Neck annealing

[Sasquatch-1]

For lack of a better catagory to put this under I am placing it here.

I have a bunch of .44 mag cases that are starting to get a little brittle. I am just wondering which method is prefered for annealing the necks on these?

Will the thumb and finger method get the neck hot enough to soften it and still not affect the rest of the case or should I stay with the half submerged in water method?

[HangFireW8]

Either method will work to keep from heating the case head too much, which is dangerous. The other goals are even heating all the way around the case mouth, not overheating, and case to case consistency.

For the first goal, the best is to use two or three prepositioned torches (that means not handheld). For the second, red hot is absolutely not desired, just heat until you see some dark colors running, kinda looks like moving case hardening on a claasic steel gun.

For consistancy, once you work out your timing and technique, do it exactly the same way for all the cases.

HF

[Calamity Jake]

I have never annealed pistol brass and never will, to much trouble trying to keep the heat away from the case head.
I shoot it until it splits then sell it to a scrap dealer.

[44man]

Never anneal revolver brass unless you shoot 500 fps.
My best groups have come from .44 brass shot over 40X.
Case tension evenness gets better and the very worst groups are shot with brand new brass.
Split cases, toss out. I have brass I have shot since 1956. The most splits I have had are with the first firing of new brass.
I have .475 brass shot a bunch without a loss but I lost two to splits when brand new.
Flare brass just enough and crimp to the bottom of the boolit groove, no more. Never over crimp. Depend more on case tension.
I had old brass that I replaced for some reason. I loaded the old stuff and gave them to a friend 20 years ago. I found he is still loading the same brass.

[Win1917]

John Barsness has written about a very simple method that was worked out by a metalurgist whereby you hold the case with your fingers and rotate the neck over a candle. Hold a damp towel in your opposite hand and when it starts to get warm wipe off the soot with the damp towel.

The drawback to it is that it's quite a bit slower because the candle flame is much cooler than a propane flame but I think it works just as well for and it's pretty much foolproof which is definitely not the case with propane torches. I typically use a propane torch because of the time savings but the candle method most definitely works.

[5shotbfr]

i agree with 44man and jake . there is no good reason to aneal cases this short that i can see .
i havent bought any .44 mag cases for over 10 years so i looked at starline prices .

$159.50 per 1000 .. why take a chance at 15.5 cents each shoot till they split and save em for scrap

[44man]

Soft brass in a revolver is a big no-no. It is amazing how long brass can keep going unless how you load is ruining it.
Once I needed 6.5X55 brass but none could be found. I made the cases from 30-06 brass. I annealed, formed, trimmed and annealed again. I loaded them and they shot fine but the rest of the loads sat in the box for a long time.
I went to use them and found most necks had split just sitting. They had been annealed just short of red hot. Why they split is a mystery.
I finally found brass and they have been shot forever without a problem. I really question annealing.
I once did it to .44 brass to see and I could not keep boolits in the brass under recoil.
Case forming needs it but once done, I now leave it alone.
The truth is, I have never lost .44 brass to a split and I have loaded them since 1956.
.475 brass has split on the first loading and firing but I dare not anneal them.

[swheeler]

I have never annealed revolver brass, except 7.62x38R for the Nagant revolver, so far it has worked to save this currently unavailable Starline brass. I used the rotate between thumb and forefinger method, butane torch and drop in tap water when they got too hot to hold, necks splitting has stopped for now.

[paul h]

Are you sure the cases are becoming brittle? Revolver brass will form splits at the neck from being belled and crimped, especially with a heavy crimp. If you're getting 20 plus loadings out of your brass, call it good.

As to anealing the cases, they are relatively short cases so you will have to put the case heads in water to keep them from being over heated. You'll burn your fingers before you get the case mouths hot enough.

[swheeler]

Are you sure the cases are becoming brittle? Revolver brass will form splits at the neck from being belled and crimped, especially with a heavy crimp. If you're getting 20 plus loadings out of your brass, call it good.

As to anealing the cases, they are relatively short cases so you will have to put the case heads in water to keep them from being over heated. You'll burn your fingers before you get the case mouths hot enough.

Not true, I've done it you haven't.

[Win1917]

They had been annealed just short of red hot. Why they split is a mystery.
I finally found brass and they have been shot forever without a problem. I really question annealing.

"Just short of red hot" sounds way too hot to me. Without getting into a technical explanation, "partial annealing" is what we want to do as reloaders. That doesn't change anything in the brass other than relieve the strain hardening we impose through all the working of the brass. "Full" annealing is what happens when it gets too hot and that actually changes the crystal structure of the brass and gives it the undesireable properties you're refering to.

Try it sometime with a tempurature sensitive paint to insure that the brass stays in the recovery range and doesn't go into recrystalization and I bet you'll find it works fine.

[big dale]

Listen to what 44 Man has to say. Most of my 44 Mag cases have been in use since the mid 70's. I find the key is careful die adjustment so that the brass is flaired and crimped as little as necessary. If I ever wear this stuff out, I will just buy some new stuff from Starline and not have to worry about whether it is the Rem or the WW brass that I have been separating for all these decades.

Have fun with this stuff

Big Dale

[NSB]

I've never annealed pistol brass. I've never seen a need to. I shoot a lot of handgun and I have cases I've been using for many, many years. Don't over expand and don't over crimp and they'll last forever. If they ever do split, after a lot of reloading, toss them.

[NSP64]

I found a whole bunch of onc
e fired 30carbine brass from 1943. I know it was once fired. I watched him open the box and shoot it. Took it home and used the case belling die, split.

I use the girlfriends lazy susan, put bowl of water in the middle(1/2 case method) and do them 1 at a time

I do this when she is gone.

[44man]

I have always wondered about real old brass that sits. Something must happen to the metal.
It appears just using it makes it last better.
It would be good to hear more about this.

[Jim]

Earl Naramore and Phil Sharpe both suggested that annealing be left to metalurgists and not attempted by handloaders. Honestly, the average handloader doesn't have a clue what annealing does, nor how to do it correctly.

It can be done in the home shop, however. The key to success in this is much study and investigation into how to do it CORRECTLY.

[atr]

I have not ever annealed pistol brass ..38spl. 357mag....and I get alot of reloads 20+ by being very careful about how much I bell the mouth and how much crimp I use. I think the key is to work the mouth as little as possible.

[HangFireW8]

Earl Naramore and Phil Sharpe both suggested that annealing be left to metalurgists and not attempted by handloaders. Honestly, the average handloader doesn't have a clue what annealing does, nor how to do it correctly.

It can be done in the home shop, however. The key to success in this is much study and investigation into how to do it CORRECTLY.

Phil Sharpe shot one set of 30'06 cases for decades, he started in the mid 1930's, and except for one case of infant mortality, was still carrying on the experiment with the entire batch when the last printing was done in the 1950's. However he shot them out of his "pet Springfield" with a custom chambered barrel. With brass life like that, I'm sure he didn't find much need for annealing.

Sharpe also develped the 357 Magnum along with Col. Wesson. The Winchester factory provided him with new cases. Again, not a lot of need to anneal.

Of course, Sharpe was well aware of the possible problems with annealing, or very old cases. He was also a college-educated, somewhat wealthy man who valued time expended and hated false economies.

Phil Sharpe also refused to reload shotshells, as the results with the cardboard hulls at the time were inferior to new shells. I reload shotshells all the time. What has changed? Besides the components, more is known. The 16 gauge group on yahoo groups does their own pressure testing. Advances have been made all around.

There's a lot that can go wrong with annealing. It can also be a useful tool. Or you can ignore it and just change out your cases on occasion. Both are valid approaches.

I've never annealed revolver cases. Why? My brass recovery rate at the range is about 500 to 1000%. However it is a necessary part of the case forming regimen for my Ackley Improved rifle. I'm sure it can be done safely for revolvers, even magnum revolvers. I just have no need.

As Phil Sharpe would say, study the problem carefully.

HF