Are you drilling out your primer flash holes for BP?

[Texantothecore]

I haven't seen this discussed and couldn't find anything on it through search...

Are you drilling out your flash holes (#41 drill) when you go to BP?

I am shooting a .45-70 and I expect to be fully BP in short order.


Man, it has been a long time since I posted a thread. I need to get with the program.

[25ring]

Waste of time.---FWIW---Mike.

[oldracer]

Since I have a set number of cases and it was suggested when I started to make the holes all the same size I did drill them. This was mentioned in the Black Powder Cartridge magazine as an easy thing to do to possibly help accurate loads. That was to eliminate a variable (small as it may be) and needs to only be done once. But like many things I have found with BPCR shooting, there are different opinions and you'll have to try it to see if it helps.

When I said "drill the flash holes" I mean to make them uniform in size to the 45-70 spec. I did find about 60% had holes a tad too small.

[herbert buckland]

I tryed this once and it was the worst thing I ever did,it destroyed acuracy and made the cases into scrap,if you want to improve acuracy tryunder primer wads and PP,this has worked fo me every time

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Other than uniforming all flashholes with a Lyman tool, checking for length etc. I do nothing to the primer pocket.

I use large Federal pistol primers for consistant ignition.

[mdevlin53]

After having a discussion on failure to fire in a BP cartridge i took drill bit the same size asthe primer hole in an un fired case and ran it through my fired cases with a hand mandrill. I foind that several were small and a coulple were a tad sloppy. I think it might be a good idea if they are all made uniform.

[RMulhern]

Bout as useless an endeavor as tits on a boar hog!!

[John Boy]

Bout as useless an endeavor as tits on a boar hog!!
I'd say ... this thread has come to a definite end! [smilie=1:

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I uniform the primer pocket with a sinclar tool, I uniform the Flash hole, and debur the inside of the flashhole with a Lyman Tool. A uniformed primer pocket will have less vertical at 800 to 1000 yards in my opinon. I had some that need a good bit of brass that were almost high primers those vrs ones that were uniformed had more vertical at the longer Distances, it really shows up at 1 Mile. Key words here is uniform I do not drill them out.

In other words going from a high seated primer to a lower seated one for me with Dora was a 10 with deep seated primer to a 2 oclock 6 or even a Miss just over the top. I tried some testing at 200 yards a few weeks back, it even showed up at 200 yards a a high shot 1.5 to 2.0 MOA up and too the right out of the group.

At Phoenix I made sure every round used in the match has the same primer Pocket Depth. It seemed to give some pretty decent scores.?

KW
The Lunger

[Texantothecore]

Thanks everyone. My suspicion was that no one was doing it.

So I won't ...

[semtav]

I've got a 40-82 that came with some BACO stretched brass that had the pockets shallowed and the hole size reduced. I shoot Federal Large Pistol Magnum Match primers and it shoots really well, but I've never had any regular ones to compare it to. Now I've got some coming from Steve Rhoades with the regular pockets to compare it to.

[Yellowhouse]

There were some touting the virtues of such about 20 years ago. Guess it still lingers.

[montana_charlie]

There were some touting the virtues of such about 20 years ago. Guess it still lingers.
A widely-read book on loading for the old trapdoors told readers that it required drilled holes and magnum primers to get reliable ignition in compressed BP charges.

Nobody promotes that thinking, anymore.

CM

[Simonpie]

I have played around with this a bit. Hole size didn't affect group size much (or any) but it did affect location. I didn't chrono at the time. Keeping all your primer holes consistant is a benefit. Just buying all the same brand/lot of brass is probably sufficient.

[herbert buckland]

When I tryed this I had just read one of Paul A.Matthews books on reloading the BP cartridge and he recomended this,unfotuntly I drilled the flash holes before I finished the book ,because 2 chapters later he has come to the conclusion that this is a very bad idea and explaines how to fix it with primer wads.When I tryed this I did it with a 56-50 Spencer and the cases with enlarged flash holes shot very badly,primer wads improved this almost to unenlarged flash hole acuracy,cases without the flash holes enlarged and with primer wads were more acurate than all ,by a fair margin.The 56-50 needs heavy powder compresion to get enough powder in the case for best velocity acuracy,so this may not aplly as much to other cartridges,but to me if it destroyed acuracy in one cartridge I defintly will not be trying it in another one

[Hang Fire]

I mistakedly ordered 100 .45 LC cases for blanks which have a very large flash hole. Decided to try with BP and they do seem to have bit more punch than same load with normal size flash holes.

[EDK]

When I got the SHARPS BUG, I bought Mike Venturino's book and the Paul Matthews library from Wolfe Publishing. No computer at that time. The popular idea was the Federal Magnum rifle primer. I uniformed the primer pockets with the LYMAN tool and trimmed cases on a LYMAN trimmer. I've got a few of the primers left and a couple cans of GOEX CARTRIDGE powder and then it will be time to start over on "the one good load" for the 50/90.

Primer wads are worth experimenting with...minimal cost. If they work, I'll probably get a swage to convert to large pistol size pockets....BUFFALO ARMS did list the swage awhile back.

Kenny Wasserburger gave you some technical details with the key word being UNIFORM. IF you want match grade ammo, you have to make each round EXACTLY ALIKE and PERFECT for the rifle you're loading for. THEN you start doing some serious shooting and honing your skills. Most of us aren't that dedicated...and that is why Kenny is a champion shooter and reloader.

Mrs. Ed laughs at me when I tell people that I shoot my VAQUEROS every day; that if I miss a day, I can tell the difference. If I miss two days, they can tell the difference.

:redneck::cbpour::2gunsfiring_v1:

[Texantothecore]

A widely-read book on loading for the old trapdoors told readers that it required drilled holes and magnum primers to get reliable ignition in compressed BP charges.

Nobody promotes that thinking, anymore.

CM

That book is where I got the impression that it might be a good idea. However the lack of discussion of this on the board led me to believe that it was no longer being done.

Thanks for your input guys. I am about to start shooting BP again (which is what I started with) and I sort of suspect that I won't be going back to smokeless after the changeover. I used to shoot muzzle loaders and it was an absolute blast and it appears me that doing cartridge BP is going to be even more fun.

[Dframe]

Other than uniforming all flashholes with a Lyman tool, checking for length etc. I do nothing to the primer pocket.

I use large Federal pistol primers for consistant ignition.

What he said.

[Grapeshot]

I haven't seen this discussed and couldn't find anything on it through search...

Are you drilling out your flash holes (#41 drill) when you go to BP?

I am shooting a .45-70 and I expect to be fully BP in short order.


Man, it has been a long time since I posted a thread. I need to get with the program.

Having read J. Wolf's book on reloading the .45/70 cartridges for original trapdoor rifles and carbines I followed his instructions in reloading the .45-70. I did manage to pour a full weighed 70 grains og 2Fg Goex into a Winchester .45-70 case. I had drilled out the primer flash hole with a 9/32nds drill bit and compressed the powder charge almost .60 inch. I also used Winchester Large Rifle Magnum Primers as recommended and my accuracy with a Sharps Infantry Rifle improved. I also followed his instructions on reloadind for the original .45 Colt with a 40 grain weighed charge, compressed, under a .454 PRS Big Lube Boolit, touched off with a CCI 350 Large Pistol Magnum Primer. Those were some of the most accurate BP rounds I ever Fired out of my SAA Clone.

I took those rounds to a Cowboy Match and After the First round went down range, the crowd backed off to keep from being bowled over by the concussion.

[Texantothecore]

Thanks for the input. I will leave it to uniforming the flash and primer hole.

[Black Powder Bill]

Unless one is plugged up, I leave them as they are.

[Chicken Thief]

What do you say to a blonde with two black eyes?
Nothing!
She's allready been told twice.

BP is way easy to ignite and many elite shooters even turn to LP primers and over primer wad to retard the flame even further.

[hiram]

I drill all my cases (all calibers) flash holes as a standard practice with a #45 drill and then debur the inside. The 45 drill will slip into most holes and take a very fine cut off of a few. I do this to uniform the hole, not to enlarge them.

[bigted]

i must confess that i have wondered about this thing as well. ive read Wolfs book as well as Mathews and wondered what the deal was so i been reading Wolfs book again to refresh myself with his theory.

the first thing that is a thread thru the entire book is that he was loading shells to duplicate the military loads of the time that the springfield trapdoor was a military arm.

the second thread that runs thru the book is the criteria that was demanded by the arsonal that at the very least there should be the ability to chamber and shoot 20 shots before having to swab the barrel and that with these 20 shots they should all be in at least a 4 minute angle thru the entire 20 shots.

the other thing to remember is the sizes of boolits that were used and the comparison of them to the barrel bore n grooves. the diameter of the bore was spesified to be .449 to .451...with this being as much as .452 now after all these years and shots thru them...the groove was to be .457 thru .463 and some now being as much as .464. the fun thing is the diameter of boolits that were to be shot thru these barrels ... which was to be .457/.458. so these boolits had to bump in the start of the journey and fairly fast to fill the grooves so the powder would not burn by the boolit and deposite lead rite at the chamber and rifling begining.

to accomplish this they loaded hollow base 405 grain boolits as there is not enough weight to hold the powder explosion back for the bumping...the 500 grain loads held a flatbase boolit as the weight was enough to hold back for the bumping to fill those grooves.

next they used a fairly heavy crimp to help hold the boolit as it bumped up to fill and to aid this the heavy compressed powder load had to get the most help to ignite properly and explode in completion to develope the preassure to do the needed bumping to keep the leading down.

Wolf describes the affair as thusly...upon ignition the powder that is very heavilly compressed ...is pushed forward by the begining of ignition enough to shake it apart so the long duration of the primers described could shoot up thru the powder column to cause the needed shock to the base of the boolit by a more complete powder ignition... that has been crimped in place so that its base would expand properly for a good journey down the barrel...in addition to all this the fouling was to have been less with the 2f powder to allow the needed 20 or so shots into the demanded 4 minute of angle... before having to swab the barrel to be able to continue with the battle at hand.

there is much more but this is the reasson he subscribed to the boring out the primer hole to his .096 inch diameter.

another thing i read that i missed before in Wolfs book is his explanation that these were not target style loads...but battle loads. the suggestion that they were not target loads was followed with the fact that the target loads were to be assembled differently and that the target loads were not to be confused with the battle loads that he also suggests that the cases so drilled be marked permantly to be segregated from any other loads.

wheww there is my lil speel !!!