Low cost choices for fluxing?

[FergusonTO35]

Hey guys. I was wondering what is the best low cost choice for fluxing ordinary range lead? I know that stick bullet lube works but its kind of pricey. Does ordinary household paraffin wax (such as Gulfwax) work well? One guy told me he prefers toilet bowl gaskets. How about candle wax? I have several of those scented candle in a jar thingies with the wick burned down but still have alot of wax left.

[clintsfolly]

Yep! It all works and add to the list used and new motor oil,dry sawdust. I like used motor oil for range lead and stickon WW. i add it as soon as some of has melted and light as soon as possible the heat helps melt and lighting cut a lot on the smoke .Clint

[swamp]

+1 on saw dust. Effective and cheap.

[Bullet Caster]

+1 on the sawdust. I use cedar shavings that I plane off of cedar planks. BC

[sig2009]

I save and use all the leftover wax from my jar candles to flux.

[FergusonTO35]

Excellent, thanks!!

[onesonek]

Sawdust again

[fredj338]

Sawdust by far over greases or wax. Free @ most home stores that sell/cut lumber, just avoid the plywood & MDF.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Definately sawdust. I gathered up a bunch, 2 five gal. pails to be exact, of chain saw chips after cutting up some dry dead trees. I run a handful of the chips thru a yard sale food processor for making fluxing wood dust. As far as candle wax, here is another use for those little birthday candles after you blew them out on your/kids birthday cake. Yes, about any of the votive and jar type candles will work although soy candles don`t work well I hear. My humble advice about using Marvaflux or Midway`s version of it is simply don`t use them!Robert

[MBTcustom]

I used paraphin and bees-wax for years. It sucks rocks. Smoky, nasty, greasy, grimy, scummy, stinkin mess that doesnt hold a candle to what we have now!
Use saw-dust/chips and stir with a wooden stick. It works better than any other flux, plus it removes calcium from the pot while returning tin and antimony back to the mix. Your pot will be cleaner, along with your thermometer, ladle, and dross spoons. It is better in every way. seeing all that smoke may give you all kinds of fuzzy feelings, but saw-dust is the only thing that really works.

[dragon813gt]

I think I'm the only one that has not had good luck with sawdust. Don't get we wrong it did the job. But I hate having to clean it off the top to ladle out the lead. I prefer to use gulfwax as a little goes a long way. It's also easier to clean up. I understand using sawdust in your production pot. But even then I don't want to get all the junk anywhere close to the bottom.


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[Sonnypie]

Lizard Litter. (http://www.petco.com/product/102881/Zilla-Ground-English-Walnut-Shells-Reptile-Bedding.aspx)
Works for your vibratory tumbler, and works great as a flux for the lead.

[willie_pete]

Time for my silly question of the day. Remembering that clay pigeons were made of mostly pitch from my skeet days, i recently picked up some pieces from the shotgun range and used it to flux some lead. It seemed to work as well as or better than sawdust or wax. Have I gone off the deep end?

WP

[rexherring]

It all seems to work but I prefer Marvelux. However, hardwood sawdust for my smoker smells great.

[DrCaveman]

Sawdust is pretty darn good. Something sappy (like pine or fir) offers even better fluxing, since the oils can help return oxidized tin back into the alloy. I think it helps with other metals as well (antimony, arsenic, etc). The sawdust itself helps prevent further oxidation of the entire alloy.

So in a pinch, use whatever sawdust you can, and add a pinch of pine sap. As cheap as it gets.

If only lead grew on trees in my backyard, I would be in business. Then, a primer bush would be the next step ;)

[geargnasher]

Marvellux is total garbage in my opinion. It captures and removes tin in oxide form, does zero to reduce metal oxides to their elemental state, and absorbs water like crazy. The only thing it does well is remove impurities, particularly some metals we casters consider impurities, from the melt. Sawdust does all this and a whole lot more, and if you understand the process chemically you'll see what I mean. If you want the whole explanation of why sawdust works better than anything else, check out Fryxell's article at the Los Angeles Silhouette Clug website.

Gear

[lead chucker]

+1 on the sawdust I was surprised how well it works just be careful if the sawdust has any moisture in it and you go to stir it, it will pop and spit molten lead so ware safety glasses and leather gloves. A friend of mine works at the lumber yard and I stop buy and grab a gallon zip lock bag every once in a while. If you use it try to keep it dry.

[lead chucker]

Time for my silly question of the day. Remembering that clay pigeons were made of mostly pitch from my skeet days, i recently picked up some pieces from the shotgun range and used it to flux some lead. It seemed to work as well as or better than sawdust or wax. Have I gone off the deep end?

WP

Clay pigeons you say I will have to try that do you crush it up or does it breakdown when it hits the molten lead?

[gundownunder]

I use sawdust mixed with just enough leather dressing to make it look damp (not much).
It works well and the oils and waxes in the mix make it smell pretty good too.

[gray wolf]

Saw dust and haven't looked back, Smelting and in the Lee pot for casting.
I never have dirty bullets and it don't come out the bottom.
Cover the melt, let it char up ( no moisture please ) stir it in well, I use a metal spoon. Then leave the darn thing alone. I have had the same ash in my pot for two or three fills and it is still working.
If I stir with a a paint stick --that's when I get the dirt in the bullets.
A huge bag of pine saw dust, large flake and small like they use in chicken coops
Cost about 5$$ and it's a very big bail, enough for a LOooong time.

[williamwaco]

I used Gulf-Wax or scrap candles from 1956 to 2011 with complete satisfaction.

Geargnasher convinced me to try sawdust and I must admit it does a better job.

.

[Cord]

You didn't say wether you are smelting the range lead first.

Raw range lead with dirt and jackets would never get close
to my bottom pour RCBS, only slag free ingots go in there.

Smelting outdoors, I use cheap cooking oil, it is thin, spreads itself
in a film that clings to the dirt, jackets or clips, and lights off easily.
You probably have some in the kitchen, give it a try.

In the casting pot I use sawdust made on my chopsaw from a
2x4 of southern yellow pine that has one huge sappy knot along it,
the dust is yellow and a bit sticky, works great, 3" of wood = coffee can.

+1 on learning all you can from Glen Fryxell.

I learned alot from Geargnasher too.
.

[John Boy]

Go to your friendly hardware store and ask for a fist full of wood paint stirrers ... FREE

[ScottJ]

I mostly use crayons that restaurants give my kids. Also paint stir sticks from time to time.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

[geargnasher]

I mostly use crayons that restaurants give my kids. Also paint stir sticks from time to time.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

Why?

Gear

[Huntducks]

Wax ring cause I have a sh!! load, I scoup a little with a paint stir stick.:drinks:

[ScottJ]

Gear, crayons = wax = carbon, right?

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

[geargnasher]

Scott, there's a lot more to it than that, especially with scrap alloy. Sawdust is what you want, read Glen's article on fluxing at the LASC website and you'll see what I mean.

Just saying "I use wax rings" or "I use crayons" doesn't really help anyone if you don't understand what it is you're accomplishing (or not) with using it. Grease/wax/oil doesn't do the whole job.

Gear

[williamwaco]

Scott, there's a lot more to it than that, especially with scrap alloy. Sawdust is what you want, read Glen's article on fluxing at the LASC website and you'll see what I mean.


Gear

I cast bullets using gulf-wax or scrap candles for over 50 years and I thought I was perfectly happy.

Gear convinced me I was kidding myself that in fact I was not yet completely happy. I just didn't know how miserable I really was.

He convinced me to try sawdust and I must admit it does a better job. And the dirtier the alloy the more it outperforms paraffin.

I am not chemically inclined so I don't really understand the chemistry of fluxing but I can observe the result.

Try it. You will like it.


.

[FergusonTO35]

Ok, looks like I better start sawing some wood in preparation for the arrival of my Lyman kit. Ordered it Friday and I'm squirmin' to make some boolits!!

[evan price]

Bulk lots of range scrap for ingots- used motor oil. I have gallons of it from working on engines. Free. Good source of carbon for a reductant. Burns off nicely.

Stir the casting pot with chopsticks from chinese takeout. Works good and also free.

[FergusonTO35]

I have sawdust and used & new motor oil in abundance. Now, with either one is it best to burn the top off or just ladle it out after stirring it in? Should the sawdust be fine, coarse, or does it matter? Yeah, I'm a fluxing newbie. All my casting until now has been done with a buddy who had already fluxed it.:lovebooli

[geargnasher]

The used engine oil isn't really necessary if you just use good clean sawdust or wood chips and stir the pot well, but if you think the stench helps the process, go right ahead! Avoid anything from plywood, MDF, particle board, OSB, or pressure-treated lumber.

Gear

[tonyjones]

My neighbor just cut down two dead pine trees. I spread out a tarp to catch the cuttings made by the chainsaw. I'll get more when the large pieces are cut up to be hauled away. So far I've filled a 5 gallon bucket and it was free.

Tony

[randyrat]

I use SAW DUST. But you have to scrape the sides and bottom with a wooden stick preferably a Oak or similar hard wood. Make sure you dip the wooden stick in slow the first time of every batch to release the moisture in the wood slow.

Since I have been using saw dust and scraping the bottom and sides my bottom pour pot has not plugged. Whatever flux you use, be sure to scrape to help release junk that is trapped.

I'm guessing any organic material, Carbon is the answer.

[wiljen]

I use a pine wood closet bar to stir with (leftover chunk from a remodel) and used motor oil as flux. Works great and as cheap as I can think of.

[mold maker]

It's the carbon from the charred (burned) saw dust that does the fluxing magic. It needs to be stirred (after toasting to remove moisture) into the melt (with a stick) and then scraped (with a spatula) from the pot surfaces, under the melt. This brings any trash from the melt and pot surface to the top, for removal. When your done, you'll be surprised how clean your pot is, no mater what it had stuck to it before.
I've used lube, candles, parfine, grease, oil, and bought flux, but never again.

[Longwood]

I used a lot of stuff over the years.
I read here to try sawdust or pet bedding. Worked great. Then I read here that someone recommended pellets.
I use pellets from my pellet stove now.
I wet a few (repeat, few, they really swell up) so they break up, then use them after drying them.

[geargnasher]

The carbon, or actually the combustion reaction that creates carbon and carbon monoxide, reduces the oxides to elements. The carbohydrates in the sawdust doe the real "fluxing".

Gear

[FergusonTO35]

I tried out candle wax last night, I have a bunch of small candles left over from my wedding. It works great, flames up without being lit. It seemed to work as well as bullet stick lube, which is pricey just to be used as flux. I do have sawdust but its outside in a big pile and probably full of moisture. Nonetheless I will give it a try sometime. Got used motor oil in abundance too. Thanks for all your advice guys!

[HamGunner]

Anything that contains carbon will work.

For use in a large pot for what we call "smelting" (or for casting in a bottom pour furnace) I prefer sawdust and lots of it. I throw it in from the start to let it get reduced to ash and another handful or three as I add more metal to the pot. I especially like sawdust that contains resin and the more the better. It keeps things extremely clean and the smell is natural and more like a camp fire. Sawdust works really great with a bottom pour pot when casting and I leave a layer on while casting. After fluxing, just throw another good handful back on top of the pot and let it smolder back down to ash as you cast and it will be ready for the next fluxing.

For ladle or dipper casting where the flux has to be removed completely, the sawdust works, but petroleum products is faster. I normally just use old candle remnants or about anything that will not stink too badly. Watch for flare ups.

[geargnasher]

One more time guys: carbon reduces oxides, but doesn't clean the alloy of impurities. To clean the alloy, you need sawdust because it contains certain substances that react with and "lock" contaminants out the alloy so they can be skimmed away with the ashes.

You use what you want if you think it works, I'm trying to help you guys out here by explaining what is really going on. If your alloy is "clean" enough of contaminating metals, a chunk of Gulf Wax to take care of the oxides might be all you need. But just because the melt has a clean, shiny surface doesn't mean it doesn't have junk in there that will hinder the way it casts. Sawdust or borates are the ways to remove that stuff, although the borates have a couple of pretty severe drawbacks.

Wet sawdust, sprinkled on top of the melt, won't created a bomb. Shoving a damp stick down into the melt will.

Gear

[bumblefox]

I'm really diggin' this sawdust/woodchip idea. I've been collecting ww and any other forms of lead that can be found on the side of the roads for about two years now, But I'm still new to the casting stage though. So I was wondering if there is a formula as to how big/small the wood chips/dust should be compaired to the size of the melting pot/devise, also what is a good ratio of wood to lbs of lead being smelted.
Thanks in advance!

[guidogoose]

+1 on using wax. I've cast over 50,000 bullets this year alone with it and it works fine. I am curious to try sawdust after reading the reviews here.

[mold maker]

My choices are sawdust,sawdust, and sawdust. When smelting I grab a generous hand full and drop it on top of the metal . Your clean pot and melt will thank you.
If you use too much it will only take a minute longer to char. If you use too little it wont be totally effective. Just make sure its dry and don't stir it under till it is charred. It's just a convenient form of inexpensive carbon, same as the rest. Only it does a better job, cheaper. As far as chip size, larger takes longer to completely char to carbon.

[geargnasher]

Sawdust is not just carbon like the grease/wax/oil. The carbohydrate structure of wood pulp reacts with and absorbs certain impurities dissolved in scrap or dirty alloy that cause casting problems, so it is a true FLUX, not just a sacrificial reducant.

Gear

[Longwood]

If you have a pellet stove, or know someone that does, ask them to buy a small box or bag of them to try.
They are tightly compressed wood chips and dust and they work extremely well as flux once they are broken up.
I do it by putting about 1/2" in a cake pan then adding enough water to cover them. The chips will quickly swell as they absorb the water so be sure to expect it and be prepared with a deep enough pan. Add more water if all of the pellets do not break apart or pellets if you have too much water.
I then dry mine in the sun till they dry. Here, that takes about two or three hours.
In the South East you may have to try another method.
I have used them without breaking them up then drying them.
During casting it takes up too much time.
While smelting, it works ok, they just smolder longer so I add paraffin to light, so it burns off most of the smoke for the neighbors sake.

[gbrown]

I guess it is what you have the best access to and what works for you. I have used paraffin, candles, etc. in the past, but was not pleased with the oily residue left on the side of my pots. Went to a local rice mill for mulch and discovered they sold a bag of clean rice hulls for $4.00. This bag is what they put 100# of milled rice in. About 4 foot by 2.5 foot by 2 foot. Holds about 50 # of hulls. Clean and dry. Smell good on top of a bunch of alloy. One bag is about 5 years of smelting-casting. As said by others here--carbon is carbon.

[Longwood]

I guess it is what you have the best access to and what works for you.

Pine needles have been reported as usable.
I am going to try them this fall.

[fcvan]

I flux with used ground walnut from my tumbler. Sometimes I use new but mostly use the old stuff to get rid of it. I decap and wash my brass with dawn dish soap and sometimes a splash of lemon juice for the really tarnished stuff. The point is washing removes the primer fouling or at least reduces it so I'm not sending that up in smoke. The brass comes out clean and the media lasts a lot longer. When the media is too funky I flux with it. Frank

[gbrown]

Pine needles have been reported as usable.
I am going to try them this fall.

I was told by a couple of people who have been casting for a combined time of 95 years + that rosin was the PRIMO fluxing agent. Never tried it, but I believe that rosin is a product of the pine. You might have a great idea there.

[Longwood]

I was told by a couple of people who have been casting for a combined time of 95 years + that rosin was the PRIMO fluxing agent. Never tried it, but I believe that rosin is a product of the pine. You might have a great idea there.


I recall bringing home some resin many years ago from the Uniroyal tire plant. Maybe that was why.

I got a new mold and am anxious to try it as soon as I get the new motor for the roll around swamp cooler.
I am going to try some pine pitch balls and Encelia resin beads that the indians burned for incense.

[csmopar]

I just started smelting old range lead, so far saw dust is working for me, course, I'm brand new but I decided to use saw dust since the local saw mill will sell it cheap, I got a 25 foot dump trailer full for 35 bucks.

[geargnasher]

I was told by a couple of people who have been casting for a combined time of 95 years + that rosin was the PRIMO fluxing agent. Never tried it, but I believe that rosin is a product of the pine. You might have a great idea there.

I've used pine rosin, it's an excellent sacrificial reducant, but does nothign to remove impurities. Sawdust and rosin together is a dynamite combination, rosin first, then sawdust. It will look like shiny new metal after the rosin, but it's the stuff you can't see that sawdust absorbs and removes as it chars that you want to remove, so use the sawdust anyway.

Gear

[41 mag fan]

2x4x8= $2.59. chop chop on my miter saw, maybe $1.00 in electricity total.
enough swadust for 2 full 8 hour days of casting, and 7'9" or so of 2x4x8 left= priceless

[Elkins45]

For $4.99 you can go to the local farm store and pick up a giant bale of either pine or cedar animal bedding that will probably last you a lifetime.

I was a paraffin user for 20+ years until I tried sawdust. Now I will never go back. I just wish there was some way to leave a layer on top while ladle pouring.

[geargnasher]

Elkins, you can ladle pour with a layer of sawdust/ash on top just fine if you use a Rowel-type ladle. It sure keeps the oxides down and the ladle stays clean of all that sticky dross crud.

Gear

[Elkins45]

Elkins, you can ladle pour with a layer of sawdust/ash on top just fine if you use a Rowel-type ladle. It sure keeps the oxides down and the ladle stays clean of all that sticky dross crud.

Gear

Gear, there's just no end of the useful stuff I learn from you. I had no idea the Rowell ladles existed until now. What a simple yet elegant idea. I think I could almost whip something up like that myself. Thanks for the great suggestion!

[gbrown]

Post by Elkins45: Gear, there's just no end of the useful stuff I learn from you. I had no idea the Rowell ladles existed until now. What a simple yet elegant idea. I think I could almost whip something up like that myself. Thanks for the great suggestion!

I bought a #2 from Rotometals, one of our sponsor/vendors about 6 months ago. Works beautifully. Fills an 8 cavity mold easily.

[geargnasher]

Gear, there's just no end of the useful stuff I learn from you. I had no idea the Rowell ladles existed until now. What a simple yet elegant idea. I think I could almost whip something up like that myself. Thanks for the great suggestion!

Lyman and RCBS have been making Rowell-type casting ladles for a long time, and like GBrown said, Rotometals sells several bigger ones for gang moulds and pouring ingots.

Gear

ps I swear I put two "ells" in Rowell in the post above, but I think I flubbed the dash and backspaced twice. Anyway, being quoted twice it's preserved forever.

[huntrick64]

I have been using sawdust for years and recently stumbled on to the "perfect" sawdust for fluxing. I build selfbows from Osage Orange staves. Sometimes I use a jointer to flatten the back of the stave so i can glue bamboo on the back. The little chips of osage orange that come out of my jointer are perfect! The chips are about 1/64th inch thick and about 1/8 inch in diameter. There are not many woods more dense than osage (sometimes it doesn't even float in water). It is very pleasant smelling when it chars on top of the lead. I flux 2 or 3 times removing the impurities each time. The fourth time I cover the top of the lead and let it set there and smolder while casting. In one session of working osage I ended up with a wal-mart sack full of chips. Will last me and my casting buddy a while.

[geargnasher]

We call it Bodark here, and in central Texas it's commonly used for fence posts, a duty it can perform for centuries if the top is cut properly and the bark remove. Sacrilege, I know. It's a beautiful wood. Just about any wood makes good flux, just watch out for walnut and Western (aromatic) Cedar, some of the chemicals in it are harmful to people when it's burned.

Gear

[D Crockett]

let's see things I have used for flux candle wax , bees wax , tolit rings wax , a paint stir stick , a hand full of dry leafs off the groung , used moter oil , chinese chop stick , saw dust , sap from a pine tree , a mixture of candle wax and the stuff you have left over when cleaning bees wax , bullet lube , and Marvelx which I do not recomend becouse of the steem explosions it can couse if you do not know how to use it right D Crockett

[Longwood]

let's see things I have used for flux candle wax , bees wax , tolit rings wax , a paint stir stick , a hand full of dry leafs off the groung , used moter oil , chinese chop stick , saw dust , sap from a pine tree , a mixture of candle wax and the stuff you have left over when cleaning bees wax , bullet lube , and Marvelx which I do not recomend becouse of the steem explosions it can couse if you do not know how to use it right D Crockett

No "Bar" lard?

[Ron r]

Should be lub left on some of them
If not I use the boolits that hit the floor
After lubbing work good for me.

[km101]

Is anyone stil out there? Will any type of sawdust work? I mean from any type of wood. Any wood that works better or worse? I am new to all this, and this is the first time that I have heard of using sawdust. What should I look for to tell if it's working? This is very interesting and I want to try it, but I need a little more info on the process to feel comfortable.

KM101

NRA Life Member

[just.don]

high rosin content pine seems to be among the popular choices

[H.Callahan]

high rosin content pine seems to be among the popular choices
+1 Pine seems to be the acknowledged standard, although other woods can work as well. I think because pine is easily obtainable and there is nothing that works any better, it is what most people use/recommend when fluxing with sawdust.

[Wayne Smith]

The issue is not the wood, it is the creation of carbon. Any wood or wood product will work. Avoid pressure treated wood. It is the carbon that is the reducing agent, I understand. Byproducts of smell are personal choices.

[John in WI]

on this last back of range scrap, I tried something new. The extremely hot and dry summer here has my pine trees literally leaking sap. Huge balls of straight pine sap coming out through the bark.

It seemed to work like a charm--just like using saw dust without the dust. The resin burned away without a trace.

A warning about straight pine pitch--be careful with it. It burns with really frightening heat (like Greek Fire!). So start small, and get it burning before you add any more. Anyway, I think I'm going to collect as much as I can (without actually damaging the tree) and use it.

[geargnasher]

on this last back of range scrap, I tried something new. The extremely hot and dry summer here has my pine trees literally leaking sap. Huge balls of straight pine sap coming out through the bark.

It seemed to work like a charm--just like using saw dust without the dust. The resin burned away without a trace.

A warning about straight pine pitch--be careful with it. It burns with really frightening heat (like Greek Fire!). So start small, and get it burning before you add any more. Anyway, I think I'm going to collect as much as I can (without actually damaging the tree) and use it.

I'm going to keep saying it.

Hydrocarbons burn. Combustion is a sort of reduction/oxidation reaction. When combustion occurs in the presence of metal oxides, they give up their oxygen to the process and return to their elemental state. The oxygen and reduced carbon becomes CO2. This redox reaction reduces the oxides and oxidizes the carbon.

THIS IS NOT FLUXING, IT'S REDUCING.

Fluxing is the process of removing the impurities that impede the casting qualities of the alloy, while preserving the things we want, like arsenic, antimony, and tin. Introducing carbohydrates to the melt is what isolates and absorbs these impurities so they can be skimmed away. Borate fluxes and wood pulp are two of the very best things to use for this purpose, and the borates come with so many drawbacks that sawdust, leaves, wood chips, shavings, or simply stirring with a pine stick for long enough to char a good bit of it away is the "best" thing I've tried.

We need to both reduce and flux our scrap metals. Clean foundry metal probably only needs to have the oxide scum reduced from time to time in the casting pot, nothing more. But wheel weights and other contaminated scrap with all sorts of trace impurities that don't help the casting process at all in it works better with a good cleaning. Rosins, grease, wax, oil, etc. works fine for reducing oxides, but doesn't do a thing for the aluminum, calcium, iron, zinc, etc. that's mucking up the works. That's why you need sawdust for dirty scrap.

Gear

[Boyscout]

Following a similar thread, I tried a dried stick to stir a pot of wheel weight lead I was cleaning up for ingots. After skimming the dross created from using the stick, I followed up with some stick Alox to flux; I got very little impurities on the second flux. Has anyone tried pine needles?

[Boyscout]

Following a similar thread, I tried a dried stick to stir a pot of wheel weight lead I was cleaning up for ingots. After skimming the dross created from using the stick, I followed up with some stick Alox to flux; I got very little impurities on the second flux. Has anyone tried pine needles?"Everyone is entitled to an educated opinion>"

[just.don]

"THIS IS NOT FLUXING, IT'S REDUCING."
Bless your heart Sir. Your patience is admirable!

[Longwood]

Following a similar thread, I tried a dried stick to stir a pot of wheel weight lead I was cleaning up for ingots. After skimming the dross created from using the stick, I followed up with some stick Alox to flux; I got very little impurities on the second flux. Has anyone tried pine needles?

A member brought them up about a year ago and said they worked fine.
They sure won't hurt anything, plus they should smell good.
I got a small tub of dried (practically Amber), pitch balls from some huge Sugar-Pine trees, a few days ago but have not had a chance to try it yet.
Stirring with a stick, also requires some scraping with a spoon etc. to clean the sides and bottoms of the pot,,, because the sticks leave lots of stuff in the pot. Not important when smelting but very much so if casting with a bottom spout pot.

[geargnasher]

A pine stick is like a Magic Eraser for junk stuck to spoons, the sides of the pot, or anything covered in hot oxide scum. If you use a pine stick to "police" the scum in the pot from time to time this is all you need.

As the alloy level falls in a pot there's always silvery scum hanging in big patches along the sides. Take your stick and wipe it off, a spoon won't get it clean, but a stick will. Police all the scum into a pile on the melt's surface near an edge, and work it against the side of the pot with the stick. Shortly, all the good metal will be extracted from the pile and all you'll be left with is a small pinch of grey ash, easily skimmed out with the tip of a spoon. Use the stick to get the cling-ons of the valve pintle on your bottom-pour (when everything's hot, of course), and also off the thermometer probe if you use one.

One caveat, though, DO NOT scrape the bottom of a bottom-pour pot with the wood stick. This is a certain way to get ash trash trapped under the melt, and that trash will migrate to the spout and come out as ugly little pits called "inclusions" in your boolits. Some of these you can see, and some are inside the boolit where you can't. Use a spoon to scrape the bottom, NEVER a stick, unless you're using a ladle-casting pot where the junk on the bottom is of no consequence.

I always have better luck doing my heavy fluxing and cleaning of alloy when I "smelt" the scrap rather than when casting. That way I only have to use a stick and maybe some rosin or some kind of wax to keep the oxides reduced in my casting pot. The oxides are constantly recurring, but once you get the impurities out, they're out. I typically double-flux and ladle the alloy through the charring layer when smelting to expose as much of the metal to the sawdust as possible, sort of like water through coffee grounds. I've noticed that the ash I skim the second time is much less clumpy and is much lighter in weight than the initial flux, this is proof enough to me that bad stuff is being absorbed by the sawdust and removed. The further proof is my experience with casting. Plain old wheel weights with a pinch of tin added and only treated with reducing agents doesn't cast nearly as well as a thoroughly fluxed alloy does. Try it for yourselves sometime and see.

But remember, if you're using grease/wax/oil/rosin or such, you are NOT fluxing or cleaning the melt, only reverting the oxides.

Gear

[Longwood]

Take your stick and wipe it off, a spoon won't get it clean, but a stick will.

Gear

Try a better shaped spoon.

[Boyscout]

I have begun to process my wheel weights in a casting pot since my 10 lb. Lee bottom pour is a no go for smelting. I have been trying to learn how to achieve a desired BHN on the first try. This thread has been really helpful and I know I am on the right track. I had been casting for handgun and accuracy was not as much of an issue at the range I have been shooting. However, I have started to shoot more CB through my rifles and need more consistancy. My last attempt to reach 19 BHN by alloying WW, 70/30 and tin got me to 20.1 BHN. My math may have been a little off but I was happy to come so close. It was a lot easier knowing my starting points. I cast a few test bullits each time I smelt to test for hardness.

[Moonie]

I have begun to process my wheel weights in a casting pot since my 10 lb. Lee bottom pour is a no go for smelting. I have been trying to learn how to achieve a desired BHN on the first try. This thread has been really helpful and I know I am on the right track. I had been casting for handgun and accuracy was not as much of an issue at the range I have been shooting. However, I have started to shoot more CB through my rifles and need more consistancy. My last attempt to reach 19 BHN by alloying WW, 70/30 and tin got me to 20.1 BHN. My math may have been a little off but I was happy to come so close. It was a lot easier knowing my starting points. I cast a few test bullits each time I smelt to test for hardness.

Am I reading this correctly that you are adding 30% tin to your WW alloy?

[geargnasher]

I got that too.

Gear

[gbrown]

I have begun to process my wheel weights in a casting pot since my 10 lb. Lee bottom pour is a no go for smelting. I have been trying to learn how to achieve a desired BHN on the first try. ////// My last attempt to reach 19 BHN by alloying WW, 70/30 and tin got me to 20.1 BHN.

Are you smelting raw WW and adding a source of tin at the same time? I try to clean my WW up during the smelting and flux many times. Whenever I need harder alloy, I then mix pure lead--from plumbers, roofers, etc.--and linotype. Supposed to come out like Lyman #2, but what I have been getting is 18-19 bhn after 2 week aging. I have tested the pure lead and it comes out at 8-10 bhn after aging. Which leads me to wonder, "Is there any pure lead left out there?" All recycled stuff? Using a Lee Lead tester, btw. An 98/02 mix of WW and solder gave me a bhn of around 16. Can't remember the exact solder I used, whether it was 60/40, 50/50 or what. Whoops, had to change that.

[just.don]

Rotometal 70/30 Lead/Antimony

From a thread he started, odd how I was just reading that one and then this one.
Maybe I need another job, or a hobby or something.

I normally wouldn't try to answer for others, but the sequence of events....... , and I figured clearing that up early couldn't hurt and shouldn't offend.

[H.Callahan]

Yeah, I was thinking that I wanted to find out where he was shooting and do some berm mining!

[fredj338]

Gear, crayons = wax = carbon, right?

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

You know many of thosd cheap crayons are a plastic not wax. I would pass on adding that to my melt pot. It doesn't get any cheaper & better than sawdust. Every HomeDepot or Lowes has it for free, just take a 2qt plastic bag & ask.

[gbrown]

You know many of thosd cheap crayons are a plastic not wax. I would pass on adding that to my melt pot. It doesn't get any cheaper & better than sawdust. Every HomeDepot or Lowes has it for free, just take a 2qt plastic bag & ask.

Are you getting the sawdust from plywood (with glue/adhesive) or actual wood? Wood is good, the other is not, necessarily. Any source of cellulose (wood) is good. Additives are not, some can be hazardous.

[fredj338]

Are you getting the sawdust from plywood (with glue/adhesive) or actual wood? Wood is good, the other is not, necessarily. Any source of cellulose (wood) is good. Additives are not, some can be hazardous.

As I noted earlier post, no MDF, no plywood. You can still find it at home stores, just have to pay attention to what you are scooping up. I know they cut a lot of plywood, which isn't as much glue, but I use solid wood. A few cuts trhu a 2x4 will ield enough sawdust for many #s of smelting. I use a tbs for about 20#, stir w/ a large wood paint stick. When I cast, I just use the paint stick.

[Balduran]

pet stores have wood shavings for bedding. its all i use anymore as the kids get it in bags for the rotten smellie house weasle.

[H.Callahan]

pet stores have wood shavings for bedding. its all i use anymore as the kids get it in bags for the rotten smellie house weasle.
Just make sure you don't confuse the new stuff with the used stuff!

:kidding: