your just running them to fat. Bottom line like was allready touched on is that this is a silly argument. Why would you possibly need a bullet heavier then 500 grain in any of the 50s anyway. Ive seen 480s out of the AK and linebaugh shoot lengthwize through bison. If im dealing with something any harder to penetrate which leaves cape buff. elephant and dinasours i will just go buy a box of punch bullets and be done with it. I chuckle at guns with those 50 smiths loading 700 grain bullets in them. Only logical need for them would be possibly to brag to the guys at the range. If it cant be killed with a 50 cal 500 grain bullet boys, its time to break out the big long guns.
I found a few boolits that WILL NOT FIT the Linebaugh, they are for the .50 Alaskan.
I sized them to .501" and seated one in a .500 JRH case. IT WILL CHAMBER with a slight rub on the brass, no pressure needed to stick it in the chamber.
These weigh 555 gr.
There IS a difference in brass thickness but overall, the Linebaugh might have more capacity.
I am correct that JRH brass can take longer boolits then the Linebaugh.
A stupid boolit that is too heavy anyway.

[44man]

I made the mold for Whit because he wanted to try a heavy boolit, I will never use it. He has what I cast to try in his AK but I don't know if it will fit either, I never tried to load any.
I know it REALLY bulged the Linebaugh cases, much more then it does my JRH brass. My BFR has tight chambers yet it went in but I would not expect all of them to.
They would only go to the bulge in Whit's Linebaugh. I had to pull the few I loaded.
Subsonic, sizing to .501" messed up the GG's and put a fin on the base.
One day I will mill the top of the mold off so they are a better fit for his Linebaugh.
I would stay with 440 gr for the JRH, it is at the perfect velocity.
I will be making a drop test at 200 yards later this week. I will be very surprised if it drops more then 18" to 20" with a 50 yard setting. Right now I aim dead on at 50 and 100 yards, not more then an inch difference.
The big boolit has a long nose at .385". Chambered in the JRH it has .050" left to the end of the cylinder. I don't think you want to fool with it, I have only one left anyway.

[Groo]

Groo here
I have 357,41,44,45,454,475,and 500.
From what I have seen and read , if you load with a similar bullet style
and SD and to about 1200 fps they will travel the same distance in game ...
Just the holes are different...
On thin skinned game [ American] there will be little difference in effectiveness once you get past about 44 ,But if you are going for bone or heavy skin game the larger
bullets will show more effect. [there is more to act upon]
My big thing is that with a bigger bullet you have a bigger flat on the nose for more
slap and that bullet can be driven at speed with less pressure..
Also the bigger the case the less pressure and that means the kick and blast are less.

[Whitworth]

I made the mold for Whit because he wanted to try a heavy boolit, I will never use it. He has what I cast to try in his AK but I don't know if it will fit either, I never tried to load any.
I know it REALLY bulged the Linebaugh cases, much more then it does my JRH brass. My BFR has tight chambers yet it went in but I would not expect all of them to.


We never used the heavy bullet in the Linebaugh -- only the .50 Alaskan. The 460 grainer (same bullet minus a lube groove) was the one we tried in the .500 Linebaugh and only one shooting session.

[High Desert Hunter]

Hope to let you guys know how the 454 performs on Oryx/Gemsbok this fall, the hide on them is pretty thick and elastic. I have no doubt it will be an in and out.

[Lloyd Smale]

to be fair i should add that the reason my 50ak doesnt work well with the heavys is nose lenght and nose shape not bullet weight. It will run the group buy 500 lfngc real well but its the only heavy ive had work right in it. Some will chamber but are rough feeding and some just wont chamber. My 500 linebaugh does just fine with even the 540 wfn but personaly i think its a silly combination.

[44man]

We never used the heavy bullet in the Linebaugh -- only the .50 Alaskan. The 460 grainer (same bullet minus a lube groove) was the one we tried in the .500 Linebaugh and only one shooting session.
That is true but I did load a few and they did not chamber in the Linebaugh. I pulled them.
I have no idea if they will work in the AK. I do not remember if I loaded any for it. Look in the box.
If it works in you AK, I will leave the mold alone but let me know if you want me to cut it down for the LB.

[Whitworth]

That is true but I did load a few and they did not chamber in the Linebaugh. I pulled them.
I have no idea if they will work in the AK. I do not remember if I loaded any for it. Look in the box.
If it works in you AK, I will leave the mold alone but let me know if you want me to cut it down for the LB.

We never loaded the heavy/long bullet in the .500 and I never left it there. Only the light bullet. I will look to see what I have.

[44man]

We never loaded the heavy/long bullet in the .500 and I never left it there. Only the light bullet. I will look to see what I have.
Good, I will cut the mold for you if you want. I just cut one boolit in the lathe and can make it about 460 gr.

[Snyd]

Not surprised with the moose, I have seen them soak up a lot of hits from some pretty big rifle calibers. Unless it is a CNS hit, the big bulls seem to take 60-90 seconds to drop....

Yup, I've shot 18 or so and been in on a few other kills. Probably 25-30 total moose kills over the past 21 years. They don't fall down like a deer when you shoot em in the ribs. The only bang-flop I've ever had that was not CNS was on a 2 year old, heart shot, 30-06 with a PSP bullet, blew up his heart and he fell over.