Question About "M" Dies

[alamogunr]

I'm getting ready to dip my toe into the "M" die pool. From my reading various articles, it looks like there are only 2 sizes of bodies, one plug holder and various size expander plugs. Is this correct?

I've checked most of the mail order houses and don't find anything but complete "M" dies. This seems like a waste of money. I would think 2 bodies, 2 plug holders and various sizes of expander plugs would be the most flexible way to use "M" dies.

This article is where I got most of my information:

http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_LymanMDies.htm

As the article indicates there are some cartridges that require a special die. I assume that means a special body. I doubt that I own any rifles that require a special die.

Can anyone straighten me out??

[Maven]

John, I think Joe B's right about that: You need a 30L for .30-06 length cartridges and the other one (30 M or S if memory serves) for the others. Probably your best bet in finding the plugs and expanders is through Lyman, but they won't be the least expensive. Ebay may be another option, but then you'll wind up paying multiple shipping charges. Btw, I used the 30 L M die to expand the '06 as well as the 7.5 Swiss, the 7.62 x 54R, and 7.65 x 53mm for years with no problems to speak of. The 7.62 x 39mm, however, needed a shorter die body.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I ordered a handful of "M" die expander plugs direct from Lyman to use with my 2 die bodies. There are skilled people on this site that will make custom size expanders for you at a nominal fee.Robert

[alamogunr]

Thanks for the clarifications. I think I will order one each of the long and short. I have application for the .30-06, 7.5X55 and 7.62X54R as well as .30-30, which according to the article requires the short body.

I will contact Lyman for price on expander plugs. It sounds like some experience is needed to be able to specify step dimensions for odd sizes. For example, I haven't slugged or taken a throat casting of my 8X57 Yugo Mauser. The 03A3 could possibly use either plug listed in the article since the grooves measure .3093 and the throat(such as it is) mikes .3015 and tapers down to the rifling. I haven't tried cast with it yet. Only received it last week.

Taylor: Is it better to order expanders complete or to furnish a larger expander to be turned to final dimensions?

[Larry Gibson]

If you are loading for more than long and short .30 cals you will tire very quickly of changing the expander plugs into various die bodies for different cartridges, unless you really enjoy that ost of thing. Adjusting the stem for various length cartridges of the same caliber is irksome to some. Eventually you will have a die body for each caliber if not for each cartridge.

I have some M dies that are cartridge specific and others that are caliber specific. On the latter I measure the distance from the top of the stem to the top of the die and record that distance for each cartridge of the same calibe. I can then, with little fuss, quickly adjust the M die for the specific cartridge at hand.

Larry Gibson

[rda72927]

I have a M-Die for every pistol I load for, but sometimes the plug gets loose. Finally decieded to use some red theadlocker. Anyone else run into this?

[C.F.Plinker]

If you get the 30-06 M die you will have the long body with the 30 plug. A 32-20 will give you the short body with the 31 plug. This will let you mix and match both the long and short bodies and the 30 and 31 plugs.

The plug holders for both of these bodies are the same length. Lyman does have a longer plug holder but it is normally just used with very short pistol cartridges.

[alamogunr]

If you are loading for more than long and short .30 cals you will tire very quickly of changing the expander plugs into various die bodies for different cartridges, unless you really enjoy that ost of thing. Adjusting the stem for various length cartridges of the same caliber is irksome to some. Eventually you will have a die body for each caliber if not for each cartridge.

I have some M dies that are cartridge specific and others that are caliber specific. On the latter I measure the distance from the top of the stem to the top of the die and record that distance for each cartridge of the same calibe. I can then, with little fuss, quickly adjust the M die for the specific cartridge at hand.

Larry Gibson

I hadn't really thought along those lines. I guess I'll find out pretty quickly if I get my feet wet with a complete die for the .30-06 and then use it for 7.5X55 for instance.

Do the dies come with instructions for setting the expander stem to enter the neck of the brass for a given dimension?

[Larry Gibson]

Do the dies come with instructions for setting the expander stem to enter the neck of the brass for a given dimension?

Yes.

Larry Gibson

[MGySgt]

I hate to adjust those things so I just buy an M die for each caliber I load. Just bought an extra 30 cal for the 308W

I now have 3 - 30/30, 308W and 30-06.

[462]

My M-die experience:
1. If your .30 caliber boolits are fatter than .308", get the 31R expander plug.

2. The long, M-2 rifle die body can be used for the .30-30.

3. A small lock-washer. the same diameter as the expander plug, will prevent the expander plug from backing out, and allows for ease of plug changeability.

4. Since the expander plugs are machined for jacketed bullet use, they are usually too skinny for cast boolits. Buckshot, and possibly others, can make the size(s) you require.

5. Lyman charges $4.95 per plug.

[Mal Paso]

I have a M-Die for every pistol I load for, but sometimes the plug gets loose. Finally decieded to use some red theadlocker. Anyone else run into this?

Yep! Used Blue Loctite.

[Littlewolf]

here is my question on M dies since it was mention they are machined for j-words
for example in both my friends 222rem and my 22 hornet both seem good with a 225 dia boolit is the wide section of the 22cal spud going to clear the .225 boolit or will i have to get a "special" per boolit dia
personally i am plannin on getting a second full length die set for each of these two calibers just for running bullets and boolits the boolit set having the M die in it just so i don't have to fuss with retuning the seater between bullets and boolits

[Iron Mike Golf]

I have a M-Die for every pistol I load for, but sometimes the plug gets loose. Finally decieded to use some red theadlocker. Anyone else run into this?

I use the powder-through setup. The spuds do get loose easy. I give then a wrap of two of teflon tape. Holds it snug enough without locking. I load multiple revolver and auto pistol cals, so I do change a lot.

[alamogunr]

Resurrecting this thread. I thought I would report what I've done as a result of the responses to my questions about "M" dies. I just ordered a .30 Long, .30 Short, .31 Long and a .24 long. The last was so I could get to the minimum order.

I figured that this would let me get my feet wet and I can still order extra plugs from Lyman. The complete dies are inexpensive enough that I can get complete dies for those cartridges that I reload more often.

My next focus will probably be handgun cartridges especially those that I load plain base boolets.

I appreciate all the input here.

[MGySgt]

One more thing I do if I am going to use an M die for that cartridge is to change out the expander plug in the resizer/de-capping die.

I don't have to lube the inside of the neck, nor does it strech the neck/shoulder if I get one that is particularly hard on the expander button coming back out of the case.

[alamogunr]

Well! I received my M dies from Grafs yesterday. In my last post I omitted the .26 cal. die I ordered. Since I've participated in a couple of 6.5 mold GB's I thought it would be prudent to go ahead and order the M die to complement them.

One quick question. When ordering extra expander plugs from Lyman, do you just order a large diameter so it can be turned down, or do you order several different diameters?

[MGySgt]

Order specific size plugs.

[alamogunr]

I was in such a hurry to try out the M die on some .30-06 brass I wanted to load with the NOE 311299 boolet that I forgot that brass length would affect the results with the die. The brass was a combination of some I bought and range pick up. I found out in a hurry that reasonable consistency is required. Some of that brass was several thousandths below minimum, consequently only the first part of the expander touched the neck. Others were so long that a boolet fell into the case.

I'm not sure I understand why the M die would expand so much of the neck that a boolet would fall into the case.

Does anyone have a recommended range of case length that will work well with the M dies?

After re-resizing the long cases, out came the trimmer. Those now are consistently 2.485".

[alamogunr]

OK! Last post. It finally dawned on me that adjustment of the expander plug is extremely touchy. I was going too far in and hitting the upper part of the plug too much. It apparently caused the entire neck to expand. Not sure why but now I've adjusted it to where only a little more than half of the check goes into the neck. That seems to be the sweet spot for me.

I see now why separate M dies are an advantage rather than trying to economize and only have two bodies and several plugs.

I may have a turret press in my future. I also found that removing the decapping pin along with the expander ball from the sizing die is an advantage. All these extra operations are a pain.

[no34570]

Bought some Lyman M plugs that go into the M dies straight from Lyman,as well as a M die for the 454Casull,only cost me $65 with postage,compared to here in Oz,was going to cost me $12-15 per plug,outrageous
I was going by this website http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_LymanMDies.htm and ordered the one's I wanted,but did not get them,i ordered a 32P and a 45P but got the 32AP and the 45AP,which is already in the 454 Casull die I got,so got two of them,I asked the woman I got the order filled at Lyman through and she said this :

Hi Dale,
The website you were on has outdated information. At one time we did have a 32P and 45P plug,
but not any longer. It has been several years since we've had these plugs. The plugs you received are
correct, they are the only ones available for the calibers you requested. The 45AP plug is used for several
different calibers including the 454 Casull. If there is a way to contact anyone at that website you may want
to ask them to update their information.
Regards,
XXXXXXXXXX
Lyman/Pachmayr Customer Service
I wanted the 32P to do oversize 303 bullets .314 .316 size and the 45P .454-.456 size bullets,cause my Rossi 454 Casull like around the 453-454 size,now I'm stuffed

Does anyone know if this is correct,for the Lyman customer service agent might have it wrong,but i doubt it,knowing my luck!

Is there someone on our forum that will make them?

Cheers
Dale
no34570

[popper]

adjustment of the expander plug is extremely touchy Yup, my major gripe about the M expander is the second step is too short.

[Wal']

Bought some Lyman M plugs that go into the M dies straight from Lyman,as well as a M die for the 454Casull,only cost me $65 with postage,compared to here in Oz,was going to cost me $12-15 per plug,outrageous
I was going by this website http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_LymanMDies.htm and ordered the one's I wanted,but did not get them,i ordered a 32P and a 45P but got the 32AP and the 45AP,which is already in the 454 Casull die I got,so got two of them,I asked the woman I got the order filled at Lyman through and she said this :

I wanted the 32P to do oversize 303 bullets .314 .316 size and the 45P .454-.456 size bullets,cause my Rossi 454 Casull like around the 453-454 size,now I'm stuffed

Does anyone know if this is correct,for the Lyman customer service agent might have it wrong,but i doubt it,knowing my luck!

Is there someone on our forum that will make them?

Cheers
Dale
no34570


I just in the last couple of weeks received the 38AP & 38P which was ordered from Brownell's.

So the .38P is still available, cant see why the 32P & 45P would not be. :swagemine:

[nanuk]

are there two types of plugs?

like a large diameter threaded portion, AND a small diameter threaded portion?

I have some lyman M dies, and they are all large (7/16?) and RCBS which are small (3/16? perhaps screw size 10?)

and yet I hear some discussion about the plugs unscrewing... but my Lyman's CANNOT unscrew from the stem as they are one solid piece....

I'm gonna have to compare ALL of mine, as I have some I've not used yet.

anyone have pictures?


added: did some research, and see now about the lyman screw in unit.... BUT I did find a picture of a RCBS one that is a large diameter thread, and a large plug. That would not fit ANY RCBS ones I have, as they all require the small threaded rod...