Ladle or bottom pour???

[zipdog]

I'm new to the site and am going to ask a question that has probably been asked 1000 times before. Which do you prefer - ladle or bottom pour? My limited experience with casting was 25-30 years ago with a friend, and I've never done any casting on my own or since. I want to get started, but I have a tendency to go overboard initially trying to get all the "right stuff". I'm not going to do that this time. Any suggestions for a rank novice? :confused:

[Bret4207]

Bottom pours are tools of satan. Start with a ladle.

[leftiye]

I guess that makes me a devil? I think the worst that could be said (if anyone did it wrong) would be that they made a less-than-best choice. That being said there are members here that swear by (or at) either method. However, I suspect that Lyman or whoever had a reason for inventing the bottom pour pot.

[Duckiller]

Ladles plug up. Bottom pour is very simple.

[Bret4207]

Humor boys, humor.

[MGySgt]

I have never had a Ladel with Spout Freeze like I have with a bottom pour.

[NVcurmudgeon]

The first few years of casting I used both methods off and on, but for the last forty years of serious casting I have ladle cast exclusively. Both methods have good and bad points. I made my choice according to which bad points bugged me the most.

Bottom pours need not be fluxed, simply float a layer of kitty litter on top to keep dross-forming oxygen out of your alloy. Therefore bottom pours can make boolits faster. Bottom pours don't splash alloy all over when they aren't defective.

Dip pots don't dribble alloy from a "closed" pouring spout as some bottom pour pots do, an irritation that I really dislike. Nor do dip pots clog up and interrupt casting. A medium to large size ladle casting pot can be used for smelting without getting the pouring spout full of foreign matter. And the main reason I ladle cast all my boolits is that ladle casting makes a higher percentage of perfect boolits for me.

[Dutch4122]

...................... the main reason I ladle cast all my boolits is that ladle casting makes a higher percentage of perfect boolits for me.

Couldn't have said it any better myself..................:)

[Jon K]

There is no right or wrong answer here. Fords & Chevy......................

Here's my take on this:

Bigger Boolits & BP- Ladle, Bret, NV & Dutch very well said. That's what I do for what I consider quality and consistancy.

Smokeless & High production rate- Bottom Pour. 4-6 cavty if I can get it.

This thread will open the proverbeal can of worms.

Jon
:castmine:

[carpetman]

I ladle cast for the first several years,then got a bottom pour. I'd never go back to ladle.

[dragonrider]

Yup count me a devil, bottom pour is the only way for me.

[piwo]

This appears to be the "M16/AK47 or .223 vs 7.62X39 debate. Leave me out. I have a ladle but never used it because I had a bottom pour furnace and no plain pot. Now I have a pot that I could use, so I'll try it as well. A re-learning curve I'm sure, but I will be loading big BP boollits, so maybe I should give it a try sooner and not later.......

[45nut]

looks similar to the late great 9mm vs 45acp debacles of the late 80's, early 90's that were in every other publication and then rotated to the next rag at least monthly although I have no doubt some rags had the articles doubled up in some.


I started with a round ball mold casting for my 58 and my various bp handguns,, then went to casting with a dc lyman hangun mold for a few years more. As I gained on the mold selection I went to the www looking for some like minded folks and found the late great casting room at shooters.com.
It was there the bug really bit and injected the silver stream addiction. I was directed to the Lee Pro 4-20 then and I totally approve of the transition.
Remember,,never smelt ww's in the casting pot if it is a bottom pour.
Welcome to the home of the Silver Stream.

[imashooter2]

I get better bullets with a dipper, but the Siren song of faster production has me using the bottom pour more and more.

[jhalcott]

Zip, if you want speed for plinking loads. then bottom pour is the fastest way to cast a BUNCH of bullets. If you want the most accurate Heavy ,big bullets then maybe ladling is the way. I am lazy and just want to have fun. So I bottom pour 95% of my bullets. I haven't used my ladle in a year. Once I get my alloy clean and up to temperature I have no problems with spout freeze ups. My lee pot is a dripper and I can live with that for the speed I get using 2& 6 cavity molds.

[STP]

I had difficulty bottom pouring early on. Switched to a ladle and the problems vanished. I`ve since learned which moulds and alloy show a preference for each meathod. It basically boils down to the alloy and mould used. The flow rate and distance from the spout can make all the difference in either method.
I still prefer to ladle pour for most moulds.

[Ken O]

I'm a kitty litter floater kind of guy. I have never had the problems others have with the bottom pour. To each, thier own...

[leftiye]

I'm going to switch to floating powdered charcal. 3sixbits convinced me.

[pumpguy]

Bottom pours work good for sinkers, plinkers and anything you do not need a great deal of accuracy. If you are going for high quality and less mess, go with the ladle. I can actually cast nearly as fast with my ladle as with a bottom pour once I get going. No real right or wrong. Just preference.

[Duckiller]

Zip from the above posts you can see that there are two kinds of casters. I have never been able to cast a boolit with a ladle. My bottom pour drip-o-matic does a fine job when not dripping too much. Best advice would be to pick a method and learn it. Either way will produce good boolits. Enjoy Duckiller

[montana_charlie]

And the main reason I ladle cast all my boolits is that ladle casting makes a higher percentage of perfect boolits for me.
Bingo!

[Slowpoke]

And then there is the Rowell ladle that I prefer, much faster and less tiring to me than the Lyman or RCBS, I use the same technique with all moulds and haven't met one yet that wouldn't respond, good tool.

Good luck

[zipdog]

thanks, everyone, for taking the time to respond. Of 19 responses (thus far):

Ladle: 8
Bottom: 10
neutral: 1

This is about what the Lyman book said would be the case: Put 10 casters in a room, and there will be an even split between ladlers and bottom pourers.
I thought the comment about not melting WWs in a bottom pour was useful.

Why is the ladle preferable for larger bullets? I would have thought the bottom pour would have the advantage when a larger amount of lead is concerned...less time to cool off during the pour.

[dromia]

I'm a ladle caster especially for the bigger bullets .45 up.

When i started casting for pistol I got a Lee drip o matic 10 lber, the continuing leak irritated me along with the fact that I was getting better bullets dipping.

Due to back problems I tried to get back onto bottom pour with a Lee 20 lber, drip o matic in spades so its a dipper pot also now, got an RCBS pro melt and now I have a bottom pour that at least works, still get better big bullets dipping but will use the bottom pour more for .314 .310 7.92 6.5. Looking forward to some these six hole group buys coming through reckon the higher production rate will outweigh the higher rejection rate.

So dipper by inclination and choice but bottom pour has its place, with a decent pot.

Hell its all fun though.:-D

[bishopgrandpa]

Another who agrees witn Nvcurmudgeon. Been doing it for over forty years and can't put up with the nonsense of bottom pour. This is supposed to be fun while you work.

[BABore]

thanks, everyone, for taking the time to respond. Of 19 responses (thus far):

Ladle: 8
Bottom: 10
neutral: 1

This is about what the Lyman book said would be the case: Put 10 casters in a room, and there will be an even split between ladlers and bottom pourers.
I thought the comment about not melting WWs in a bottom pour was useful.

Why is the ladle preferable for larger bullets? I would have thought the bottom pour would have the advantage when a larger amount of lead is concerned...less time to cool off during the pour.

Add one more to the ladle column. I use either a RCBS or Rowell #1 Ladle, a gas fired 40 lb pot, and thermometer. I've never touched a bottom pour and have only formed an opinion of them based on what I've read here. This includes the problems like leakage, temperature control and heat coil problems. I also took note of threads that spoke of bullet weight variation and how they're poured.

To answer your question about pouring large bullets, a ladle gives better results because you can control the alloy flow rate and pressure of the pour. With a ladle your dealing with 4-16 ozs. of weigh forcing the stream, versus 10-20 lbs. Big bullets need a slower more gentle pour to get consistency. It's easier to cope with a mold's particular pour technique with a ladle. Many have mentioned the primary difference, speed, high production and higher reject rate vs. better consistency and low weight variation. I eyeball sort most of my general plinking bullets. Anything for load testing gets weighed. The most weight variation I've seen, in my 400 grain plus bullets, is +/- 0.4 grs by cavity. Smaller varmit calibers, like 30:-D , might only vary +/- 0.1 grs. Last Saturday I poured 300 311041 bullets from a 6C GB mold using a Rowell ladle. Took about 35-45 minutes. During my visual sort I rejected two bullets, and I'm picky.

It's your choice and pocket book. Start off cheap with a ladle, turkey fryer, thermometer, and cast iron pot. If you want more, get it latter as your needs/wants expand.

[Beau Cassidy]

Bottom pour for pistol up to .44. Ladle for all rifle and any pistol over .44. Ladle casting makes for a mo' betta' looking bullet and better fillout.

[HORNET]

A qualified vote for ladle. I have found that with my normal casting techniques and alloys, I get more consistant boolits with the ladle.
I do find that I can frequently produce acceptable quality with a bottom-pour but usually only on low sectional density (short & fat) designs:roll: . When switching to long, skinny slugs or cast hollow-points, I usually have to go to the ladle for good results. With some designs (266469 HP) , even that can get tricky [smilie=1: with some alloys.
You can use a ladle in many bottom pour pots, but I made it easier on my LEE 10 LB. dripper but pulling out the valving and tapping the spout for a plug screw:twisted: .

[DLCTEX]

Bottom pour for me. Tried the ladle first and didn't like it. Dale

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Bottom Pour = production & plinking accuracy
Ladle = precision cast and target accuracy.

Based on twenty-plus years at CBA and Schuetzen

Rich
DRSS

[Moose]

Either one makes good boolits - All things being equal (they never are, but so what?) the bottom pour spout ''should'' do the better job, what with no slag or junk inclusions, etc... On the other hand, with the ladle you can see what you get and the spout never freezes up. Some folks let the spout pour fall an inch or so before it hits the mold - that can be exciting. Never have gotten that to work well. Around here, mostly use pots with pour spouts, but not always.

[pdawg_shooter]

I get much better bullets with a dipper. All 3 of my pots have had the bp pluged by now.

[piwo]

Well, I tried the dipper for the first time tonight, with a T/C contender .54Cal mould I just got from floodgate. While not a total disaster, it was not to be confused with successful either. More rejects then anything, and I didn't end up having the time I thought I did to work on it (forgot dinner plans were previously made). The range of boolits was from 403.3 grain to 410.1 . That's WAY too large of a spread, so I will need to try again when I REALLY have the time to devote.

I don't think I'm cleaning my lead as well as I should. Never ending crap needs to be scraped off. But, I'm just learning here. I did get a handful of virtually the same weight to tenth of a grain, so with some more practice, maybe it will come. I find it difficult to pour into the tiny hole. I'm guessing it's just a learning thing.......

[Hunter]

I have tried both and though the bottom pour is a little faster I really like the ladle better. I have heard that with bottom pour it is easier to over heat a mold and get frosted bullets. I cast for .45 and .38 currently and I get better results from the ladle.
I also feel I have better control on my pot, I can flux and stir adding ingots as needed to the bigger mouth of the top pour.