Primer shelf life

[Roundnoser]

I know this has been discussed in previous posts, but I had an interesting find:

Last year I purchased a lot of reloading equipment which included about 10K standard small and large pistol primers (CCI). I have used 3K of those primers with no malfunctions. Today, I found an old sporting goods store receipt for the primers that was in one of the primer boxes. They were purchased 12 years ago in 2000. It didn't suprise me, but it was a nice verification that old primers will work just fine if stored properly.

By the way, in 2000, those primers (2K of CCI large pistol) cost $29.00 tax included. In many cases, that price has doubled since then. Funny, my paycheck hasn't doubled!!!:violin:

[oldred]

I am using some primers now that I bought back in 1977, I bought several thousand of these and they were stored along with my other gear for years while my shooting life was on hold due to making a living. After I retired I dusted off my guns (well not actually "dusted off", just a figure of speech) and other gear and I have been busy trying to use it all up! These were stored with no special care just placed in cardboard boxes and stored in a dry garage for a while then in a large closet for several years when I moved to another house. Some of the powder I had stored had deteriorated some, most notably the 3031, but most of the other powders were ok. The fact that some of the powder had deteriorated demonstrates that storage conditions were not 100% ideal but the powder was all that was harmed, the primers are as good as the day I bought them!



Every time I see those 1977 prices on that stuff it makes me want to cry!!:cry:

[zomby woof]

How's this 1961, still work fine!!! $7.20

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCN0762.JPG

[rexherring]

I just shot some Federal Mag pistols that were marked $1.19 a box of 100. Not sure when I bought them but work fine. Stored in metal ammo boxes with silica gel packs. (I do put the silica gel packs in the dehydrator once in awhile.)

[357maximum]

A friend of mine collects anything and everything Winchester. About 3 years ago he brings me 3K of LR primers that were cardboard sleeves around milled WOODEN trays. He wanted the empty containers back. I disposed of all the primers one at a time and everyone of them went bang. Not sure when they were made but I know they existed before I was a twinkle in my Daddy's eye. If today you put 10,000 primers into a military ammo can they will most likely out last not only you but this Nation as well.

[Jim]

I've got 1930s vintage milsurp ammo that fires every time. I would imagine that, given the advances in manufacturing technology, today's primers would last many years longer if properly stored.

[Uncle R.]

How's this 1961, still work fine!!! $7.20

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCN0762.JPG

At $7.20 1961 dollars I suspect those primers were more expensive than today's prices. Most sporting goods were very expensive then. I've gone through some magazines from that era and I was surprised to see fishing tackle, guns and sights, outdoor clothing and most types of gear costing so much. The prices seem low now but remember that most people were earning way less than 10K per year and you'll realize that Mitchell spinning reel cost several days' wages.
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It's hard to quantify inflation exactly but I certainly don't trust the "official" government figures. They lie about inflation just like they do about everything else. The real rate of inflation over (especially) the last few years has been much higher than we're told. When you look at how they manipulate the calculations to keep the numbers low it's almost laughable.
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Perhaps the best way to determine inflation is to check the prices for yourself. Look in old advertisements from 1961 and you'll see that many of them list selling prices. Advertisers have long since stopped doing that. They know that prices change so quickly their ad will be wrong almost before the magazine is printed, but back then it was common to see prices in magazine ads. Look them over, do a little math, and you may well conclude that (in general) things now cost roughly ten times what they did in 1961.
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You may also conclude that sporting goods in general beat that trend - cost perhaps 6 or 8 times what they did then - and today's prices on our "toys" are really bargains.
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I doubt the deterioration of that 3031 was because of storage conditions. I've had IMR powders go bad after just a few years' storage - and on the very same shelf for the same time were many others that remained perfect. I think they sometimes go bad due to lack of proper manufacturing and would do so even if stored in ideal conditions. I've seen it - but only a few times - and only with IMR powders.
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I have never seen "modern" primers (Post 1960?) go bad when stored in any kind of reasonable place. I have seen loaded ammo go bad - give hangfires and misfires and bloopers - but again only in stuff from the 50s and earlier.
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Uncle R.

[fecmech]

According to this web site EH.net here is what 1961's $7.20 is worth today.
Current data is only available till 2011. In 2011, the relative worth of $7.20 from 1961 is:

$54.10 using the Consumer Price Index
$43.40 using the GDP deflator
$59.90 using the unskilled wage
$74.40 using the Production Worker Compensation
$117.00 using the nominal GDP per capita
$199.00 using the relative share of GDP

In the late 70's I was buying Federal sp primers at cost through a friend who was a commercial reloader for $5./thousand. His cost for WW 231 powder in 12 lb. kegs was $2.50/lb!

[TCTex]

I have a funny suspicious that just like powders, storage can place an important role. JMHO...

PS, my Dad has WWII 4891 surplus powder that still shoots 1/2 groups because of how it has been stored...

[Thumbcocker]

Still using cci primers I bought during the Clinton years.

[Char-Gar]

In 1965 when the war in Viet Nam started to get hot and heavy, I ran down and stocked up on primers. I had head the stories about how hard they were to obtain in WWII and didn't want to get caught without. I wrapped up my stash in multiple layers of foil and sealed them with tape. I continue to buy new primers and hang on to the stash.

About ten years later, I realized that I didn't need the stash, I started to shoot them up. I use very few SR primers, so I still have about a thousand of 1965 Winchester SR primers. Two years ago I loaded some ammo up (25-20) with them and some fresh Winchester SR primers and went to the range. The 1965 primers turned in slightly better group that the 2010 primers.

So the shelf life of primers if stored indoors is at least 47 years.

[MBTcustom]

I shot up all of my dads stash bought back in 1972. Not one single misfire. Probably worked through 3000 primers. All went bang. There was no special packaging either, just stacked on a shelf in a musty closet in central Arkansas.

Don't worry about it.

[smokeywolf]

I have used primers recently that were purchased by my father in the mid 1950s. IMR 4895 powder became fertilizer about 14 years after he acquired it. It had the telltale rust coloring to the granules and the acrid odor. This powder may have already been on the shelf or stored for some time, as I believe it was milsurp. It was in a rectangular metal gallon can that was OD green with the cap that snaps open when you depress the center.
As for powder/primer pricing; relative to gasoline, food, housing, medical, insurance, and perhaps taxation, all have gone up by a factor of 20, give or take. Income on the other hand, has increased (if your work hasn't been farmed out to Mexico, India, or another low-wage country) by a factor of 8, give or take.

smokeywolf

[smokeywolf]

I have used primers recently that were purchased by my father in the mid 1950s. IMR 4895 powder became fertilizer about 14 years after he acquired it. It had the telltale rust coloring to the granules and the acrid odor. This powder may have already been on the shelf or stored for some time, as I believe it was milsurp. It was in a rectangular metal gallon can that was OD green with the cap that snaps open when you depress the center.
As for powder/primer pricing; relative to gasoline, food, housing, medical, insurance, and perhaps taxation, all have gone up by a factor of 20, give or take. Income on the other hand, has increased (if your work hasn't been farmed out to Mexico, India, or another low-wage country) by a factor of 8, give or take.

smokeywolf

[lead chucker]

I think primers are pretty durable I had some primed 9mm cases that were in a bole on a shelf in my garage they we're in there for years I forgot about them. My garage is un heated and there is a lot of humidity here in south central Alaska. I loaded them up and they all shot fine. I was surprised I thought I would have a few duds but they all went off. They were cci's.

[TXBRILL]

I was given some old 38 S&W ammo by a neighbor who knew I had old guns. The box's were pretty tattered but ammo looked fine. I took them out and fired them all no problem, they were all factory black powder. Who knows when they were from.

[Fritz D]

Quite a few years ago I bought a case of 1000 CIL No. 8-1/2 primers (large rifle) at a gun show . . . I'm not sure of their vintage but I would guess 1960's. I've almost used them all up and they have all worked fine (so far).

[Bill*]

I have a funny suspicious that just like powders, storage can place an important role. JMHO...

PS, my Dad has WWII 4891 surplus powder that still shoots 1/2 groups because of how it has been stored...

Can I buy a bit from you? I've got a gun that wont shoot that good ;)

[rollingblock]

I recently got some RWS sinoxide primers on an online auction. I was familiar with the brand, I had used them in the late 60's. I haven't seen them here for years so I don't know the age of these but they were definately no bargain. I had two rupture and cause pitting on the bolt face with only a moderate load in my 6mm Ackley. I have never had primers rupture before and I can only assume it was past their use by date as these were all I used back in the 60's.

[ColColt]

Storage methods are everything. I have an 8# can of Unique that I bought...probably back in the early to mid 70's. I also still have some CCI LP and small pistol primers purchased around the same time frame and all still work. I finally shot up all the LP primers and not a one misfired. All these components have been kept downstairs where it's always 2-3 degrees cooler than upstairs so, it's always 68-70 degrees downstairs. Humidity is low which aids in the longevity of everything. No molds rust and components last and last. Even though I have steel garage doors with two inches of insulation I don't leave components out there. It can be 90 degrees outside but in the garage it's around 65 degrees if I keep the doors closed.

[Hang Fire]

It's all relative, but some things are just more relative than others.

[bearcove]

I've got 1930s vintage milsurp ammo that fires every time. I would imagine that, given the advances in manufacturing technology, today's primers would last many years longer if properly stored.

+1 stored properly ammo lasts a long time. Primers too. I have stuff from the 80's that is like new.

[500MAG]

Just found a can of 357 brass that I sized & primed about 25 years ago at my parents house. Took them home and loaded them up. Went to the range this weekend and they worked fine.