45-70 Sizing Die

[Splendid Ha Ha]

I could use some advice on a sizing die; have three 45-70's, Ruger #1, Browning 1885 Traditional Hunter and 1884 Springfield Trap Door. Being new to casting and such other endeavors, my question is what size sizing die would you use if you are trying to just use one die. When reloading the 405 gn cast bullit, it seats well at the base, but shaves some lead at the rings and I was thinking of getting a custom lee die in 459 dia. I am a little new to this, so take it easy on me, thanks.

[turbo1889]

The largest size that will freely chamber in all the guns.

I doubt that is as small as 0.459" I suggest you bell the mouth of one of your cases large enough to seat the boolit without shaving any lead just as it is cast un-sized from the mold. Then set a crimp die to take the bell out of the case mouth and see if the resulting round will freely chamber in all of your guns. If it does then just measure the "as cast" size of your boolits and you want a sizing die that just barely squeezes them but just makes them all uniform diameter and evened up like -0.0005" of the as cast diameter. If it doesn't freely chamber in all the guns then you need to reduces diameter of the boolit slightly by rolling it in-between two flat metal plates and try again and repeat until you figure out which size is the largest that will freely chamber in all your guns. If your going to use only one size die that is the size you want. If you already have multiple sizes of sizing dies it is a lot easier but rolling the boolit between two flat metal plates works well enough to size down a few for testing.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Ha Ha,

Turbo is giving you some good info to work with.

If you were working with a bottle neck cartridge, this would NOT likely apply,, but with the cases such as the 45/70, 38/357, 44 spl/44 mag etc. you can quite possibly get er done with one set of dies.

I have a set of the Hornady dies in 45/70 and find them doing a fine job, and are adjustable to the point where the Shorter Hornady Flex tip brass can be loaded while some dies do not provide enough adjustment for even these very slightly shorter cases.

I suspect you will soon be encouraged to slug your barrels and when you do so, you will very likely find that one boolit size is NOT going to give good results from all three rifles.

For sure, you will not want to run RUGER #1 loads through the Springfield.

One potential problem you need to avoid is mixing up loads and shooting them in the wrong rifle. This could make for a very bad day, or worse!!!!!!!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Splendid Ha Ha]

Thanks for the advice, I think with this information, the process of working this out will take its course. The only uploaded bullits that I shoot will be to hunt with in the Ruger and the Browning traditional hunter. Probably will stay with the Springfield loads for target shooting all of them. Fully loaded bullits work on the shoulder and that trapdoor will with the beginning load listed in the manual (Using 31.5 gn of 4198). I think it has something to do with the steel butt plate, shot it 4 times and could feel the effect of it. I have two boxes of ammo loaded and got to wait until I can get the the range at the camp to begin to shoot the trapdoor. Tried it out in the woods (4 shots earlier mentioned) and it seems to be on target at 40 yards. The barrel is so long, I will need some sticks to shoot the Trapdoor.

Did I say this business is addictive!!!!!!!!!

Also, thanks again for the advice

[Splendid Ha Ha]

Turbo

Rolling the bullits between a glass base with a flat metal on top appears the do the trick, and it did not take much rolling to solve the issue. Will try this and see how they shoot before I start looking for a sizing die. Also, the bullit was tight in the casing, and I did not see any minute bulging of the case which was being experienced prior to rolling.

Life never stops you from learning new things, thanks to all for the advice; may need some more tutoring in the near future as new conditions arise.

[MBTcustom]

Have you ever tried a lyman M die? It makes a huge difference.

[Splendid Ha Ha]

No, I purchased a Lee single cavity aluminum mold in the government cartridge 405 gns', and all the cast bullits weights' are in the 410 grains - 2 gns or plus 3 gns. that I am reloading. Weight is being determined by electronic scale and every now and then, I check one on the bar scale to make sure it is working without some error. About every 10 power charges, I check the load on the bar scale to check out the electronic scale. The electronic scale is new to me and I just do not have the confidence for it yet. Casting and loading is new for me, and I just do not want to make any mistakes, especially with the Trapdoor. I do have some experience with loading bullits for hunting, but cast loads is all brand new. Did I say that I really like this loading your own.:D

If I knew some one with an M die, It may be to my advantage to obtain a few bullits from them, or borrow the mold to see how it works prior to making any consideration to changing molds.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Ha ha,

The Lyman "M" die is for neck expanding during the loading process.

Just a tip from one who had been there and done that, Don't Go Spending Lots of Bucks on dies etc, until you have a proven need for something.

I have tumbled a few times for something, such as a profile crimp die for my .44 mag. and while it is a nice product, it NEVER showed that it could improve my loads or do anything beyond what a quality set of loading dies will do, and HAVE done for many years.

Well over 95% of the time, a quality set of loading dies from a well known and respected manufacture will do exactly what they are made to do, make it possible to reload/remanufacture your fired brass to the point where they can again be fired in your firearm.

For example, Lee has a sizable following of people who have bought into their cures for problems which in reality are not there in most cases.

Yes, they do have products which in some situations, perform a task which is truely needed, but as said earlier, in well over 90% of our loading tasks a good set of dies will do the job, IF Properly Set Up and Adjusted.

I am loading .460dia. - 465gr boolits in my 45/70 cases with not even a touch of a glitch with My Hornady dies and it is about a 100% chance I could do the same thing with a set of RCBS dies or those from another quality manufacture.

If you are shaving lead during the loading process, you need to go back and re-adjust your neck expanding/flairing die, you don't need to buy another die.

In most cases, save your money for powder and primers rather then filling the shelf with un-needed tools.

CDOC

[MBTcustom]

I just mentioned the M die because it eliminates leading and controls the amount of grip the brass has on the boolit, pretty much eliminating the boolits being swaged down by the brass. It also insures that the boolits are started strait into the brass. I make my own and love them. I am building one for every rifle I own. I have dealt with shaved lead for too long, especially with rifle calibers that dont have a neck flaring option. If you have a neck flaring section in your dies, then an adjustment is all you need to get rid of the leading, but you are still perching the boolits on top of the brass and hoping that they start in there strait and wont get swaged down in size.
I thought it was at least worth mentioning.

[Splendid Ha Ha]

Thanks Crusty

Now you know how much I knew about an M die; I agree with you on adding things that have little or no use. I am just taking my time with this project and like to add some experience before I start down an additional path. For the time being I will be following Turbo's advice on rolling the bullits, which seem to totally correct the problem. You were right when you stated that Turbo was providing some proven information. My bat cave has two sets of 45-70 dies and in use at present is a Lee Set. They have not given me any problems and I think the other set are Lyman's or RCBS- Brain does not function some times.

[Splendid Ha Ha]

Goodsteel

Thanks for the input, not having a problem starting the bullit, it is when it engages the next ring and the following ring, I was stopping to see what was in progress at the base and each ring and turning the bullit, which helped some,but it was still bulging the brass. With rolling the bullit, the bulging and lead cutting stopped and the bullit is still tight in the brass case.

At present, all the bullits will be rolled as Turbo suggested until I gain some more experience with this bullit casting. If I see one cutting lead, I plan to pull the bullit and start with a new bullit. I thought that I needed a sizing die, but with the results experienced with a simple rolling, the die appears to not be needed.

Planning to shoot it at the range at my place on Friday to see how the reloads are doing at 100 yards.

You do know that the 45-70 is one of the GCC's (Gods Chosen Caliber) and DRT (Dead Rite There). The 45-70 and the 338 win mag are my weapons of choice when hunting.

Thanks for your input and guidance trying to educate a newbe"

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

No problem on this end GoodSteel!!!!!!!!!!!

I just see so many posts about this and that being needed, and having hand/reloaded since the 60s I have very, as in almost never, needed anything other then what came with the 2 or 3 die sets.

Now, I tried to make clear that at some times it is possibly to need another tool, however in my case be that a neck sizing die or the profile crimp die mentioned above, it always turned out to be money out the door and nothing gained by the expenditure.

I seem to recall that I did have a Lyman die at some point when I was doing a small bit of cast boolit loading in a 30/06. The difference here is that the dies commonly in use for this bottle neck cartridge are made for loading "J" boolits and not cast, where in my case with the Hornady 45/70 dies, they are made to provide a case mouth flair suitable for trouble free cast boolit loading.

Maybe, I am just really lucky with the tools/dies I happen to buy, but I really doubt it!!!

Now, Ha Ha, You seem to be only loading the 45/70 cases at this point, but being as how in the seemingly normal progression of things You may progress to other and possibly bottle neck cartridges, I'll offer to send you or anyone a copy of my comments on the proper adjusting of a sizing die for bottle neck type cartridges.

Time after time I have seen posts with people asking for help in this area, so I got tired of reposting/typing the info and finaly made a "document" of it that I can just send out to peoples personal "E" address.

Unless RCBS ( and I like RCBS tools ) has recently made changes in their printed instructions, they are far and away off the mark. Hornady has a foot note in their printed material which comes much closer to proper sizing die set up and the reasons for it.

Later,

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Longwood]

I am one of those people that mix and match so I can get the dies to do exactly what I want.
I also like to invent and make stuff about as much as I do loading and shooting.
Right now, I have a gang set up, of four cheap presses in a row.
I bought some of these a few days back so I could modify, cheap Lee dies and use them at a powder through, flaring station, where I can dump a powder charge at the same place.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1221/1

[Lunarphase]

When ever I get that shaved ring, I bell the mouth a bit more and the problem ends.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yep Lunarphase!!!!!!!

In the consideration of brass life, bell/flair the minimum amount possible, but if your shaving boolit material, you ain't there yet.

CDOC