Scoped Pistol - Brain getting in the way

[x101airborne]

So I finally got to go to the range on Saturday and do a little shooting with my three TC Contender barrels. 41 mag, 7 TCU and 7-30 waters. The 41 mag super 14 with open sights shoots like a rifle. I mean JUST like a rifle. 5 shots at 50 yards into one inch off the bags. Coke cans at 100 yards are no challenge.
On to the 7-30 waters scoped with a Simmons and the 7 TCU scoped with a Burris 4 power. I couldn't hit water from the bottom of a lake. I mean, no semblance of grouping what so ever. And that was at 25 yards. I checked all the base screws, lapped the rings, checked everything for level and tight. If it was just one scope setup doing it, it would be easy to point out the equipment. But I am somehow losing concentration when shooting through the scopes. Can anyone help me with some training reading, or block of instruction? Suggestions? VooDoo Magic? I have not done much shooting with scoped pistols before, so I have very little prior training. Any help would be a step forward.

[EdS]

Do you have the same loss of concentration problem when shooting scoped rifles? If so, a comprehensive evaluation of your shooting technique may be in order. But, the fact that you can shoot an "open" sighted handgun with excellent accuracy is a puzzle, given the problem with scopes. Have you ever tried shooting the two scoped handgun barrels with open sights (if available)? You may have load issues with the two 7s. -Ed

[subsonic]

What did your group look like?

If you can post a pic of it, that's even better.

More than likely the scope is moving on you (internally or sliding in the rings), or parallax is getting you - your head needs to be centered behind the scope.

[x101airborne]

I precision shoot out to 1000 yards with a scoped rifle regularly. No issues. I thought the two disciplines were close to the same, but I think that seeing that scope bounce all over the place makes me try to correct my movements and imparts more movement into the weapon.
I do not have a spare set of rear sites. If I did, I would probably hunt the 7 TCU with just the opens.

[x101airborne]

OK, I just checked the Simmons and it DOES have a bad parralax problem. That answers a lot on the 7-30 setup. But the Burris is good to go. If I cant figure out how to make this better, I may have to do my load eval from a vice rest, then just practice a lot.

[subsonic]

A lot of things could be going on here. The gun could simply be shooting groups that poor no matter what you do on your end.

The heavier the scope weight and the heavier the recoil, the harder it is to get the scope to stay put in the rings.

You could be shooting too heavy of a boolit. The older T/C barrels were generally very slow twist, like 1:14.

[x101airborne]

I am using the lee 130 soup can, so spin should not be the problem, but you know murphy's law.... I have not noticed any movement of the scope, but I will mark it anyway with some tape.

[44man]

Maybe just the loads?
No magic with a scope, just don't move at trigger break and I do not think it is you.
BAD SCOPE, yes, very possible.
Maybe you see more movement and try to make the gun fire as the cross hair passes the target. That is the worst of all. If you see more then 1/4" movement at 100 yards with your hold from the bench, you are lost.
I have to say you see the movement and are making the gun go off. You have lost trigger control.

[Frank]

It could be your eye relief. On Leupolds you can adjust it with the eyepiece. Nothing like a crisp clean cross hair for making those long shots on coke cans. A great scope is the Leupold 2X.

[bigboredad]

it may just be too much magnification for what you are used to. It always takes me a while to shoot through a scope when i haven't it's easy to look at the wrong thing and try to stop a wobble only to make it worse. My suggestion would be to not change a thing at first. Go shoot when you are feel the best and are rested up and relaxed and remember with a 4power scope everything you do is times 4 so just get a little more trigger time with a scope before you decide you have a problem. that's mho but I don't really know anything

[subsonic]

If the shots are not landing very close to the crosshairs at 25yds when the trigger breaks, it's probably not you. Squeeze the trigger and watch where the crosshairs go. Call your shot. Hole appear there?

[x101airborne]

If the shots are not landing very close to the crosshairs at 25yds when the trigger breaks, it's probably not you. Squeeze the trigger and watch where the crosshairs go. Call your shot. Hole appear there?

Hmmm. Good point and in point of fact, no. But then I am trying to do load development and scope adjustment at the same time, so I have no idea what the real cause is. This whole scoped pistol thing is throwing me for a loop. I thought I was doing good by starting at 25 yards like I do with rifles. I just think trying 3 barrels at the same time was more than anyone should take on.

[blademasterii]

I agree.. send two of them to me. :D

[5shotbfr]

do not feel to alone here on having problems shooting scoped handguns .

i personaly shoot iron sights better then i can with a scope . and the higher the magnification
the worse i shoot .

[725]

What these guys said, plus a quick review on your basics. As much as an experienced shooter as you are, it never hurts. Grip firm but not tight. Relax. Trigger - straight back gives a straight out bullet. Any side pressure to the trigger affects how the gun moves at the discharge. Too much finger on the trigger tends to pull it back to you sideways and too little finger on the trigger tends to push it away sideways. Move only the finger muscles, pull straight back, and don't let the flex in your hand muscles translate over to the gun's handle. I shake so much when I use a scoped pistol, it makes me nuts. The old eyes need the scope though.

[runfiverun]

i have issues with scopes on handguns too, iv'e tried a couple.
some i can't see the whole scope.
sometimes i look around it at the target.

[Blammer]

I too had problems shooting a scoped handgun, I had to get a really good rest for my firearm and hands, and ARMS and I found that HOW I held my head and looked through the scope really determined a lot.

With a pistol scope and the extended eye relief, you have to be more visually aware if you are truely in the center of the scope when looking through it.

I first thought the scope was bad but couldn't believe that an figured it HAD to be my technique, I was right in my case.

[x101airborne]

The more I think about it, the more I wish my postal shilouette coach was here. We were shooting 22 rifles and he was a former marine sniper. Every practice day we went through the fundamentals of set-up and dry fire practice before firing a shot. I need someone to show me how to set up a handgun. I dont even know where to rest my forearms.

[kenyerian]

Scoped pistols are definitely harder to master than a rifle. but having said that it is very rewarding when you do. I've been shooting the soupcan in 7TCU also and i haven't came up with a load as accurrate as the J factories but I'm making progress.

[44man]

I hunt deer and have grown to HATE a scope because I can't shoot them off hand. I went to the Ultra Dots. Even off hand at 100 yards with a revolver I will tell you where the shot went. Most of my deer to 100 yards+ are shot off hand.
I just can't call a shot with a scope and need a rest all the time. The evil target shaking gremlin lives in a scope. :kidding:
I CAN shoot a scope but it must be locked on a rest.
One day I had 3 shots left in my .44 so I shot at the steel at 100 yards, off hand. This is what I got with the red dot. Never ask me to do it with a scope!

[bobthenailer]

Just a thought ! in the past I had 2 contender barrels in 7 TCU and 32/20 both shoot excellent with jacketed bullets but refused to shoot decently with cast bullets ! i tried 4 bullets in the tcu and 2 bullets in the 32/20 along with at least 5 powders in each . I know its not the bullets as i shoot the same bullets in my XP 7 ihmsa and RPM xl 32/20 with excellent accuracy.

[subsonic]

You have to first set yourself up on the bench in a way that minimizes wobble seen through the scope. You will never be able to snag the trigger and release the shot as the crosshairs dance across the center of the target and hit anything.

Take some hints from rifle shooting. Support both ends of the gun. Just like legs on a table, the further apart the supports are, the more stable.

Use a flat, maybe 1" thick or so, somewhat small sandbag under the grips. Pack it well so that it is fairly solid.

I use a stack of sandbags under the barrel near the muzzle, because I cannot find a rest short enough for the front. I plan to build something. If you raise the rear of the gun up with a tall bag, you will loose some arm support from the bench and recoil will twist your wrist and jam your elbows into the the bench. If your arms are almost flat, neither problem will occur.

Assume a weaver type arm posistion with your arms flat on the bench. The weaver position allows your strong arm to be almost directly behind the gun. This lets you rest your head on your bicep/shoulder in order to support your head and maintain consistent alignment with the scope. Iscosceles works, just not as well for me because my head "floats" behind the scope.

Squeeze the trigger and make sure your finger is positioned in a way that it comes straight back. Usually the center of the first pad is the best place to position the trigger and make sure your finger is at 90* to the trigger face.

Just print that and take it with you.....:drinks:

[Lonegun1894]

Mine was giving me fits when I first got it too. Just dont give up and follow the directions above. My scoped ones are .30 Herrett and .44 Mag, but I am finally learning to use them. My problem at first was trying to make the gun go off when the scope was moving across the target, which didn't work. I was also in denial about it at first because I have also shot a lot of long range with rifles so it just couldn't be me, but it was. Once I got that done, I kept questioning myself and doubting my accuracy and I am still working on regaining my confidence with it to the point that I have it with rifles. Getting better, but not there yet with consistency. I mean, when I am on my game, I can do 2-3" with either the .30 or the .44 at 100yds with cast, but when I am not, I cant keep it on a 9" plate, so I know it isn't the gun that is the problem, but I am. And I refuse to use jacketed so I don't know how either would shoot with it. My first few rounds with the .44 were jacketed just to use up a partial box I had, but it's been nothing but cast with either since.

[bearcove]

Check the base screws. Some T/C barrels were not tapped all the way to the bottom of hole. It all seems tight but its not. Get a tap and grind off the end to make a real bottoming tap.

If you take out the screws the ends will tell the story.

Rod

[6.5 mike]

Another thing is hand position on the grips, if you do'nt grip the gun the same each time your shots will wander, I had this problem when I first started with my contender. It looks like your sight picture is right but it is'nt. My t/c came with a set of Pac grips like the ones for a S&W. I changed to the Pac finger groove ones & that cured alot of my troubles.

And if you think a 4x is bad, try a 10x. It & my hornet bbl beat my butt last time I shot it, was NOT getting my head in the same place & it really showed on the targets :veryconfu.

I even go so far as to that off a ring when shooting the T/C.

[bearcove]

2X is as high as I like in a pistol scope.

[leadman]

A great place to gain insight into shooting scoped pistols is on Speciality Pistols. Think shooting a thousand yards or more with a pistol.
I shot and hunted with Ernie (Xphunter) in the fall of 2010 in Wyoming. His 600 yard groups at 600 yards in a high wind were around 4".
I learned from him to use a leather bag under the butt of the gun and squeeze the bag to make elevation chances. This is with a bipod but will work with a rest.
A set of wood wedges under the butt will also work but may change the elevation.
One thing that really throws a shot is canting the gun, which is very easy to do with a scoped pistol. Ernie uses a bubble level that is attached to the scope and swings out for use.
Be aware of what you are doing each shot so you can eleminate or change what isn't working. And practice.

[TCTex]

It might be worth buying a box of 7-30 and seeing how it does.