Lung or shoulder shot on elk

[elrotundamundo]

I am new to the forum but have been shooting cast bullets for many years, mostly in 44 magnum which I no longer own. Currently I have a large frame Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt with Hogue grips and a 4 5/8" barrel. I shoot both midrange and heavy loads cast from my Lee 452-252-SWC mould and usually cast with straight clip-on wheelweights. I never get leading even with the load from John Linebaughs website using W296 at a guessed velocity of 1350-1400 FPS. (I don't yet have a chronograph) Quite a handful but the grips make it manageable.

I will be hunting elk in Northern Idaho this fall in the "any weapon" season which is antlered only. The area is heavily timbered so ranges are usually short. I will carry my Ruger as well as a .270. If I get an opportunity, I would like to take an elk with the 45 if I can get within my self-imposed 50 yard limit.

My question is, should I go for a lung shot and plan on tracking a ways, or would the bullet at that velocity be adequate for a shoulder shot, hopefully breaking both shoulders on a broadside shot.

Thanks

[waksupi]

Go for the lung shot.

Welcome aboard!

[mpbarry1]

Welcome aboard. I don't think it matters what Norh American game you are hunting. Hit em in the engine compartment and they go down. Lungs/heart. Thats what i tach ny kids and i wont allow them a head shot.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Either place will result in a dead animal, personally I would take a shoulder shot. Handguns don’t screw up much meat, and a shoulder shot usually drops them quicker in my experience. Although hunting is hunting and sometimes you have to take the shot that suits the situation best, and not rely on any hard and fast rule.

[horsesoldier]

Lung shot. Where in Idaho are you hunting at? I hunt around deary some.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Just this Ol'Coot's opinion, but I think with a handgun I just might go for the shoulder.

Saying that, I am a behind the shoulder shooter when possible.

However, with the handgun the shoulder might be a better choice.

With my 45/70 and the 465gr WFN cast, my choice is the behind the shoulder although I took a really big cow last year with a quartering shot that struck the near shoulder.

If you getting reasonable velocity and shooting a WFN style cast, the handgun should do well with eather shot.

I'm getting a touch over 1300fps with a 310gr LBT/LFN from my 5.5" RUGER RedHawk and figure it would be a good critter getter.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Wolfer]

I wouldn't hesitate to take a shoulder shot on elk with those loads but having hunted elk considerably I usually take the shot they give me.

[sixshot]

I've taken them with the 41, 44 & 45 with both shots you mention & both will work great with heavy cast slugs. I've probably taken more with the double lung shot & an exit, but as mentioned earlier you better take what you can get, I've hunted the whole season many times for one shot, I don't get to fussy, I know my loads will reach the vitals from about any angle.
Shot a large cow once with one of my 41 maggies, she was walking almost straight towards me, just a slight angle. The 230 gr Keith slug hit just behind the right front shoulder, traveled all the way through her body & exited in front of the left hip. She ran in a tight little circle for 5-6 seconds & realized she was dead & fell over.
Wish I could post photo's but photobucket has changed something "again" & I can't show them. Used to be able to move the curser over the photo & the IMG would show up just below it, I would right click, copy & then paste the photo's, any help out there! Swear words!

Dick

[runfiverun]

i hope they didn't change too much.
Dick.
i'll get little girl to see what's different and let you know.

i'd take either shot or a front on, if i had to.
the one thing cast has in it's favor is penetration.

[Dale53]

Sixshot;
Photobucket is still working the same way for me. This picture was just posted with this comment:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/img086.jpg

This is the Mihec version of the RCBS 45-270-SAA which is my .45 Colt medicine (weighs 285 grs in my alloy) ahead of a healthy dose of H110. It should handle an Elk just fine if the bullet is placed well at any reasonable range.

FWIW
Dale53

[waksupi]

These guys are right about taking the shot offered in north Idaho, same as NW Montana. Ever heard of alligator elk? Those are the ones that stand in heavy brush, and all you can see is from the eyes, up. There is some serious nasty country to hunt. Always take into consideration, can I get it out, if I shoot it?

[lead chucker]

First of all welcome to the forum.
I like the lung shot a big fat bullet like that you should have blood shooting out both sides. Animals don't run far with holes in there lungs. When I was first learning to hunt my dad told me to shoot them in the shoulder that would drop them on the spot and they usually wouldn't get up. Where we hunted there was a lot of presure lots of other hunters. You shoot a deer and it runs 100 yards some one else might shoot it and claim it. It's happened. But were I am now in Alaska you are lucky if you run into your hunting partner much less any one else. The deer we have here are not that big so I try not to waist meat to blood shooting.

[lead chucker]

Waksupi that is so true seems the older I get the more I think about how far i walk. I will not hike in any farther than I feel comfortable dragging something out.

[elrotundamundo]

Thanks all for the great information. horsesoldier, I will be in Unit 4 between Rose Lake and St. Maries.

[missionary5155]

Good morning and Welcome elrot...
I use that same boolit in my 45 Colt RBH's . May never get to pop an elk but I know what it will do on big ILLionois whitetails. Your velocity is not much different than the old BP loadings for 45 caliber rifles and they were well noted for dropping any critter they faced. That is normally my stick of measurement for revolvers. If my load can equal a well proven BP cartrige load then I am assured I have a winner.
Mike in Peru till Thursday

[jmsj]

These guys are right about taking the shot offered in north Idaho, same as NW Montana. Ever heard of alligator elk? Those are the ones that stand in heavy brush, and all you can see is from the eyes, up. There is some serious nasty country to hunt. Always take into consideration, can I get it out, if I shoot it?

I hunt Elk in the Sange de Cristo range in New Mexico and it can be steep, over
timbered and rocky. In some of those places it does not take an elk to walk very far to make recovering an animal very, very difficult. The shoulder shot ruins a little more meat but it beats me and my 80 year old father tracking,quartering and packing one up a sheer face or out of a timbered area that we can't skid one out of.
If the animal is in an agreeable location I take the heart/lung shot, if not, I will take the shoulder shot.
jmsj

[mart]

In many instances it is the elk and not the hunter that determines whether a broadside lung shot or a quartering shot with a shoulder in it is taken. In a perfect world the animal always gives us the classic true broadside shot enabling us to slip a bullet in just behind the shoulder, puncturing both lungs and leaving a nice exit wound and ample blood trail just in case they don't drop on the spot. In the real world we are faced with the true broadside, slightly quartered to, slightly quartered away and everything up to straight on and straight away. I am fond of neither of the latter two. My favorite is the slightly quartered away with the off shoulder in the path of the bullet. That allows for the back of the on side lung, heart and off side lung to be hit as well as buckling the off side shoulder (hopefully). With a revolver the meat damage should be minimal. The quartered on is a good shot as well.

Ross Seyfried wrote an excellent article in "Successful Hunter" several years back in which he thoroughly examined and explained the practice of putting a shoulder in the shot. His contention, and I agree, is that all the good stuff is between the shoulders. A shot that includes one or both shoulders is going to disrupt all that good stuff and bring about a quick kill. There is nothing wrong with a true broadside shot that takes out both lungs but my preference is to include at least one shoulder along with those lungs, especially on elk and larger game.

Mart

[Larry Gibson]

Neither, there is no guarentee of a good shot with either the lung shot or the leg shot unless the elk is broadside. A broadside shot is maneagible to wait for in open country at longer range when the elk doesn't know you're there. But in thick timber at close range most often the shot is the one presented and must be taken quickly. The elk may be facing you, quartered right or left still facing you or quartered facing away. If moving the leg will be moving and the size of the "lung" area will be changing with the leg moving back and forth.

Instead of considering the lung or leg shot I suggest you simply envision a soccor ball low between the front legs against the brisket. That is where the heart is, where the thickest part of the lungs are and where the major veins and arteries run in and out of the heart, especially to and from the brain. Regardless of how the elk is standing put the bullet through that soccor ball and it will be a done deal in short order. When looking at deer, antelope and elk envisiong that soccor ball and guestimate where you would aim. With that shot the position of the legs or a clear shot at the lungs becomes irrelevent. Uphill, downhill, level, from a high stand, angling, quartering, etc. put the bullet through the soccor ball and the animal is yours.

Your bullet with the load mentioned will have all the penetration needed with the exception of a Texas Heart shot which do not recomend at all. If quarteing at all the bullet will probably take one leg at least. The damage in that area from the bullet will be the most extensive of any shot and, with the exception of a head or spine shot will put the elk down the fastest. The internal damage to the heart, the thickest part of the lungs , the arteries and veins will drop the blodd pressure in very short order.

With the handgun on elk with any type of shot taken don't wait to see the results of the 1st shot. Imediately cock the revolver and take a 2nd and even a 3rd shot if possible. Good luck hunting.

Larry Gibson

[dualsport]

.270 won't kill an elk, everybody knows that. Get a 30-06.

[waksupi]

Something to think about if you have not hunted elk before. Many times, they will be moving when you see them. Carry a cow call with you. This will generally stop them dead in their tracks, and give you a standing shot. I have stopped herds repeatedly with cow calls, even with people standing in full view, and firing rifles. Even a wounded elk will stop usually, so they will not travel so far before they bleed out. In my experience, a good shot through the lungs will put an elk down in 30 yards or less.

[1Shirt]

Probably shoulder!
1Shirt!

[onesonek]

I have no reason to answer on this subject, as I have never hunted Elk with the witha .45 Colt or any cast in a handgun as of yet.
But if I were to, I would opt for a bit heavier cast boolit. 300 or 325 grainer, even if it cost me alittle velocity. Just a wee bit more momentum can't hurt.
But then what do I know,,,lol

[MT Gianni]

Given the perfect shot hit both lungs and break the off shoulder. Given a less than perfect shot put it down. That includes shoulder shots, lung shots, breaking the tail bone on a 15 -25 yard shot facing away and all but head and neck shots. The head can move too quickly and the neck mane will disguise the vertebrae. Re-read where Larry Gibson's Volleyball is and do not shoot to the rear of that unless you are certain that you can break the spine. I don not believe that an occasional Elk hunt is where you shoot and observe. Do not herd shoot but put lead in that animal until it is on the ground and the head is down.

[nanuk]

I really like Larry G's way of thinking

although, many times the situation will dictate the shot

but if you can hit that volleyball, you will have a dead animal in short order

a friend of mine took down a 2.5yo bull moose, at 85 yds, with an SKS shooting 125gr SP's bullet entered behind the leg, exited off side through the brisket. Moose walked 14 paces and laid down dead.
The Volleyball shot worked there just fine

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I'll be right up front and admit my experience of taking moose is on the short side.

That is sad, as I keep applying for my once in a life time cow permit since my bull tag was filled years back.

However, my limited experience indicates the possibility that POSSIBLY a moose might be one of the easiest critters of that size to put down that walks North America.

My wife's Bull was taken the next Fall, and I never did find the reason for it's death.

I know that sounds real funny, but that is the trueth.

Lots more to this story, but to much and long to tell here.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[leadman]

I taken at least 15 elk here in Az. One was with a 44mag SBH with the Lee 310gr RFN at 1050 fps.
Larry's discription of the volleyball is a good one for stopping the elk close to where you shot it. The one with the 44mag I shot just behind the volleyball and it ran for almost 200 yards with both lungs punctured.
I shot a running elk last fall at 20 yards with a 30-06 but was just a little high and only hit lungs and it ran for about 150 yards before it stopped. It was still standing when I closed the gap so finished it off.

If I need to stop an elk where it is at or close I try to take out at least one front leg and the heart.

There is alot of meat on an elk and if you hit the large joint in the leg this will add to the projectiles going into the vitals but the meat in this area is marginal so no great lose. Better to lose a little marginal meat than the whole elk.

[jp1]

Interesting post and a good question. Thank you.

[Steel185]

just practice and hit it in the heart. thats what i did, it sorta stood there and then fell. Every other organ perfect condition. 70yds, ruger 480

At 50 yards (your goal) you should be able to practice and have a pretty tight group. But like above, go with the angle you're given.

[MT Gianni]

Heart shot animals do weird things. IME, they generally stop right there but on occasion take off at a dead run, [probably the source of the term dead run] and drop at the end of it. On a rare occasion they just wander off as though un-hit.

[bowfin]

I vote for heart/lung shot, as I am a meat hunter. Don't take a chance on ruining one or both front quarters.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

bowfin,

I generally agree with you in most all cases.

However, considering the O.P. was talking about possibly taking an elk with a handgun, and with me possibly reading something into the picture because this is the Cast Boolit Forum, and hopefully a good cast boolit, guess I'd go for the shoulder in this case.

The handgun velocity is lower then a rifle in most cases, and PROVIDING the boolit has proven integrity and design, should give much less damage then a typical "J" boolit into the shoulders.

Now, from what I have seen, if I was taking an elk with my 45/70 and the 465gr WFN cast boolit I'm sending out at 1600 - 1700fps my shot of choice is behind the shoulders. That boolit is an awesome critter getter!!!!!!! No need to choose to mess up good meat if I can avoid it.

With a "J" boolit, it is behind the shoulders without question being my first choice.

My elk last year was taken with a quartering shot, as said not my first choice, and that big boolit took out the near side shoulder, a rib and just kept go'in and go'in and go'in ------ AWESOME but still better with a side to side shot behind the shoulders.

CDOC

[bowfin]

Ol Coot,

I'll agree with your advice based on your experiences. Only a fool would argue with experience...and success!

Truth be told, I wouldn't lock in on what I would or wouldn't do beforehand, since the situations and shots offered aren't always what we plan on beforehand.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Bowfin,

With age creaping up on me really fast, I doubt I'll ever get much if any hands on experience with a handgun on any critter, much less an elk or moose.

So, with that in mind, I am talking about hedging my bet with the handgun.

Now with the 45/70, Woooooooooo that is a different story!

In my .44mag, I am shooting a 310gr LBT/LWN from my 5.5" Redhawk at just a touch over 1300fps. so guess it is not a slouch, but like I said unless and until I get that personal experience I'll hedge the bet just to make sure the critter stays close by.

Sure wish I'd get that cow moose permit, as there could be a good chance to get in close on one of those. However, just might have a problem pull'in that 45/70 out of my hands! :bigsmyl2:

CDOC

[onesonek]

I should have added,,,imo, a lot depends on where and what the terrain is like. I would figure either placement to be lethal, just a dead on shoulder shot is more likely to put the animal down on the spot. This possibly keeping the animal from getting somplace I don't want it to go.

[TCLouis]

I always go to what someone told me years ago (after I had to track something (snaller than elk) a ways.

"Keep putting boolits in til they go down.

Several well placed shots are bound to be better than one hole.