Best molds

[nemesisenforcer]

New to the casting world and have the LEE 230 grain LRN mold for the 45 and the the LEE 158 SWC with gas check, both 6 cavities but I'm having issues with barrel leading and wondering if the bullet profiles are the problem.

So I'm wondering what are the best molds for 38/357, 45, 30 caliber, and 44 spl/mag?

[Buckshot]

.............I seriously doubt that the shape of the boolit is the culprit. BTW, there is leading, and then there is leading. You can have a superbly accurate load and experience what could technically be called leading. In the aforementioned case the leading wouldn't be cumulative, and if continually accurate isn't even worth mentioning. On the other hand I have personally seen a rifle being shot with cast lead that literally had lead slivers drooling out of the muzzle.

If you haven't had a chance to pick up the Lyman Cast Bullet manual, it would be a good idea to get ahold of one when you have a chance. Assuming the firearm itself doesn't have a problem, the usual culprits for leading is incorrect sizing (if sized), or incorrect alloy for the load. Another common happenstance is the boolit being re-sized by the case as the slug is seated.

ALL the reloading die makers know, without a doubt that you are reloading jacketed bullets at their nominal OD. Even if you're successfull in getting a cast lead slug to go into the casemouth without paring of a crescent of lead in the process, a (say) .359" cast lead slug going into a case sized to .354" ID to hold a .357" jacketed bullet can easily be sized down a couple thousandths in the process. And if a cast lead slug doesn't seal the barrel, the high pressure gas behind it WILL with great enthusiasm, find a way past and in the process erode the exterior of the lead alloy like an oxy-acet torch has been after it.

http://www.fototime.com/0F40FFA50960AF7/standard.jpg http://www.fototime.com/ABC5B082138E48F/standard.jpg

The above is with that hotrod of hotrod catridges, the 38 S&W 8-) The 3 revolvers I have in this cartridge ALL want at least a .362" slug. Left photo is a fired case, and Right photo is what the Lee FL size die sizes down to. No bueno por ca-ca when loading a soft lead slug at .363".

http://www.fototime.com/1E675673BEE6C9D/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/C395D3A150A9504/standard.jpg

This is what can happen. This may the problem, or it may be part of the problem. Something to look at in any regard.

..............Buckshot

[paul h]

I've shot alot of cast bullets from most every mold maker out there. Simply put, issues with leading will not be solved by changing mold manufacturer.

Leading has many factors, the as sized diameter of the bullet in comparison to the barrel dia, the lube you use, the alloy you cast from, and how much pressure your load develops. Add a gas check and you have more lee way concerning the bullet alloy.

What type of alloy are you casting with, what lube are you using, what dia are you sizing your bullets to, and what load i.e. pressure are you loading them too? I'd suggest with the 158gr swc, cast them from clip on wheel weights, but do not harden them. Add the gas check, size to .358" and lube with lbt blue. I would be highly suprised if you had leading issues and that's loaded across the board from 700 fps plinking loads to 1300+fps magnum loads.

[nemesisenforcer]

I've shot alot of cast bullets from most every mold maker out there. Simply put, issues with leading will not be solved by changing mold manufacturer.

Leading has many factors, the as sized diameter of the bullet in comparison to the barrel dia, the lube you use, the alloy you cast from, and how much pressure your load develops. Add a gas check and you have more lee way concerning the bullet alloy.

What type of alloy are you casting with, what lube are you using, what dia are you sizing your bullets to, and what load i.e. pressure are you loading them too? I'd suggest with the 158gr swc, cast them from clip on wheel weights, but do not harden them. Add the gas check, size to .358" and lube with lbt blue. I would be highly suprised if you had leading issues and that's loaded across the board from 700 fps plinking loads to 1300+fps magnum loads.

I'm using wheel weights that I water drop out of the mold. At first I didn't gas check but then started to and this solved most of the problem, but there was still some shearing going on.

I sized to .357 so I thought undersizing might be the issue, but I've shot some as cast (with no gas check because I can't seat the gas check without sizing the slug; I have all LEE equipment) and STILL have leading.

I use Lee Alox for lube, but I'm considering moving to a 45/45/10 mixture like I saw in the lube board and see if that corrects the issue?

I don't push into mag velocities; stay under 1000-1100 fps for my "heavy" loads, with most running 750-850 fps "normals."

[realfisher]

i use straight wheel weight lead in 38,45 acp and 44 ( low velocity) and get no leading. but i size 44 to .430 , 45 acp to .452 and 38 to .358 by using a star sizer. i had soft lube for my rcbs sizer and now im using rooster hard lube.
i would sujest not water dropping but get a metal container and fold up a clean rag to drop the bullets on.
none of the 44,45 acp or 38 spl i shoot have a gas check and dont see any leading

[462]

Moulds, as stated above, are not your problem. The primary cause of leading is poor boolit fir, but there are many others.

Have you slugged all the cylinder throats and barrels with a soft lead slug and them measured with a micrometer?

I've no experience with Alox or shooting a gas check designed boolit without the gas check, but according to the reports or many members, they are either iffy propositions or total failures.

Though gas checked, your 357" sized boolits are almost guaranteed to be too small. You already have the mould(s), but gas checks aren't necessary for the .357/.38 not .44 Spl/Mag.

Cast boolit casting and shooting requires much experiementation. To start, size .001" over the largest cylinder throat (revolver) or barrel (auto-loader). Let the boolits air-cool. Use a lube that has a better track record. Experiment with your alloy -- wheel weights may be too hard. You don't mention the powder(s) and load(s), but there may be better options.

Finally:
Do not get frustrated.
When experimenting, make one change at a time and test it before making another
Read, read, read. This site's archive and many sub-forums, and Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd or 4th editions will provide you with many of you questions and much knowledge.

[nemesisenforcer]

Moulds, as stated above, are not your problem. The primary cause of leading is poor boolit fir, but there are many others.

Have you slugged all the cylinder throats and barrels with a soft lead slug and them measured with a micrometer?

I've no experience with Alox or shooting a gas check designed boolit without the gas check, but according to the reports or many members, they are either iffy propositions or total failures.

Though gas checked, your 357" sized boolits are almost guaranteed to be too small. You already have the mould(s), but gas checks aren't necessary for the .357/.38 not .44 Spl/Mag.

Cast boolit casting and shooting requires much experiementation. To start, size .001" over the largest cylinder throat (revolver) or barrel (auto-loader). Let the boolits air-cool. Use a lube that has a better track record. Experiment with your alloy -- wheel weights may be too hard. You don't mention the powder(s) and load(s), but there may be better options.

Finally:
Do not get frustrated.
When experimenting, make one change at a time and test it before making another
Read, read, read. This site's archive and many sub-forums, and Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd or 4th editions will provide you with many of you questions and much knowledge.

I haven't slugged the barrels (mainly because I don't trust myself to pound something down the barrel of an expensive firearm) but I've shot unsized boolits and they still lead, so this is what makes me think the lube may be more of an issue than anything.

I'm about done experimenting. I'm not a patient man and get frustrated easily. I really don't need another thing in life that I suck at.

[462]

We can only offer our help and advise based on our experiences and what works, but the rest is up to you.

It seems that you've started down a road that you aren't meant to follow.

[nemesisenforcer]

We can only offer our help and advise based on our experiences and what works, but the rest is up to you.

It seems that you've started down a road that you aren't meant to follow.

meaning what exactly?

[kbstenberg]

Even if you shot un-sized bullets. If they are undersized they will lead.
You can use a wooden dowel to force a lead bullet through the cylinders and the barrel to determine what size bullets you need. For the cylinders of your revolver you can take one of your unsized bullets place one in each of your cylinders. Use a small dowel and see how much pressure it takes to force the bullet through each cylinder. If the bullets fall through, or takes little pressure to get them through the cylinders. You will know that your bullets are too small.
I agree with 462.
Kevin

[462]

You said this: "I'm about done experimenting. I'm not a patient man and get frustrated easily. I really don't need another thing in life that I suck at."

You've been given some excellent advise, but your statement left me with the impression that you don't have the patience and desire to follow it.

If you want to solve your leading problem, gather as much information as you can, form a plan of attack based on what you deem to be the best approach (boolit size and hardness, alloy, lube, powder, velocity, etc), implement one change at a time, and review the results. If the first experiment didn't prove successful, move on to the next one. Eventually, you'll solve the problem, but it may not be as fast and easy as you'd like.

[waksupi]

You said this: "I'm about done experimenting. I'm not a patient man and get frustrated easily. I really don't need another thing in life that I suck at."

You've been given some excellent advise, but your statement left me with the impression that you don't have the patience and desire to follow it.

If you want to solve your leading problem, gather as much information as you can, form a plan of attack based on what you deem to be the best approach (boolit size and hardness, alloy, lube, powder, velocity, etc), implement one change at a time, and review the results. If the first experiment didn't prove successful, move on to the next one. Eventually, you'll solve the problem, but it may not be as fast and easy as you'd like.

True story. To do cast boolits right, you need to be an experimenter, and a serious hand loader. Both take a methodical approach. This is not a hobby of instant gratification. For true success, you must work for it, and earn it.

[Lead Fred]

I have given all my Lee molds away, and have nothing but Ranch Dog molds, and sizers now. Gonna stay that way too.

[Jim]

True story. To do cast boolits right, you need to be an experimenter, and a serious hand loader. Both take a methodical approach. This is not a hobby of instant gratification. For true success, you must work for it, and earn it.

You got that right, brother!!

[paul h]

If you're shooting bullets that are undesized, and they are waterquenched ww's, i.e. hard bullets, you have a recipe for bad leading, even if you use the worlds greatest lube. Casting bullets that are accurate and don't lead really isn't difficult, but it does require paying attention to some key attributes.

WW's is a good alloy for cast handgun bullets, but rarely does it need to be water quenched to harden it, and when you add a gas check, air cooled ww's work well even at 2000 fps out of a rifle. Especially if your molds are dropping undersize, a softer alloy the obturates to fill the bore is what you want.

I'd suggest starting from a clean slate. Take your handguns and thouroughly clean the bore to remove all lead and any jacketed bullet fouling. Cast up another batch of bullets, but drop them onto a stack of red shop towels to air cool. Make sure your mold is well preheated and the bullets are frosted. Cast up several hundred. Visually inspect them and put any with visual defects into a pile to be remelted. Take your good bullets and in the case of the 38's, size them .358", for the 45 size them .452". Use a good lube, I'm partial to lbt blue soft. You should be able to shoot those bullets at plinker level 700 fps loads all the way up to magnum loads and not have anything more than some light leading.

Don't give up on casting yet, it can be a rewarding hobby.

[geargnasher]

You got that right, brother!!

+1 Jim, they BOTH got it right. Not everyone can be a mechanic or a salesman or an accountant etc, it takes a certain sort of mind for each, thank goodness we're not all born the same.

If you like to shoot a lot, cheaply, but don't enjoy reloading and casting for their own sake, my advice is shoot .22 rimfire for enjoyment. It's cheap, lots of fun, all sorts of rifles and pistols out there to choose from, and much simpler to see what the gun likes. Buy several brands of ammo and shoot some groups, see what works best in less than a hundred rounds, then stockpile that brand. Reload J-words or buy factory ammo for your centerfires.

Gear

[ColColt]

I can only say this from my own experience. I was getting an occasional crescent, I think was the term used, lead sliver when seating boolits. I used RCBS dies exclusively as I did back in 1969 when I first started reloading and never had cast lead at that point.

Recently, maybe a month ago, I pulled one of the boolits (.358") from a dummy round after sizing and flaring the case mouth and seating/lightly crimping and found a small amount of lead had been sheared off and the boolit was in places .356". Since then I was turned on to the Lyman M-die which does a much better job than RCBS and haven't had that problem again. Boolits slip right in the case and maybe it's imagination but accuracy is better and precious little leading if any. You may want to give that M-die a shot as it sure couldn't hurt. No more cock-eyed boolits either.

[doctorggg]

+1 on the Lyman M die.

[MikeS]

I have given all my Lee molds away, and have nothing but Ranch Dog molds, and sizers now. Gonna stay that way too.

Am I the only person that found the above statement funny? I could be wrong, but if you look at the sides of your moulds, and sizers, the only name you'll find on them is LEE. Granted they're designed by Ranch Dog, but they're made by LEE, the very folks whose moulds you've given away!

I have several Lee moulds, and there's nothing inherently wrong with them. Sure, QC isn't one of Lee's strong points, and there's possibly a better chance of getting a bad one than some other companies, but really most companies have gone the route of using their customer base as their QC departments, Lee isn't the only one. (Lyman comes to mind)

While Ranch Dog checks the moulds in general, he doesn't (that I'm aware of) check each and every one, so it's even possible to get a bad mould from him once in a while.

[MtGun44]

Mike - I thought the same thing. Strange.

Bill

[Love Life]

I doubt it was the LLA. I have run boolits at full throttle through the 454 Casull and 357 magnum lubed with LLA with no leading. Size is king. Just step back a bit and examine the problem. When I hit a wall like you have I take a step back, swear a little, and then get back at it.

Experiment and you will be rewarded greatly when you find that winning combination.

If you are getting leading from a 45 acp something isn't right...

[nemesisenforcer]

I doubt it was the LLA. I have run boolits at full throttle through the 454 Casull and 357 magnum lubed with LLA with no leading. Size is king. Just step back a bit and examine the problem. When I hit a wall like you have I take a step back, swear a little, and then get back at it.

Experiment and you will be rewarded greatly when you find that winning combination.

If you are getting leading from a 45 acp something isn't right...

It was the lube (mostly.) I made a homemade lube with Alox and Minwax and tried that and it virtually eliminated leading, though I'm still getting some film with the full power loads, so I think sizing is a factor, but not the only or even main one.

[arcticbreeze]

It was the lube (mostly.) I made a homemade lube with Alox and Minwax and tried that and it virtually eliminated leading, though I'm still getting some film with the full power loads, so I think sizing is a factor, but not the only or even main one.

I can tell you from experience that it is most likely the other way around. I believe boolit size or fit is the single most important factor. Years ago we did an experiment at the range I frequented because of an argument. I loaded properly sized unlubed and unchecked boolits to almost 1000 fps with out leading any more than a slight streak that wiped out with a quick patch after 40 rounds. We also loaded some from a lee mold known to be undersized for my gun. No matter which lube used we had various degrees of leading from the under sized boolits....Marc

[paul h]

The most helacious leading I ever had was a commercial hard cast 180 gr pistol bullet shot out of my 35 whelen at moderate ~1800 fps velocity. As I recall, the bullets were sized .356" and the leading was severe after only 20 rounds, i.e. it was coming out in long stips!

I've tried just about every lube out there, and most of them will prevent leading as well as any other. I have seen accuracy issues result from lubes, but as far as what causes leading, too small and too hard are the first concern, then you look at lube.

[nemesisenforcer]

The most helacious leading I ever had was a commercial hard cast 180 gr pistol bullet shot out of my 35 whelen at moderate ~1800 fps velocity. As I recall, the bullets were sized .356" and the leading was severe after only 20 rounds, i.e. it was coming out in long stips!

I've tried just about every lube out there, and most of them will prevent leading as well as any other. I have seen accuracy issues result from lubes, but as far as what causes leading, too small and too hard are the first concern, then you look at lube.

Well, I doubt they were too hard as they were cast from straight WW. All I know is, I got leading with bullets at all but the lowest velocities with Alox. As soon as I started using the Alox/Minwax formula, the leading was reduced by a factor of 10.