How fussy are you guys, bullet weight diff.

[hightime]

I poured about eighty 45 cal. 540 gr bullets for my Sharps today. When I weighed them I found about a 9 gr. spred with most within 2 gr. spred. I kept returning the outside ones to the pot and was able to get a final 30 within 1 gr. Is that picky?

Owen

[Bullet Caster]

9 gn. isn't all that bad. I shoot 'em all unless they're really too light. That would indicate a void in the boolit. As long as they're within +- 4 grains I usually shoot 'em. But that's just me. Lol. BC

[hightime]

Thank, just askin'

Owen

[sharps4590]

hightime, I sort mine to within 2 grains and identify them as such. Usually, once the melt and mold are up to temp I can cast most to within less than two grains anyway, as it appears you do too. Necessary, maybe not, but I feel better about it.

[John Boy]

When I weighed them I found about a 9 gr. spred with most within 2 gr. spred.Hightime, might want to try this casting procedure to tighten the bell curve bullet weights:
* Use a thermometer and hold the melt temperature constant.
* Continuous casting rhythm is important
* Empty mold - turn it horizontal and tightly put the ladle spout tightly into the sprue hole. Make sure the ladle has a full amount of lead
* With mold and ladle still in this position, turn the mold vertical and pour for 5 seconds. You are creating what is called a good 'head pressure' pour
* Create a nice sprue puddle of melted lead
* Watch the sprue puddle. It should frost within 8 -10 seconds. If the time is less or more ... you have to adjust the temperature of the pot. Only Keep the bullets that frost within the 8-10 seconds
* When the puddle frosts, cut the puddle with the sprue plate and look at the base of the bullet. It should be perfectly filled out and flat. If it isn't, your head pressure and puddle is not enough

Casting paying attention to each of these steps, the bell curve of your bullets should be within a 0.5gr range which is the weight difference that you want. The range of the bell curve weights should be no more than 1 grain

With practice and adhering to each of the important items, you can weigh every 10th bullet to insure the weights are remaining within the 1gr difference. After awhile, with practice, the bullet weights will be within a 0.5gr bell curve weight difference which is the ideal difference

[Bad Ass Wallace]

546gn Paul Jones bullets are all weighed to within +/- .5gn else they go straight back in the pot. My reject rate is 8-10% but I can have confidence that a round assembled with weighed charges and weighed boolits will shoot 10's regularly!

[hightime]

Very interesting how others think and work. Thanks for letting me know. I was supprised how slow I had to work on those big bullets. I'd make one then let the mold cool while I weighed some. I didn't have a good cycle going. I also had the cutoff plate screw that would loosen. Is there any locktight that might work in that hot situation?

Owen

[John Boy]

I also had the cutoff plate screw that would loosen. Is there any locktight that might work in that hot situation?Owen, while the mold is COLD - set the sprue plate tension so:
* When you wiggle the plate there is no slop or daylight between the bottom of the plate and top of the mold
* With the mold attached to the handles in you hand - flip your wrist. The sprue plate should rotate off the mold. This will prevent the sprue plate from galling the top of your mold

If you tighten the sprue plate tension screw hard when the mold is cold, there is no need for any further adjustment or 'locktight' while casting and the mold is hot

The purpose of a proper setup of the plate before casting is to insure the mold fill is not going over the top of the cavity - creating a 'skirt ring' on the bullet base when it is dropped out. Also, SHOULD you be running the mold too hot and not allowing the sprue puddle to COMPLETELY frost, the lead is not smeared across the mold under the sprue plate
Okie Dookie?

PS: Sounds like you have recognized that letting the mold cool down while you weighed each bullet is a No No. Not doing it, your weight variances will be much closer ... Don't stop the rhythm while your casting!
Also, give this 8- Phase Casting Cycle a read ... http://www.longrangebpcr.com/8Phases.htm

[montana_charlie]

After culling everything with visible imperfections, the remainder will usually fall within a 1-grain to 1.5-grain spread.

I will weigh those into subgroups where all bullets in a 'set' weigh the same, and the subgroups are separated in weight by 0.2 grains.

When shooting for group, a single set of same-weight bullets will be fired into that group.

I'm only this picky during load development. For gong shooting, I will typically use bullets from two or three sets. But, even with three sets, the spread is six tenths of a grain.

CM

[Don McDowell]

If you do things properly you should have less than a 3gr spread, and should really be less than 2 grs spread.

[dragonrider]

When I geta new mold I weigh the first boolits from it to be sure that it casts somewhere near what it should be, after that I do not weigh boolits.

[Boz330]

My boolits generally fall in a 2gr spead. I keep them in a +-.5gr lot. anything outside that gets thrown back in the pot.

Bob

[Montana Ron]

Plus or minus .5 grains in a 540 grain bullet...... Not this cowboy...........2 grains is such a minuscule deviation i'd look at weighing primers and brass and then bore condition and humidity and altitude and temperature and position of the sun and my bio rhythm and attitude and migraine headache from the nightmare of shooting for fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can reduce all the physical factors you want but it's the
human factor that makes more inaccurate rifles then the rifle do!!!!!!!!!

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Mmmm, I preheat the mould chuck the first one back, in 45 to70 bullets cast, I have about .3 to .4 grain spread.

I use a count cadance to cast, this is Dipper poured 540 gr slicks to 330 gr postell. Reject rates run 1 to 3 in a 70 bullet session.

I let my personal results on the target speak for themselves.

The Lunger
KW

[hightime]

I should have just weighed them and sorted them and shot them in like weight batches.

Then just kicked back just a few on each end of the scale.

Ah well, I was enjoying myself.

All great, Thanks guys. Owen

[Lead pot]

Once my mould is up to temperature I seldom see a .5 gr from the light to heavy end even with the heavy 720 gr .50 cal bullets.
When you pay attention on your casting prosidure and keep the nipple of your ladle clean of slag so it dont get poured into the cavity you will see a consistent bullet wright that will not vary .3 from the light to heavy end.
Anymore I dont weigh my bullets anymore unless I load for load testing or the long range matches.
If a bullet has no voids like a swaged bullet of the same profile the weight can vary 10 grains and you will not see it on paper at extended ranges, but if you have a 2 to 5 grain light cast bullet that has slag poured in it will throw the bullet off balance and you will see it at 200 yards.
A loose sprue plate will vary a bullets weight .2 gr more if it is very loose.
I cast with a tight plate that will not swing by it's self and I do not have a problem bullets filling using 1/50 alloy for the 720 gr .50-90 bullets.

[StrawHat]

...Ah well, I was enjoying myself... Owen

That is the important part.

What weight variation is acceptable to you is dependant on what you are trying to achieve. With your bullet, a 5 grain weight variation is 1%, acceptable for hunting but not for target work. I try to keep everything under 1/2% and group weights into lots as some others do, but I am no longer interested in pursuing target grade accuracy.

[Chill Wills]

I don't have any trouble casting a run of match bullets into a small enough weight range that it shows up bad on the target, that I can tell. If it did I would still be weighting them.

One thing to think about is the act of weighing them all and then grouping them by weight is not helpful for match work.

If you think about it, there is only so much room in your mould cavity. Assuming you can close the mould completely every time and get the lid on tight, the max volume is the same... every time. Your bullets should have a upper limit to how much they weigh. Anything lighter is something other than lead; and makes for a unbalanced bullets maybe.

A fully filled out bullet with a hole drilled on center in the base can be pretty light before they show up out of the group. Even at long range.

Even pliers pulled bullets can shoot accuracy.
Still, in a match, my brain needs the best bullets I can cast. However, Visual is good enough to win.

[Don McDowell]

Using the Cabine tree locking mould handles can make even the fussiest mould throw bullets close enough that weighing only need be done just due to so many years of habit...

[tubb_ooh_lard]

+ one on the cabin tree handles .
not only did i get better boolits , but my hand and wrist feel so much better at the end of a casting session .
it takes a pretty fair amount of time to cast 100 or more boolits with a single cavity .

[hightime]

The reason I don't hurry is to get a better looking bullet, but my son just lets them be frosty. That big mold gets too hot too easy.
It's a rainy day. I think I'll go save another thirty bucks and cast fifty.

Owen

[tubb_ooh_lard]

i cast with wheel weights and a smidge of tin for better fillout so my bullets are just a little frosty , doesnt hurt a thing if you like pretty boolits wipe them with a rag .

however i think if your using a lead tin mix without the antimony you shouldnt have frosted boolits , if so like you said your temp is to high .

i dont shoot well enough for weight to change my groups any , if it looks good and has nice sharp edges i shoot it

[TXGunNut]

At my stage in the game I find I can keep 80-90% of my big .458 boolits within 2 grs extreme spread. Anything putside that goes back in the pot. If you haven't already mark two sheets of paper w/ 12-15 "slots" each and line up your boolits by weight in .1 gr increments and you'll probably notice most are well inside 2 gr of each other. That's more consistent, percentage-wise, than premium j-word bullets! That's plenty good for me until my shooting improves greatly, by then I'll have my timing and technique down better.

[EDK]

IF you want to shoot competitively OR just as well as possible, you want to be pretty particular (anal?) about boolit weights...and powder charges, etc. I'm no expert and the Quigley shoot is the only competition I go to...or care much about...BUT I need the best ammo I can produce to go after the various targets. A life sized buffalo at 800 yards ain't very d*** big perched on my 50/90's front sight!

Mike Venturino's SHOOTING BUFFFALO RIFLES OF THE OLD WEST has a section on competition and comments from national level competitors. Randolph Wright's LOADING AND SHOOTING PAPER PATCHED BULLETS, A BEGINNER'S GUIDE is also good to acquire....while he is concentrating on paper patch bullets, there is a lot of information to be transferred to grease groove bullets. The book is profusely illustrated by a professional.

I'm not a great shot...and that may be too kind an evaluation...but lower grade ammo is not going to help me.

:redneck::cbpour::guntootsmiley:

[TXGunNut]

I'm not a great shot...and that may be too kind an evaluation...but lower grade ammo is not going to help me.-EDK

I'm no longer a comp shooter but when I was I learned (after a few years) how to make ammo that was second to none. I also had well-built guns and I kept them clean and in tune.
The problem? No excuses. If I turned in a poor score I could only blame the loose nut behind the trigger. :bigsmyl2:
Point being I need more trigger time and I'd rather be on the range than casting the same alloy until I have a .5 gr ES instead of a 2 gr ES. I'm not sure I see well enough anymore to take full advantage of extremely precise ammo.
I guess the better question is "how much precision does your game require?" or "are my loads holding me back?"
If I shot as well as EDK does I'd tighten up my tolerances a bit, for now my ammo far outperforms the shooter even tho there is considerable room for improvement.
EDK; is the MV Buffalo Rifles book as good as his Leverguns of the Old West book?

[bigted]

txgunnut...im not EDK...nor have i read the MV leverguns book but i have torn up my 'buffalo rifles' book and im not done by a long shot finding all the goodies in it...a great book/read and i highly encourage the purchase of it as a guide to loading and shooting.

the other is the loading primer from Venturino / Garbe. also a great must have for the basics and beyond. i have fingerprints multiple places on all the pages of both those books and a couple others that have...along with forums like this one...helped me down the road to sickness and suffering with this HABIT in fine shape.

[RMulhern]

FWIW....years ago when I was making jacketed .30 caliber bullets for NRA competition I undertook the project of testing various bullet weights and the difference they would make in group size/accuracy. I had a .308 NRA Match Rifle that was highly accurate (won the Texas State Long Range Championship using it) and I loaded bullets that I had made with up to as much as 5.0 grains variation and tested at 300 yards. I put a 16X Unertl scope on the rifle, used the same load for all testing and fired 20 shot groups. Consistently all groups were within 3/4 MOA! Total shots fired which was 200 rounds took over a period of 30 days because I only shot on the days that I considered a NWC environment! On some days I would have 10 rounds with a weight of 168 grs. which was the foundation or standard weight and 10 rounds with weights of 171 grs. All cartridges were intermingled and fired at random. On other days I would work the test loads up to 173 grs. which were mingled with the standard loads. It was my conclusion that THEY ALL shot 'knot-hole' sized groups!

Whether or not this would apply to the BPCR game or not...I don't know but even though the testing I have done with BPCR has not been as extensive as what I conducted in the SP game...I think it would apply to a degree for I have shot some nice groups from 500 yards with cast bullets (PP) of varying weights all fired together![smilie=1::-D

[Chill Wills]

RMulhern, I think I have read where you posted this before and fully agree. This tracks with what I see when shooting matches.

I cast really great bullets and for years I use to weight them. I gave up years ago with no change on the target or the scores.

As an example; In 2009 I cast just enough bullets to shoot the Creedmoor nationals and International tryout match. I loaded all of them - zero culls. I made the international team and won the NRA nationals.

I would advise anyone; Don't waste time on things that don't help your game.
Spend your time becoming a good rifleman.

[Jim2]

Cast 300 .458s today from a custom Steve Brooks mould, varying 526.5 to 527.5. Finally quit checkin' 'em, close enough for an old guy!

Jim

[EDK]

I've got TWO hardbound copies and one soft bound of SHOOTING BUFFALO RIFLES OF THE OLD WEST. The SPG book is a good one, as is Randoph Wright's. I've got two hardbound and a soft bound of SHOOTING LEVER GUNS OF THE OLD WEST also. I also "doubled up" on John Taffin's various books...wish I'd done the same for Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton...oh well.

Figure bullet weight variation in terms of percentages...and intended use. 2 grains on a 500 grain 45 caliber boolit ain't near as big as 2 grains on a 180 grain 30 caliber.

I'm 63; got a bum ticker, poor eyesight and type two diabetes for starters; more pills than your grandma! I go to Quigley to shoot some long range before the actual shoot and try not to embarass myself for record. My brother isn't coming, so I can only hope the nice auburn haired lady, Laura from Nebraska IIRC, will spot the whole relay I'm on like she did two years ago...Thank you again. Any of you jokers that can't out shoot me needs to take up golf! NOBODY has as good a time as I do visiting and looking around at Quigley...it's my eigth year and I'll be back every year that I'm able to make the 1300+ mile drive from Saint Louis. BUT I do the best I can and love the thunder of my BIG 50.

I'll be looking for John and Mike Klein, Mr. Jennings, Bobw, Gussy, Harlan Sage's bunch, Frenchy, Al Lee and family, and others whose names escape me right now, but I see your faces as I write. I'll be d*** glad to see you all and catch up.

:redneck::cbpour::guntootsmiley:

[RMulhern]

I've got TWO hardbound copies and one soft bound of SHOOTING BUFFALO RIFLES OF THE OLD WEST. The SPG book is a good one, as is Randoph Wright's. I've got two hardbound and a soft bound of SHOOTING LEVER GUNS OF THE OLD WEST also. I also "doubled up" on John Taffin's various books...wish I'd done the same for Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton...oh well.

Figure bullet weight variation in terms of percentages...and intended use. 2 grains on a 500 grain 45 caliber boolit ain't near as big as 2 grains on a 180 grain 30 caliber.

I'm 63; got a bum ticker, poor eyesight and type two diabetes for starters; more pills than your grandma! I go to Quigley to shoot some long range before the actual shoot and try not to embarass myself for record. My brother isn't coming, so I can only hope the nice auburn haired lady, Laura from Nebraska IIRC, will spot the whole relay I'm on like she did two years ago...Thank you again. Any of you jokers that can't out shoot me needs to take up golf! NOBODY has as good a time as I do visiting and looking around at Quigley...it's my eigth year and I'll be back every year that I'm able to make the 1300+ mile drive from Saint Louis. BUT I do the best I can and love the thunder of my BIG 50.

I'll be looking for John and Mike Klein, Mr. Jennings, Bobw, Gussy, Harlan Sage's bunch, Frenchy, Al Lee and family, and others whose names escape me right now, but I see your faces as I write. I'll be d*** glad to see you all and catch up.

:redneck::cbpour::guntootsmiley:

Hot dang EDK...I do believe I'd kiss ya ***! You've got GUTS!! I hope the hellsfire ya whup 'em all!! Here's to ya.......:drinks::drinks:

[montana_charlie]

Any of you jokers that can't out shoot me needs to take up golf!
I tried golf, but I wasn't any good at that, either.

CM

[TXGunNut]

txgunnut...im not EDK...nor have i read the MV leverguns book but i have torn up my 'buffalo rifles' book and im not done by a long shot finding all the goodies in it...a great book/read and i highly encourage the purchase of it as a guide to loading and shooting.

the other is the loading primer from Venturino / Garbe. also a great must have for the basics and beyond. i have fingerprints multiple places on all the pages of both those books and a couple others that have...along with forums like this one...helped me down the road to sickness and suffering with this HABIT in fine shape.


Thanks, will pick up the Buffalo Rifles book as soon as possible. The SPG primer is my first book on the subject and I keep it handy today. Some sections I've read several times, read them twice before I loaded my first cast boolit over BP into a 45-70 case.

[TXGunNut]

Any of you jokers that can't out shoot me needs to take up golf! -EDK


May just do that. Think of all the weight I'd walk off looking for lost balls! I may get the hang of loading/shooting BPCR someday but for now I'm just having fun looking for a combination that works.

[EDK]

There's a whole bunch of guys here who willingly share their information and will keep you from repeating their mistakes. Paul Matthews' books are good reading too. shilohrifle.com/forums has a lot of good information.

More experimentation and sharing of results helps all of us. At one time, the FEDERAL Large Rifle Magnum was THE primer; now the hot ticket is primer wads and some shooters modifying primer pockets for pistol primers. Any of us can make the discovery that will help everyone who enjoys black powder rifles. I go to Quigley to shoot, visit, and listen to guys like Lead Pot, Powderburnerr, and Orville. There's times I wish I had a video camera and tape recorder. Orville has some neat toys for show and tell....he's either one h*** of a machinist or has one that owes him money!

Finding the "one good load" for your rifle is like the 1300 mile drive to Quigley that is the high point of my year. Enjoy the journey as you head towards the goal...and the side trips are fun too.

:redneck::cbpour::guntootsmiley:

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, EDK. I'm making progress thanks to the folks around here but whenever I focus on my 45-90 issues or diversions ruin the party and it takes awhile to get back to it. I've identified the primer pocket as a problem area but I need to resolve some sight issues as well. I'm focused on a few other projects at the moment but the 45-90 and 45-70 are the ones that fascinate me.
Sorry about the hijack, OP. Did you get an answer you could use?

:hijack: