range report .475 bfr

[5shotbfr]

[smilie=w: wow is this thing fun to shoot [smilie=w:

ok i suppose i better start at the begining , the lee mold .. it took me awhile to get my heat and cadence in sync to get good boolits . out of the 120 or so i made i only kept about the last 50 , but i think i have it figured out now so things should go smoothly tonight when i cast some more .. .i pan lubed with some carnuba red i found in my stash ... and yes i lubed up the bottom crimp groove too after seeing just how little lube the boolit carries

when i find my usb cable ill post a pic of the boolits

the loads .. i had a small episode of .. i have a new gun i have to shoot it , happen to me so i didnt make any attempt at load development , i loaded 50 up with 24 grns of 296 and cci magnum primers .
i did not go over board on the crimp i'd guess it right between a light to medium crimp .. no issues with jumping crimp in 50 rounds

recoil ... pleasant is all i can say ... i dont see it being a problem for my large hands even at full loading ... my saa colt thumps me worse with 300 grn 45lc's

barrel torque on the other hand is going to take some getting used to .

no leading no issues , just a whole bunch fun to shoot .. i was sad i only had 50 rounds to shoot , i let a friend shoot 10 rounds ... i may have made a mistake , i had to pry it out of his hand

my 50 yd targets .. sorry about the size i scanned them and dont know how to reduce the size .
the black is 5 inches , next time ill put up a backer to get clean holes ,
off a bench resting my forearms on a bag
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/stephen4570/IMG_0001-2.jpg

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/stephen4570/IMG_0001.jpg

i lost a couple on the bottem edge
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/stephen4570/IMG.jpg

[44man]

Not a bad start. It should get better as you work loads. When you get to around 26 gr it will be tighter.
I have not loaded the Lee 400 for a long time. I can't remember what groove I seated to and like a dummy, I never wrote it down. [smilie=1:

[5shotbfr]

to say i am just pleased as punch is an understatement .
on a good day i can shoot on average about 3inches @50 yards with iron sights so yea i am just tinkled pink with this .. first loads and new revolver things can only improve .

a crappy cell phone pic .... i need a wide angle lens to get one of the grin on my face ....:guntootsmiley:

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/stephen4570/1338080133.jpg

[subsonic]

Nice! Things will only get better.

What alloy were you using?

Glad you did not have leading.

Jim, the Lee boolit won't fit with it crimped in the bottom groove. The load I have from you a while back is 26.5gr of 296 sparked with a Fed155.

5shotbfr, be careful crimping. If you crimp too much, the ammo won't fit in the gun. The chambers are that tight.

[5shotbfr]

i just used plain old wheel weights , air cooled as long as i dont have any leading issues i wont change anything .

im not crimping anywhere near hard enough to bulge the case , enough to just barely make contact with the bullet

i am almost relying on neck tension more then the crimp to keep everything in place.
if i was to load up some for self defense or hunting i would try a bit harder crimp just to be sure of not having any problems

[44man]

Yes, my best load was 26.5 gr of 296 but it is always wise to work up with a new gun, I just go 1/2 gr at a time.
I have none of the Lee's loaded but I had some .480 brass I played with so the crimp position escapes me, I did load long in .480 brass. I did not like how they shot.
Although every BFR .475 I have measured had the same dimensions, maybe it is safe to just go to the best load.
5shot, try water dropping, it improved my accuracy. Let them age a while before loading. That brass really takes a bite on a boolit. Try to maintain .476".
Do not crimp harder, you can't with a Lee boolit and the chicken scratch grooves. Brass will tend to bulge.
It takes a while to get used to the recoil and the torque with the .475 is real. I had the gun turn twice under my Ultra Dot with Warne rings.

[subsonic]

i am almost relying on neck tension more then the crimp to keep everything in place.


That is the right thing to do. The crimp has very little to do with boolits pulling, more to do with them pushing into the case with a lever gun.

Some day I'm going to do an experiment where I seat a bunch of .44 mags and measure seating pressure. Then I'm only going to crimp some properly, some over crimped, and some un-crimped. Then measure what it takes to pull each one vs what the seating pressure was. I have other things I want to test as well, but haven't quite figured out how to do it.

I did a small test like this on .38 wadcutters where I crimped heavily over the front of the boolit with it seated all the way in the case on some. Crimp had almost no effect on the effort it took to pull the boolits. The biggest factors I found were these: How much lube was smeared on the boolit, how much soot was in the case neck, and how strong the brass grabbed the case from neck tension - which is dependent on the specifics of that particular piece of brass and how many times it has been fired.

I also suspect, but have not confirmed that the shape and depth of the crimp groove on the boolit are factors. A big keith-type crimp groove is going to take a much healthier crimp than the little scratches Lee puts on some of their boolits.

I can guarantee that the way the case is sized and expanded and how much bearing length is in the case are other factors, as well as boolit SIZE vs CASE neck ID. Larger boolits in the same case have more neck tension.

Ditto on what Jim said. Try some water dropped WW and see what you get.

[ole 5 hole group]

Accuracy might get better for you but don't feel bad if it doesn't, as 3" benched the way you do it at 50 yards with iron sights is a fine group.

Put a scope on that puppy and rest the forward part of the frame into the sand bag and you’ll find out just how good your load is. Then you can play hell trying to duplicate it with iron sights.

[44man]

Subsonic, I did those tests with crimps, all the same loads and tension. Uncrimped needed shot single shot or boolits would pull.
Remember they were all heavy hunting loads.
There was not a lot of difference in accuracy if I remember, some POI changes.
Only different case tensions from batch to batch would move POI but really had little affect on group size as long as each batch was even among themselves. There could be a 10" change in POI from light tension to hard but groups did not in themselves go haywire.
At one point my .475 with just a tiny difference in tension actually made almost one hole with a little vertical stringing.
The .44 was the worst trying to get them all the same or even close. Some boolits would almost fall in the case and others needed pushed in hard. However, even the light (Still enough to hold a boolit.) tension boolit shot good groups if shot by themselves, dare not mix batches or you really do get a 10" group.
The strangest things I ever shot were factory cast with full profile, choke of death crimps. 2 or 3 shots would lock up a gun from boolit pull. I feel they were crimped so hard in tight profile dies, case tension was broken.
Here is a .475, 50 yard group where I measured a small difference in tension.

[5shotbfr]

i just got done casting .
i water dropped about 200 boolits to age for a couple weeks and harden up .
and about another 100 air cooled to shoot right now .

come morning time i will start loading for some actual load development .
ok why lie .. in the morning i am going to tell myself its load development when in reality is purely for the fun

looks like i'll be casting again tomarow night

[44man]

I have been trying for weeks to cast---or should I say to get up some gumption! [smilie=l: Been too busy, got the barn roof fixed, fixed the neighbors mower, cut grass (needs cut again) and then a storm went through last night, took hours to pick up all the branches. I made arrows for a friend and we measured the velocity of his bows.
I have not shot for weeks and I don't know how you fellas find time. I am retired and have no time at all! :killingpc
5shot, let us know how the WD boolits work.

[Lefty SRH]

I believe in good neck tension also. But how do you get more without going to a larger sized boolit? I feel I could use a little more on my .480.

[subsonic]

More neck tension? Use a smaller expander in your expanding/belling die.

Take the existing expander and chuck it in a drill or drill press. Hold sandpaper, a file, crocus cloth, etc against it while it spins. You want at least .003" under the boolit diameter you intend to use. I have made a couple that only "just touch" the sized brass on the inside to true them up and center the bell.

Also, make sure a sized but not expanded case is at least that small to start with.

Some brass is not as good as other brass. You can feel the difference when seating. Try to keep good brass separate from the rest.

[ole 5 hole group]

Subsonic's method is the method I use on all my straight walled brass - if you use Hornady dies, you'll find you won't be able to modify the expander plug, as it's pressed in. I use the Redding die but others that are removable will work just as well.

[subsonic]

The Hornady dies seem to not need any modification because of the short length of the expander plug. It bells and only expands a short section of brass.

Wish I could see what the plug measures in my .475 dies...

[44man]

That is the trouble with many expander plugs. They are too long and too large in diameter. By the time you get to the bell, the brass has been expanded past the boolit base and might even expand the case were the brass thickens.
The Hornady only goes in about 3/8" and is why I like a harder boolit. The boolit is the final expander.
My .44 BR dies use collars and I have an assortment. I just have to bell the case mouth, no expander is used.
Sounds strange to soft boolit shooters though! [smilie=l:

[5shotbfr]

44 man
it is easy for me to find the time to load and cast... being single has its advantages

i loaded up 100 rounds this morning .. 25 each at 24.5 , 25 , 25.5 and 26 grns of 296
when i finaly got to the range expecting it to be empty due to the 90+ temps i was shocked to find it to crowded to do any real load devopment .

so i set up a swinger at 50 yds and 100 yds next door on the rifle range to just enjoy myself .
first shot at my 50 yrd swinger sent it flying .. broke both the chains and twisted the frame up pretty good .
the dang thing had held up realy good using 300 grn .45's at 1000 fps , i guess the 400 grn .475's was just a bit to much .

i started shooting at the 100 yd swinger ( 8 inch ) i dont have proof to say this for sure but i think the 25.5 is likely to be my better load .. as i had 23 hits .. versus 11 hits with the 24.5 grains .. 18 with 25 grains and 16 with 26 grains

26 grains is to hot for either my alloy or lube as i found a bit of leading after shooting them

[44man]

That's what it is all about, having fun!
Watch those targets. I used stainless aircraft bolts to hold my chain together, tough stuff and I understand they cost $6 each and that was 20 years ago. The big revolver just sheared them. :bigsmyl2:
My poor chicken at 100 yards is on the ground and it is too hot to work on it.
I don't know if I am tired or not, too many pains to tell. I worked all day in the heat and my central air is broken. :veryconfu

[5shotbfr]

i learned a couple things today .

1. the .475 is a whole lot of fun to shoot

2. i need to find a better source for lead .. this thing is to much fun to shoot

3. holy cripes charlie brown this thing is way to much fun

4. if you want to shoot anything else on the same range trip , shoot them before the bfr , or they dont seem as fun

yea i went out and put another 100 rounds threw my bfr today , dont ask about groups as i decided that as long as i can hit what i'm aiming at who cares how small the groups .

lol not realy .. i shot up the last of my air cooled boolits today just to have fun .. i shot 75 rounds at my 8 inch gong at 100 yds and hit it 64 times with iron sights .. pretty good shooting for me .
a fellow i was shooting with put the other 25 rounds down range at it and rung it 19 times

my quenched boolits should be as hard as they'll get by next weekend and ill start some actual load development

[44man]

Put up some bottles of water at 100 yards. My grandson drinks the larger bottles of soda so I use them.
Try some gallon plastic jugs too. Juice bottles work fine.
It is something to see the energy when you hit them.
I walk my range and find caps from bottles as far as 50 yards away.
I hate paper targets! [smilie=w:

[subsonic]

My .475 BFR is definitely my current favorite handgun by far.