Proper loads for the S&W .500

[Ghost101]

First off, what a wonderful site this is.I've spent many nites reading, can't get enough info. Thank you
I.ve loaded up some rounds for my 6.5 in .500. I'm using boolits from Montana bullet works, they are 422 gr. WFN GC Heat Treated, with CCI #200 primers.I would like your ideas on the loadings before I take them to the range. Too high , too low or should be ok. Don't want to blow the gun or my hand up. I load ten rounds each, 5 for the chrono, an 5 for bullet placement on target.
1) 27.7 gr LilGun
2) 28.o gr LilGun
3) 28.5 gr LilGun
4) 29.0 gr LilGun
Am I good to go or do I need to pull the boolit puller out?
One other question I have is for sizer machines. Please remember that I haven't started casting as of yet. Is the Magma Star Sizer the best to buy? An will I be able to use GC's with this machine ? Don't want to buy something an learn later that I should have gotten something else.
I plan on using for now just a cast iron pot an a gas furnace, a dipper an two cavity mould.
Thank You again for the help an for just being here.
Ghost101

A dipper an a two cavity mould.

[tubb_ooh_lard]

howdy there ghost .

i have zero input on the .500

but as to the star .. yea they are the cream of the crop , but for a begining caster you could find better ways to spend your money that is a sizeable investment .

the lee push threw sizers are a great investment , cheap, easy to use and you can have them made in any size you want for about $25

if your mold drops noolits at the proper dia you realy have no need to size .
far as lubeing goes pan lubing is very simple to do

casting equipment , buy a good lead thermometer it will greatly shorten the learning curve , many of us here have been using a burner , pot and ladle for years and years

[Ghost101]

Thanks for your thoughts. I've thought about using one of those buy I would like to make the one purchase. Don't think I would have trouble selling if I got out of casting but will think on it. Thanks for the reply

[subsonic]

I have never loaded for a .500 S&W, nor used much Lil Gun, so I don't know how to answer you. CCI 200 primers? Are those large rifle? I would probably choose large magnum pistol primers. The best place to start is where the book shows the minimum load and do not excede max loads.

As far as sizers, I don't own a star. I've got a lot of Lee sizer dies for my press and a few Lyman or RCBS sizer dies to use in my RCBS LAM II lubrisizer. I *size* in the Lee dies and lube in the lubrisizer. This gives me very "true" boolits that aren't wiped off on one side like you can easily get with the lubrisizer alone.

The Star sizers look like a good deal for a guy shooting a lot of the same boolit, but from what I understand they are a little more tricky to swap over since you have to adjust where the dies lube the boolit by driving lead shot into some of the holes. They are also more picky about what lubes you can use and the dies cost more and are a little harder to come by.
I think they make boolits that are more "true" than the Lyman/RCBS lubrisizers if you're not doing like me and running boolits through the Lee first.

+1 on a simple lead thermometer for a quicker learning curve AND for safety! Most cheap pots can go over 1000deg and that is about where lead starts to vaporize and become very hazardous. Keep your pot below 850*F for safety and I get best casting results with WW metal around 750*F.

[Ghost101]

Again more to think about. I will at some point be casting for 15 different calibers. An setup time can sure take some of the fun out of the process in reloading. Any advise what to look for in a temp. gauge? Thank you for your reply

[ole 5 hole group]

I haven’t gone as low as you’re going with Lil’Gun, as I chronographed 32.0 grains with a 440 grain cast bullet and that flew 1,385fps with a rifle primer and 1,325fps with a WLP primer in a 5” barrel. My primer of choice with my 500 S&W is the WLP. I’ve found Lil’Gun to heat my barrel way more than any other powder, so I stopped using it.

If you ever load AA1680 in that 500 Smith, just make sure you don’t go below their recommended starting load, as you’ll get squibs if you do and some of them act like your hammer fell on a dead primer as there is no noise or recoil (if you’re wearing heavy ear muffs) and dropping the hammer on another fresh round could be a huge mistake.

For reduced loads I found 28 grains of IMR-4227 at 1,010fps and 15.0 grains of HS-6 at 928fps both with WLP’s and 440 grain cast bullets to be accurate.

[subsonic]

I just use the RCBS "meat thermometer" looking thermometer. I think NOE might have a digital one as well as other folks. As long as you know and keep an eye on the temp, any will work that go up to 1000*F.

[Ghost101]

I will give the AA powder a try with my 450gr. boolits. Which I haven't tried out as of yet. Haven't noticed the barrel over heating as I will fire off 5 rounds over my chrono, an then another 5 at the target. I take my time an make notes. Don't have an interest in reduced loads unless they perform the best down range.
Any thoughts on loads for a 500gr. an 600gr. boolit? It's a new toy that I just want to play with for now.

[Flinchrock]

"Don't have an interest in reduced loads"

Something tells me that you might in the future...

I can't help you much on your loads, except to recommend that you go by your books.

[Paulinski]

4759 is excellent powder for the .500 you can't blow your gun with it...

H110 is often used for hot loads.

Many people are saying that Lil'Gun causes flame cutting of the forcing cone as well as heats the gun quick...

I'm sure members with tons more knowledge that me will chime in soon...

More info (http://john-ross.net/sw500.php)

[ole 5 hole group]

A 500 grain cast in front of 32.0 grains of IMR-4227 will get you 1,220fps with the WLP primer, 33.0 grains pushes it 1,280fps and 35.0 grains gets 1,335fps. If you want to use Lil'Gun you'll find 27.0 grains will push the 500 grain cast 1,264fps with a rifle primer.

A 600 grain LFN in front of 29.0 grains of Lil'Gun should get you 1,349fps with a rifle primer.

I think you might find staying between 900fps and 1,200fps will give you all you should need for whatever you have in mind - however, if you feel the need for snap & speed playing around with H110 or WW296 will get you there and then some.

[Ghost101]

Thanks once again for the input. I will pay close attention to the LilGun an forcing cone. I have been using Starline brass which is setup for LR primers. Will try a round or two with this brass with LP primer only to see how it ignites. As far as the manuals go, they only list three boolit weights which don't match the weights that I'm reloading. Now my math skills aren't that great, which is why I've come here to ask for help. I try to get out to the range 2 time each week. One day for smaller calibers with many rds. down range. Another for testing. As far as flinch goes, play with a handgun with a flintlock or matchlock. Waite for the Boom, it's never quite the same ignition time, hold, hold, hold. A lot of fun to be had for sure.

[375RUGER]

If your not interested in reduced loads and want to use the lil' gun, then you need to be up around 36.0-37.0g and you'll be getting 1600-1700fps, this for the 400-425g boolits.

600g boolit - 27.0g Lil' Gun

650-700g boolit - 26.0g Lil' Gun

A good reduced load for the 650-700g boolit is 36.7g BLC2

Don't underestimate the reduced loads, a big slow moving boolit hits hard. Speed doesn't necessarily make things better, unless you want a lot of meat damage and a large exit wound.

[gofastman]

the 454, 460 and 500 (Im forgetting a few too, I'm sure) are all designed to use rifle primers

[Ghost101]

375 Ruger;
Very good point about the meat. Now my question is how do any of you come up with these loads. There has to be some kind of equation which I won't understand to get to these figures. I'm here to learn-not to teach. I've reloaded for many years, but have always stay with the books. Now with the cast boolits being outside these figures I'm very lost. Casting is somethimg I really want to get into now that I am retiring an will have the extra time.
Thanks to all once again for the help an understanding

[500MAG]

I agree with Tubb. I would go with the Lee lube & sizer. I cast for the 500 mag and that is what I use. I will tell you, I did have to change from dipping with a ladle to a bottom dispensing melter because the bullet is so large. I cast the 440 grain and use h110. It works for me.

[dnotarianni]

Lil-gun and H110 don't like light loads as you can get fizzles and detonation due to the space in the case. Those 2 powders are best with full house loads and use a glove cause they sting! If loading light loads with those 2 powders use a 410 felt wad to take up the extra space. 1680 is a good powder with most all size heads but I get my best results with unique. 20 grains with a 350 head or 16grains with a 475 head is a comfortable load. Unique also gives me the least deviation over the chrony, normally less then 20fps. Always try for 90% fill of of the case with what ever powder you use. I got 4 pages in my load book with diferent loads and unique is my favorite. If looking for soft loads under 900fps try Trail boss. You can fill the case and never go over 1000fps with a 325 head
Check out this link for great info on the 500.

http://john-ross.net/pdfs/maghist.pdf
Dave

[Ghost101]

Thanks for the web site. I bookmarked it to go to when time permits, like in the morning. I can't believe how dirty my gun was after getting home from the range today. Is LilGun know as a dirty powder. Also noticed some heavy burns on the top strap above the forcing cone. No pitting or rough spots but it took some work to remove. I know I was warned about LittleGun but had already loaded some fifty rds. It had to much of a spread over the chrono. Each round is trickeled. ?? I used 2400 in my .44 mag an Titegroup in my .45 Colt with good performance. Big gun show( for the LA area) this weekend. Hopefully they will have some casting equipment to snap up. I will take some advise from some of you an give the Lee sizer a chance.
I'd like to thank all of you for your help an what a wonderful place this is. I like how everyone treats each other here even when disagreeing.

[dnotarianni]

Lilgun and H110 will cause forcing cone erosion and show some flame cutting after a lot of use. 2400 will work in the 500 but be careful not to double charge. I have used H335 and H322 with good results but had to use a mag primer to light it all off as I had some unburned powder with plain rifle primers

[paul h]

Can't comment on the loads I don't currently shoot a 500 S&W, but I have cast, loaded and shot 1000's of magnum handgun bullets in 44, 45, 475 and .500 and .512. As to the star lube sizer and a two cavity mold being ladle filled, to me that's like a formula one paddle shift transmission mated to a ford flathead engine.

To me the main advantage of the star sizer is the speed at which you can lube and size bullets. If you're casting a 4 cavity mold, or a pair or 2 cavity molds, then consider the star to speed up your production. But if you're not planning on cranking out bullets by the 1000, then I think you'll find that a lyman or rcbs lube sizer works just fine. I've shot cast bullets lube/sized from my old lyman 450 that have outstanding accuracy, both plain base and gas checked. It's wanting to speed up production that has the star on my to buy list.

[SoCalLove]

Quick question for reloading, I just mounted my scope and looking to hit 300 yards.
I've tried in the past with iron sights with a few hits but most of my shots deviate quite far from the target, I'm shooting out of my S&W JR500 5" barrel. What can I do to correct this mistake? My powder is right on for every load, I use the same primers, and same loading technique. How should I crimp the bullets? I've been shooting 460 grain with gas check using H110 powder. Please give me some tips on how to make a more accurate load. I was shooting standing up with 2 hands, I know i'm not great but the deviation is pretty big, I just want to be able to correct that.

Also any recommendations for bullet weight and powder for long distance accuracy is appreciated, I bought my bullets from Matt's Bullets.

Thanks,
Socallove

[dnotarianni]

Quick question for reloading, I just mounted my scope and looking to hit 300 yards.
I've tried in the past with iron sights with a few hits but most of my shots deviate quite far from the target, I'm shooting out of my S&W JR500 5" barrel. What can I do to correct this mistake? My powder is right on for every load, I use the same primers, and same loading technique. How should I crimp the bullets? I've been shooting 460 grain with gas check using H110 powder. Please give me some tips on how to make a more accurate load. I was shooting standing up with 2 hands, I know i'm not great but the deviation is pretty big, I just want to be able to correct that.

Also any recommendations for bullet weight and powder for long distance accuracy is appreciated, I bought my bullets from Matt's Bullets.

Thanks,
Socallove

First start at 50 yards for group and then move to 100 yds for group before you go to 300 yards. Heavy roll crimp is best for concindency. Any way you look at it there will be considerable drop from 100 to 300 yards. Chrony your loads then use a ballistic calculator to figure out your bullet drop. The most consistent loads will be the most accurate.
Dave

[paul h]

Work up your loads as you would a rifle, from a solid bench rest. I've found 50yds is a good distance to work up loads. You will see groups tighten up or get worse as powder charges are changed. Can't say what will be best in your gun.

Once you know what the gun can do, then you need to put in the practice. Consistantly hitting targets at 300 yds offhand with a revolver takes an exceptional shot. I've seen a buddy consistantly hit a ram silouette @ 200 yds shooting an iron sighted 475 linebagh offhand. I've been happy when I can do that shooting a revolver from a rest.

[500MAG]

Hey dnotarianni, do you have the load data for H335 and H322 using 440gr. cast?
Thanks

[subsonic]

Quick question for reloading, I just mounted my scope and looking to hit 300 yards.
I've tried in the past with iron sights with a few hits but most of my shots deviate quite far from the target, I'm shooting out of my S&W JR500 5" barrel. What can I do to correct this mistake? My powder is right on for every load, I use the same primers, and same loading technique. How should I crimp the bullets? I've been shooting 460 grain with gas check using H110 powder. Please give me some tips on how to make a more accurate load. I was shooting standing up with 2 hands, I know i'm not great but the deviation is pretty big, I just want to be able to correct that.

Also any recommendations for bullet weight and powder for long distance accuracy is appreciated, I bought my bullets from Matt's Bullets.

Thanks,
Socallove

The JR500 has the 1:10 twist, so you should be able to heave something heavier than 460gr out there. Probably a full charge of H110 or AA1680 (work up to it and watch groups) will be accurate.

In general, you need to be able to hit a much smaller target up close than you can at 300yds before you can have a chance of hitting out there.

Practice is probably the biggest key.

A GOOD roll crimp can help, but if you overcrimp, you can kill accuracy. Run your dial calipers over the case lengthwise and if the needle swings over your crimp, it's too much.

[Ghost101]

dnotarianni, thank you for the link to John Ross. Very helpful. Now I need to figure out how to run a DOS program on my Mac in order to use " Suggest A Load ".The quest never ends. I plan on getting the larger capacity molds as I learn how to cast. Plus I like flathead Fords. A paddle shift in my kids ratrod would be a source of envy from his buddy's. lol

[dnotarianni]

Hey dnotarianni, do you have the load data for H335 and H322 using 440gr. cast?
Thanks

Don't laugh at me but going by John Ross I measure where the bullet would crimp in the case and then fill the case to 90-95% full. ( I can see the eyes rolling already!) H335 and H322 are slow burning powders and you can not over pressure the gun with these powders. I had to use a mag primer to stop unburned powder with my 6.5 barrel with these 2 powders. Was planning on compiling all my loads this weekend into a spread sheet and can pm them to you next week if no disasters come up. I used these to powders with 460gr, 475gr, and 630gr heads but I still like Unique best. Anyway you cut it 450+ grain bullet at 1200+ fps or a 630gr head at 1000 fps is a handfull to hang on to:holysheep
dave

[ole 5 hole group]

Quick question for reloading, I just mounted my scope and looking to hit 300 yards.
I've tried in the past with iron sights with a few hits but most of my shots deviate quite far from the target, I'm shooting out of my S&W JR500 5" barrel. What can I do to correct this mistake? My powder is right on for every load, I use the same primers, and same loading technique. How should I crimp the bullets? I've been shooting 460 grain with gas check using H110 powder. Please give me some tips on how to make a more accurate load. I was shooting standing up with 2 hands, I know i'm not great but the deviation is pretty big, I just want to be able to correct that.

Also any recommendations for bullet weight and powder for long distance accuracy is appreciated, I bought my bullets from Matt's Bullets.

Thanks,
Socallove



Well, I wish you luck at 300 yards with that scoped JR offhand. I also shoot the JR and have tried my hand at an 18” gong at 300 yards and all I can say is I have a tough time hitting it shooting off a rest – there’s just a lot of space around that iron creature at that distance. I see a lot of benched scoped rifles missing that gong at that distance on a regular basis.

What I would recommend is sight in at 100 yards for group and do this from a good benched position. Once you have established your load at that distance try your hand offhand and that will be the tale of your skill level. If you’ve got the right stuff, just adjust your sights/scope and have at it, otherwise come back to 25 yards and practice shooting offhand at that distance until you can consistently shoot under 3”, then move to 50 yards and shoot offhand until you can get under 5” consistently and at that point you can start lobbing and at least bracket your target pretty good at the longer ranges.

When I shot for load development with the JR, I shot at 50 & 100 yards using the Leupold 2.5X8 and had the power set at 8X rested. I found I could shoot better groups at 8X than I could at 2X to 4X as I could time my let-off by watching that crosshair dance across my aiming point (I could also call my “mis-timed” shots) – at 2X to 4X it seemed like I was as steady as a rock but my groups didn’t show it. The 2.5X8 leupold has a large objective lens (32mm) and you’ll have a time mounting it – removing the front sight will make things easier).

I don’t know how you’re going to get your timing down any time soon using a scoped revolver at that distance shooting offhand. Takes years of daily practice for some of us to shoot consistent 4” offhand groups at 50 yards and longer than that to get a wee bit under 4” groups at 50 yards offhand.

If you want to try another sighting system, I’d recommend the red dot – I have the Leupold DeltaPoint mounted on my JR and it’s a lot better for me than irons but I find there’s still a lot of space around those small targets at 100 yards and beyond, so it’s no cure for the shakes but better than irons.

[SoCalLove]

thank you for replying, I guess I got lucky with those 2 hits, the target was a large sheet metal painted red about the size of a door.
what process do you take to load your ammo to shoot 4" groups at 50 yards? how hard do you crimp ?

[ole 5 hole group]

Being lucky is the name of the game at long distance shooting unless you have paid your dues and then some. Shooting the 500 Smith scoped and benched involves being very consistent with your grip and bag placement relative to the revolver. Don’t change your grip at all and use your off-thumb to cock the hammer and come back to the same position and pressure with that off-hand for support. That applies to all revolvers IMHO. You will easily shoot under 2” at 50 yards benched and scoped if the revolver is right and your load is up to it. I shoot off-hand the same – off-hand thumb cocks the hammer, with the only difference being the group size – off-hand groups can sometimes be huge but it’s not the revolver’s fault.

I probably use the same process as you do for reloading, except I’m a little anal from my brenchrest days and uniform the primer pocket and flash holes on my brass after trimming all to the same length. The military shooters gave up on that procedure, so there’s probably no benefit to be gained, but I need to do it to “feel” right when I step to the line – that’s just me.

I use the Redding carbide die set and turn the expander plug down so it doesn’t expand the case and just puts a slight bell on the case mouth – I think it gives me more consistent case tension and I use a moderate roll crimp on cast bullets.

My JR500 came with tight cylinder throats and I had to have the throats opened up to shoot small groups benched. Check yours to see if you have good cylinder throats, as one other person I’m acquainted with that owns a JR500 also had tight throats and had them opened up before it shot to his liking. I really don’t like H110 for the 500 Smith, as it’s too snappy for me and you need to run H110 on the high side and I just don’t enjoy shooting 50 to 100 rounds of 500 Smith full bore.

[Ghost101]

I may not really need the star sizer rig right
at this moment in my casting, but there is nothing like having a well made perhaps beautiful tool to work with. Silly maybe but I like my tools. Maybe it's true that a fool an his money are soon departed. Lol

[Ghost101]

I will look forward to your spread sheet. Thanks again

[paul h]

You'll never regret getting the star lube sizer. My point was simply for the same cost of the star, you can get a used lyman 450 or 4500, and a pair of custom molds. I just think you might prefer to build up your collection of molds to see what shoots best for you and in your gun. Then once you want to crank up production upgrade to a star.

[Ghost101]

Paul h
Thank you for putting me back to sound thinking. Of course your right, an I will have to keep telling myself that. I need to play with the molds I have an figure out where to go with them first. I have already ordered some Lee push thru sizers from Midway. But the Star is on my short list. Thank you

[olafhardt]

My plinking load is 6.4 grains of Unique behind the Lee modern minie,forward or reversed. The 50 caliber black powder projetiles that are true 50 caliber work in 500 S&W but you can use alloys harder than pure lead.I use ACWW plus a little tin.I would guess that up to 10 grains of ANY fast powder would work with any cast 50 cal projectile or a handfull of rocks ( not really).