got mauser 8 x 57 any tips

[melter68]

Hi Guys,
got the above rifle, even though i know firearms, do you have any tips, always better to ask, either in its operation etc.

My next range weekend is in June so i have a bit of time to look into this rifle.

Great old rifle and ex military too.

cheers chris in england

[UBER7MM]

Melter68,

The first thing I would do for any new or "new to me" gun would be to clean it. Especially if it's a surplus weapon: degrease the barrel and action. Is your new best friend a military Mauser? i.e., KAR98/VZ-24/Yogo or Turk, etc...? You can find instructions on the web for field strip the bolt and the like.

What kind of ammo will you be firing in your Mauser? You may want to slug your barrel because there are 2 diameters for this cartridge.

7.92x57 I = .318" groove diameter.
7.92x57 IS = .323" groove diameter.

You will also see the 'I' as a 'J'. (7.92x57 JS, old German scripted 'I's look like 'J's or so the story goes.)

The IS (JS) .323" bullet could cause excessive pressures fired in a I (J) .318" diameter barrel. The German Army rebored their rifles in ~1905 to .323" but left the bore diameter at ~.311", if I'm not mistaken. But to assume that got to every single rifle would be a stretch. Moreover, the commerical markets in Germany produced the .318" diameter rifles for hunting between the World Wars (Versailes Treaty requirements, I believe).

There is also a rimmed version of the .318", made for Drillings, etc. I don't have my books in front of me to verify a .323" rimmed version as well. Other members: chime in at any time!

If you are going to shoot cast boolits, then generally you'll need to set the rear site to about 400-600 Meters for a 100 yard shot. Your gun and load may vary your site in. You'll find that surplus ammo and steel butt plate makes "a man" out of one, especially shooting from a rifle bench.

What are the gun law like in the UK? I was under the impression that it is extremely difficult to legally obtain firearms in England. Post some photos if you can.

Good hunting/targeting,

[melter68]

Melter68,

The first thing I would do for any new or "new to me" gun would be to clean it. Especially if it's a surplus weapon: degrease the barrel and action. Is your new best friend a military Mauser? i.e., KAR98/VZ-24/Yogo or Turk, etc...? You can find instructions on the web for field strip the bolt and the like.

What kind of ammo will you be firing in your Mauser? You may want to slug your barrel because there are 2 diameters for this cartridge.

7.92x57 I = .318" groove diameter.
7.92x57 IS = .323" groove diameter.

You will also see the 'I' as a 'J'. (7.92x57 JS, old German scripted 'I's look like 'J's or so the story goes.)

The IS (JS) .323" bullet could cause excessive pressures fired in a I (J) .318" diameter barrel. The German Army rebored their rifles in ~1905 to .323" but left the bore diameter at ~.311", if I'm not mistaken. But to assume that got to every single rifle would be a stretch. Moreover, the commerical markets in Germany produced the .318" diameter rifles for hunting between the World Wars (Versailes Treaty requirements, I believe).

There is also a rimmed version of the .318", made for Drillings, etc. I don't have my books in front of me to verify a .323" rimmed version as well. Other members: chime in at any time!

If you are going to shoot cast boolits, then generally you'll need to set the rear site to about 400-600 Meters for a 100 yard shot. Your gun and load may vary your site in. You'll find that surplus ammo and steel butt plate makes "a man" out of one, especially shooting from a rifle bench.

What are the gun law like in the UK? I was under the impression that it is extremely difficult to legally obtain firearms in England. Post some photos if you can.

Good hunting/targeting,
Well thanks umber7mm,

The older type ww1 and ww2 rifles i have never fired, apart from a sten gun.

This looks a very intresting topic.

The gun laws in the uk are strict, but if you are ex military it helps, i have about 9 rifles and 1 pistol and 4 shotguns.

All mind are kept in a steel bar reinforced room and have a alarm direct to the police, so that also helps.

Shooting is very still alive in england and we are not allowed auto matic weapons, shame.

I will try and get info off my gun and look into it.

I also will try to put pics on here too.
cheers chris

[melter68]

Some of my guns,

rifle saiga win 308 with my own made dragunov stocks and second 357 long barrel 7 round revolver with arm brace, third .223 savage 110.

hope you like

[UBER7MM]

Melter68,

Those are some pretty pieces you have there. I'll bet you have some real fun on the shooting range!

[melter68]

Yes and on the military ranges too, great days out

[UBER7MM]

melter68,

Do you have an update on the performance of your new toy? Please advise.

Thank you and regards,

[Buckshot]

.................As with any new rifle (especially X-Military) ya gotta slug it. No special issues with the 8x57 unless it runs oversized, as moulds for "to spec" 8mm's aren't plentififull, let alone fat ones. I was quite disdainfull of the Turk 8mm's when they first appeared, thinking what good would they be? When I finally caved in to the fact of how neat it was to be aboe to buy a high powered centerfire rifle for $69 I was pleasantly surprised. And how nice a first purchase worked out that way, eh?

http://www.fototime.com/4081B75BF8E1589/standard.jpg

I ended up with 4 of'em. From the top is a M88 that has become a M1935. The Turks put into a M38 stock and rebarreled it.

http://www.fototime.com/CDBFBF007F1D86B/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/6CF8A6276D674E3/standard.jpg

This is one shooting essobee! With a custom GB 240 gr slug over 56grs of TCCI 5020 ball (50 cal MG powder), it launches at 1950 fps and is VERY accurate. Not a love tap, but it's such a fine shooter I use that load as a standard for this rifle.

Second is a generic M38. It has an Imperial German or Czech action, marked TC, Asfa, Ankara. The Turkish barrels were a surprise at how consistent they were. This one has a .323" groove and shoots most anything sized to .324/.325". It does a superb job with the ubiqitous Lee (and the 6 cav GB) 175gr slug over 16.0 2400 as to be boring. For plinking why search further?

Third down is a M38/46:

http://www.fototime.com/7505257ECA355E4/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/A0F9BDA6CE5280B/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/6341720553B1CB7/standard.jpg

This was one of a "3fer/$100" from SOG IIRC (I had an FFL). I kept this one and sold the other 2. A friend turned his into a 35 Whelen. The Turkish answer to the German K38. This one has the indeginous K.Kale action, but it nonetheless another fine shooting rifle. Again the barrel is very fine for a military rifle, and is egar to please.

Finally the bottom creation, and not as recieved. It was a M38 but had a less then pristine barrel and ended up being what I figured ALL the Turkish Mausers would be. While solid, it had a barrel that was very worn, and worn out toward the muzzle.

http://www.fototime.com/0F9B03F30F585C2/standard.jpg

I called it, "The Turk Mauser that Should have been". Come to fnd out the Turks did have one very similar in their M1905. I'd shortened the barrel, sectioned the stock and fabricated the nose piece. While not as nice a shooter as the other 3, it would do okay for open sight (100 yard) hunting, and was handy. Naturally as soon as I became a fan of the inexpensive Turksh Mausers the prices went up and the supply dried up. But I figured having 3 nice representative pieces was enough. Kept me from feeling sorry for myself anyway :-)

...............Buckshot

[melter68]

Hi Guys,

Its a m48 model and i found a great web site, Mauser 98k unofficial website,
its a great site.
Got some russian 8 x 57 brass from 1956, 155 cases, berdan primers, so i have got a tool to get primers out.
As for cal, i think its a 324 and not 329, unless someone tells me different.

Michells mausers in the states have a great user manual and i recon mind was made in the war, but never used and held back for the reserve forces if needed.

Well thats all i know, i will take it easy and wait for replies, which are much welcome.
cheers chris

[melter68]

Nice pics Buckshot, well worth the effort, i much enjoyed.
cheers chris

[bcp477]

If the rifle in question is an M48, then it is a Yugoslav Mauser 98 copy. Not an exact copy of the German K98k, but quite similar. The M48 is a large-ring action, but an "intermediate length action" (the action is approx. 6.5 mm shorter than the full-length Mausers). The M48s ALL were built for the 7.92 x 57 JS round....and thus, have 0.323" (groove diameter) barrels. This is the same as such rifles as the WWII German Kar98k, the Czech Vz24, etc.

The M48 is an updated model, based very closely on the earlier M24/47 Yugoslav Mauser, which was actually designed by FN, in Belgium. FN, in fact, set up the factory in Kragujevac, Serbia for the Yugoslavs and provided the tooling and machinery.

The M48 is a solid, reliable and most often accurate Mauser "copy". The barrels tend to be very good, often deserving more credit than they get. The only aspect of the Yugo rifles which tends to be a bit below the standard of the German or Czech ones is the quality of the finishing....and often, the stocks are a bit rough.

I have an M48, which I rebuilt myself (into a "sporter"). I used an original Yugoslav spare barrel....and a surplus M24/47 stock. The stock is from the 1930's, and is a VERY nice piece of walnut, with lots of figure, including tiger striping. My M48 is my favorite rifle - and very accurate.

[melter68]

Hi bcp477,

my mauser is a yogo make, as per the markings and its a 324 dia barrel, as you say the wood work is a bit rough, overall a nice rifle, good weight, it was worth $200 i paid for it.
The story behind these guns is very intresting indeed, again its a gun i know little about but enjoy finding out and i look forward to reloading the ammo.

I picked up a new lee single cavity mold for 324 for $15 and a lyman die set for $17,
so all i need is the size and lube kit in 323 and i cannot wait to get started.
We are going to a military range in july so can shoot 100m to 600m, that should be fun.
Again thanking you all for helping me find out about this rifle, keep you posted

[UBER7MM]

Melter68,

Sounds like you are getting the sweet deals. Sizing at .325" seems to work well. You can go a couple of thousands over with lead with out problems. Some prefer it, actually.

Good hunting,

[melter68]

When i get my camera working i will put some pics on for you.
cheers chris

and again thank you for your help with this weapon, i will enjoy it alot more now.

[gew98]

Melter68,

The first thing I would do for any new or "new to me" gun would be to clean it. Especially if it's a surplus weapon: degrease the barrel and action. Is your new best friend a military Mauser? i.e., KAR98/VZ-24/Yogo or Turk, etc...? You can find instructions on the web for field strip the bolt and the like.

What kind of ammo will you be firing in your Mauser? You may want to slug your barrel because there are 2 diameters for this cartridge.

7.92x57 I = .318" groove diameter.
7.92x57 IS = .323" groove diameter.

You will also see the 'I' as a 'J'. (7.92x57 JS, old German scripted 'I's look like 'J's or so the story goes.)

The IS (JS) .323" bullet could cause excessive pressures fired in a I (J) .318" diameter barrel. The German Army rebored their rifles in ~1905 to .323" but left the bore diameter at ~.311", if I'm not mistaken. But to assume that got to every single rifle would be a stretch. Moreover, the commerical markets in Germany produced the .318" diameter rifles for hunting between the World Wars (Versailes Treaty requirements, I believe).

There is also a rimmed version of the .318", made for Drillings, etc. I don't have my books in front of me to verify a .323" rimmed version as well. Other members: chime in at any time!

If you are going to shoot cast boolits, then generally you'll need to set the rear site to about 400-600 Meters for a 100 yard shot. Your gun and load may vary your site in. You'll find that surplus ammo and steel butt plate makes "a man" out of one, especially shooting from a rifle bench.

What are the gun law like in the UK? I was under the impression that it is extremely difficult to legally obtain firearms in England. Post some photos if you can.

Good hunting/targeting,

Some clarifications ; The germans went to the S patronen in 1903 not 1905. The S patrone bullet was nominally 154 grains and had a very small area for bore contact and a very pointed ogive. The berman military started going to .321 bores on their gew88's early on in their production of the gew88 in the 1890's as they found the cupronickeled 215 grain bullets caused alot of fouling that lead to excessive pressures to burst barrels. The change to .321 bores solved that issue as well as openning the throat to roughly 2 1/2 calibers in length.
The european civilian community ( gun guilds ) never made that change to bore diameters before WW2 , hence you can find all manner of sloppy to fine quality 7,9 sporters using the original Patronen 88 bore dimensions which would cause high pressures using modern .323 bullets and with surplus 7,92 ammo.
The change to the Ss Patronen shortly after WW1 only further confuses the issue to some. The 196 gn boat tailed heavy bullet with considerably more bullet contacting the bore is bad karma in .318 and .321 bores with mannlicher actions and unknown quality european guild made rifles with those tight bores & throats.
Even when the germans started producing S.m.E. substitute rifles bullets in WW2 with their nominal 177 gn weight they still had the same amount of bullet to bore contact as the 196 grainer Ss patronen and just as heavy charge...still not cool for use with mannlichers and guild guns with those under .323 bores.

[725]

melter68-
You may find an article up in "Classics & Stickies" (First section on the home page) on converting berdan primers to boxer. Very good and worth the read.

[melter68]

Hi

gew98 and 725,

intresting reading, this rifle has a very intresting history and i am glad to be part of its future.
cheers chris

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have an old Vaguero and a K Kale turk. I have only used jacketed so far. Looking good though. Sights are a bit ordinary as I am not a 19 year old soldier!

[melter68]

I have an old Vaguero and a K Kale turk. I have only used jacketed so far. Looking good though. Sights are a bit ordinary as I am not a 19 year old soldier!

So the vaguero is a pistol i think and the turk rifle looks cool tool.

We all get older but feel as young as we like.

[Four Fingers of Death]

So the vaguero is a pistol i think and the turk rifle looks cool tool.

We all get older but feel as young as we like.

The Ruger Vaquero is a Single Action Handgun, sort of a modern rendition of a Colt (coil springs, etc). The rifle I'm talking about is a Portugese Mauser rifle. Here is a link to a youtube clip about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_YuytaM8jg

Vergueiro is the correct spelling, I got it wrong on my original post. They were all built before WW! and as such exhibit excellent workmanship.

I have been overseas for awhile and haven't picked it up yet, i will get some pics when I do.

[UBER7MM]

Gew98,

Thanks for the clarifications. I knew someone would chime in...

Fourfingers is about the Mauser-Vergueiro aka, Portuguese Mauser.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser-Vergueiro

[melter68]

Gew98,

Thanks for the clarifications. I knew someone would chime in...

Fourfingers is about the Mauser-Vergueiro aka, Portuguese Mauser.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser-Vergueiro

Dont worry Uber7mm, you cannot remember everything.

Nice rifle fourfingermick, i bet its a dream to shoot

[Hamish]

Melter, am wondering if you documented the making of the Saiga stock, I'm sure there are fellows here that would enjoy seeing it.

[Good Cheer]

My j-word 8mm is a Heinrich Barella. Lever at magazine, integral raised rib, double sets, flip up long range leaf. Made of course with the .320" groove diameter. My boolit 8mm is the long barreled Turk on the 1888 action that was rebarreled by Richard Hoch. The only advice I'd give is to have fun with a really excellent .32 cartridge!

[melter68]

I am going to take the wood work off and restore, what colour varnish or stain should i use.
cheers chris