Greenhorn swaging questions

[Marlin Junky]

How accurate are 22CF bullets made from 22RF cases (in e.g., a Swift or 22-250) and how is the rim removed on the RF case?

Here's another:

I know this is how Vernon Speer started out but that was a bit before my time; therefore, I was wondering if his bullets might have produced a bit of stubborn fouling, especially at velocities over 3000 fps.

MJ

[Lizard333]

I have found that I am more accurate with the my 224's made from 22LR cases than I am with regular jacketed ammo I can buy.

The rim is just folded into the case.

I have heard of guys taking these bullets up over 3400FPS. I personally only have an AR platform so I am only pushing them to 2900. No problems there......

[Reload3006]

the bullets are very accurate. Not as accurate as those made with commercial jackets. But accurate enough that a prarie dog will never know the difference. There are a few people around the globe who actually shoot matches with 22lr brass jacketed bullets. as far as velocity goes most makers of the die sets will tell you because of the thickness of the jacket do not drive it much over 3000fps they may come apart. I cant vouch for that as I have never driven them that fast.
the rim on the case is removed by pressing the case through a derim die or really just a ring die
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee403/reload3006/DRAWDIE.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN1BrZM-U2Q

[Marlin Junky]

Thanks for the U-Tube link. Should the 22RF brass be sorted by manufacturer to ensure the brass alloy is consistent?

'Nuther Greenhorn question:

Is it practical to assume one can acquire a press that will do both reloading a swaging equally well, and if so, how much dough would it require to purchase said press?

Thanks again,
MJ

[Reload3006]

you will make better bullets if you do. The more consistent you can come the better the end product will be.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I am new to this section as well so here is another rookie question. What does a 22lr to a 224 bullet die set run? Last time I looked into it I want to say it was in the $500 plus range for a set of dies that will work with a standard press.

[Reload3006]

the price varies from who you get it from. anywhere from 400 up

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Wow, $400... No disrespect ment to the die makers here on the forum, but I can by a lot of factory bullets for that amount of money.

[Reload3006]

yes you can buy a lot of bullets for the cost of a swaging set up. But I will have bullets when you cant buy them. I got into swaging after BO got elected and there was the panic buy from everyone around and there was no bullets to buy at any price. Now I dont care I can make them.

[Lizard333]

yes you can buy a lot of bullets for the cost of a swaging set up. But I will have bullets when you cant buy them. I got into swaging after BO got elected and there was the panic buy from everyone around and there was no bullets to buy at any price. Now I dont care I can make them.

I second this. Let them try to put a serial number on a bullet I made myself. Besides, the 224's made from 22LR are almost free. Plus, you get the satisfaction of turning a prairie dog in to burger, with a bullet you made yourself ;)

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Oh believe me I hear you all, I just will have to save up for a while. How do homemade bullets stand up to the faster 1-9 twists found in ARs?

[Utah Shooter]

Oh believe me I hear you all, I just will have to save up for a while. How do homemade bullets stand up to the faster 1-9 twists found in ARs?

I shoot mine out of a 1:8 twist with .550 5 shot groups.

If you guys ever have an hour or so to kill start with this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN_fYyl8pEw&feature=related and then follow the yellow brick road to the rest of the series. This is a more expensive way to go to make projectiles. There are cheaper sets as well as doing it on a reloading press that you already have.

I am no genius but any are welcome to call me for a chat.

[firefly1957]

The only ones I have had go to pieces were some 39 gr bullets I loaded up to about 3700f/s they shot fine at around 3300. I have loaded some 55gr bullets in sabots at over 4000f/s and they held together fine.
You can make cores of shot to I like 9 #2 shot in a federal case for a 55 gr bullet that is not likely to ricochet. The shot are put in 6 first then pressed solid then the last three then point formed. Groups go from 3/4" solid core to 1 1/2 inch with shot core at 100yds from my gun.

[DukeInFlorida]

BUT..........

I can make thousands of bullets when I want them. I can vary the weight as I need to. And, the gov't can never tell me I can't buy them...... Oh, and my own store (my workshop) never runs out of my favorite weights. And, no shipping charges cause I make them myself.


Wow, $400... No disrespect ment to the die makers here on the forum, but I can by a lot of factory bullets for that amount of money.

[BT Sniper]

I shot my 55 grain bullets from my Savage 12BVSS with 26" 1-9 twist barrel at 3500FPS. All of them hit target no problems. Accuracy was better at 3300 or 3100 FPS so far. Still testing but all the stories of these home made bullets coming apart is still just that, stories and folklore to me as I have not seen one yet.

22 cal dies are not cheap, because they are not easy to make. They are a small caliber that requires a great deal of skill and precision. I as well used to think $800 was a lot to spend on a set of Corbin dies, then I tried to make my own. Took me a long time to get it right. Sundenly I found that Corbin's prices are not that bad.

There are certainly many other swage die calibers that are easier on the pocket book. Like the 40 cal. Only takes one die and you wil be shooting for less then the cost of 22lr. Don't let the cost of 22 cal swage dies scare off all that are interested in swaging. Simply ask around at what people think of shooting other calibers that may be less expensive and if they are having any fun with it :) I think many will find out that it is very rewarding to make your own no matter how many bullets they make.

Just FYI the first year I had my 44 cal set of dies I made and documented 10,000 44 cal bullets from 40S&W brass!

One other thing to consider is the ability to make different weight bullets without having to buy a full box. Half the fun with making your own is exploring all the options availble to you, and when you have a set of quality 22 cal dies nearly anything is possible.

For those that make 22 cal bullets, it is possible to regain your cost very quickly but most swage as a hobby and enjoy the fact they can make their own no matter how much they spent or how many bullets they make. I tell everyone Swaging is a hobby and like any hobby we can spend as little or as much as we like on our hobby. There are certainly worse things to spend our money on. Not to mention how easy it is for us to spend $800 on a new AR-15, or new riffle or pistol, yet find it difficult to spend that amount on quality swage dies. I bet most have a gun in their safe that could easily cover the cost of a new hobby dirrection :)

For those that do chose to swage 22 cal I have found it completly possible to make 250 bullets a night completing every step of the process along the way with my dies. That was not a lot of work or effort but mearly an average for me. For those that have the time or live in the Pacific NW like I do, where the winters are long, cold and wet, that is a lot of time to make bullets.

If you are not going to get that feeling of satisfaction from manufacturing you own ammo right down to the bullet then swaging might not be worth your time but for those of us that have ever shown any of our bullets to those that have never seen a bullet made from scrap brass the feeling of acomplishment and satisfaction is priceless! If the look on their face isn't enough for you then maybe shooting a .215 group or taking two NE Oregon mule deer with bullets you made from scrap brass will provide a bit of satisfaction, I'm sure there are many other great acomplishments from shooters that are making there own rather then buying commercial made bullets.

Take control of your shooting needs and have a bit of fun while your at it.

I say good shooting and swage on!

BT

[Lizard333]

Well said BT. I just want to know where your getting an AR for 800$? ;). I just spent 1300$.

[Utah Shooter]

??? We get them around here for 650!

[Reload3006]

LOL If you cant get it at Walmart you dont need it ... Wally world at my house is selling them for around that price. Well Said BT. That just about sums it up.

[DukeInFlorida]

Last time I bought .224 bullets, it was a box of 6,000 pcs from Natchez:
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=HO2267B
The price was $547 last time I bought them.

I can certainly beat that price making my own, and that was the last time I'll be buying .224 bullets from anyone.

[midnight]

Does anyone here trim their 22lr jackets? If so, what method do you use?. I have a Forster trimmer that works to trim 5.7x28 using the post 2009 #4 collet and a 280 pilot. I also have an RCBS trimmer with the lever to hold the cases and a Wilson trimmer. Maybe I should check the .219 Wasp file trim die. The problem is how to hold the jacket. I know most will tell me to sort by headstamp. I may end up doing just that.

Bob

[sargenv]

If I were going to trim 22 lr brass, I'd probably drill a hole in a square piece of metal (to place it into the vice) and use the rim of the brass as a head space so to speak.. The brass would fit finger tight and could be pushed out by some sort of punch.

[BT Sniper]

I have also thought about this a bit. I made a shell holder to work in my RCBS trimer. I might actually have some comercialy made in future, maybe not for the 22LR but possibly for the 22mag cases to trim for use with heavier 22s or 243 bullets.

BT

[Marlin Junky]

Can we talk about presses for a moment?

My 40 year old Pacific "O" Press is starting to show signs of age and I was thinking of upgrading to something I can also swage bullets. Is it practical to assume one can acquire a press that will do both reloading a swaging equally well, and if so, how much dough would it require to purchase said press?

I'm also curious (because of die prices) if the start-up cost would be less to create .243's from 17HMR and 22WMR brass than .224's from 22LR.

Thank you,
MJ

[BT Sniper]

243 will cost more but only slightly. They both require the same amount of dies yet with the 243 from 22mag cases you have to trim them first so that will add cost and time. Add on to it that 22 mag brass is not as plentyful as 22lr and that will add to your cost as well.

As for a good press.... to make 22s with? Any decent reloading press would work. I like Lee Classic simply because they are easier to alter to make a better seage press out of. A good press for all swaging needs????? Well I don't own one or have even seen one up close but the RCE sea girt is looking pretty good to me. RCE says you can't reload on it though.

BT

[Marlin Junky]

As for a good press.... to make 22s with? Any decent reloading press would work. I like Lee Classic simply because they are easier to alter to make a better seage press out of. A good press for all swaging needs????? Well I don't own one or have even seen one up close but the RCE sea girt is looking pretty good to me. RCE says you can't reload on it though.

BT

I'm only interested in .224 and .243... not going to swage anything larger. Can .243 bullets be made from 22LR cases? I realize there is about .017" difference in O.D. between 22LR and 22WMR cases but at .239" O.D., even the 22WMR needs to be stretched a few thou. in order to form a .224" jacket.

Here's another question:

Wouldn't it make the jacket forming process easier on the swaging equipment if the 22LR cases are annealed before swaging?

MJ

[Lizard333]

Does anyone here trim their 22lr jackets? If so, what method do you use?. I have a Forster trimmer that works to trim 5.7x28 using the post 2009 #4 collet and a 280 pilot. I also have an RCBS trimmer with the lever to hold the cases and a Wilson trimmer. Maybe I should check the .219 Wasp file trim die. The problem is how to hold the jacket. I know most will tell me to sort by headstamp. I may end up doing just that.

Bob

I just ordered a pinch die from RCE. I guess he's swamped right night. I ordered my stuff three weeks ago and he has yet to ship that and my boat tail die for my 224 dies. Glad to hear he's busy.

[Utah Shooter]

Here's another question:

Wouldn't it make the jacket forming process easier on the swaging equipment if the 22LR cases are annealed before swaging?

MJ
It would but it makes it softer so you tend to get more cases where the punch goes through the case.

[Reload3006]

you should really anneal them after you derim them. it will give you much better success when point forming, You cannot reload on the Seagirt press but you can on the Walnut hill, you can also do both on Corbins S press, I suppose most of the regular O frame presses will give you all you need to swage with. If your only planning on swaging 243 and 224 projectiles for the 243 you would just need an additional core seat die and point form die. the core swage die is the same for both. yes you can make lighter 243 bullets from LR brass heavier from mag brass if you cut the mouth off you can use 17HMR brass for 243 bullets too. I would imagine the Lyman Orange crusher and the Redding press would be good presses for swaging and if you choose you can go dr blackmon route and you have a combination swage reload press by changing out the ram. I think Dr blackmon charges about a hundred for the conversion kit.

[Marlin Junky]

you should really anneal them after you derim them. I was going to do that anyway.
...it will give you much better success when point forming, You cannot reload on the Seagirt press but you can on the Walnut hill, you can also do both on Corbins S press, I suppose most of the regular O frame presses will give you all you need to swage with. If your only planning on swaging 243 and 224 projectiles for the 243 you would just need an additional core seat die and point form die. the core swage die is the same for both. yes you can make lighter 243 bullets from LR brass heavier from mag brass if you cut the mouth off you can use 17HMR brass for 243 bullets too. I would imagine the Lyman Orange crusher and the Redding press would be good presses for swaging and if you choose you can go dr blackmon route and you have a combination swage reload press by changing out the ram. Don't want to change anything but the dies.
I think Dr blackmon charges about a hundred for the conversion kit.

MJ

[taminsong]

Very nice read!