Help with 45-70

[brnomauser]

I finally got some jacketed bullets so I could get some fired brass to check the chamber size in my Marlin 1895SS (microgroove). It slugs at .460 so I was going to use .462 cast bullts - I have a .462 mould and .462 sizer.

But when I checked a .462 bullet in a fired case there was no way it was going in - the chamber is way too tight. This is with remington brass. The fired cases measure .482 OD and .459 ID. Case walls are .011 - 0.012. Does all this seem right?

My question is will switching to winchester brass give me the enough room for .462 bullets? I calculate I need a wall thickness of .0095 or less to release a .462 bullet (that's allowing for .001 over). Or should I think about neck turning? What is the average thickness of winchester brass?

Has anyone else encountered this problem with microgroove marlins?

[btroj]

Not with mine. I use a .460 bullet and it is just fine. Mine slugged at .458.
I would try some .460 bullets, they will probably be just fine.
.0095 neck thickness isn't very much, especially on a case like a 45-70. I don't know what mine are but I bet they are more in the .014 range. I think 32-20 and 22 hornet cases are that thin at the neck and they are pretty darn easy to mess up if you bump them on anything.

Case turning would work but that is a heap of work. Turning that long an area on a case that big is going to be big work. Think of how far down a 420 gr bullet sits in the case.

Yeah, as I consider the options I think a 460 bullet sound setter and better. Just a much easier way of doing things. And I have a feeling it is going to shoot just fine.

[fredj338]

I find RP brass thinner, so switching may not help. I would also try 0.461-0.461" & see if that fits. Cast them softer to get a bump.

[brnomauser]

Not with mine. I use a .460 bullet and it is just fine. Mine slugged at .458.
I would try some .460 bullets, they will probably be just fine.
.0095 neck thickness isn't very much, especially on a case like a 45-70. I don't know what mine are but I bet they are more in the .014 range. I think 32-20 and 22 hornet cases are that thin at the neck and they are pretty darn easy to mess up if you bump them on anything.

Case turning would work but that is a heap of work. Turning that long an area on a case that big is going to be big work. Think of how far down a 420 gr bullet sits in the case.

Yeah, as I consider the options I think a 460 bullet sound setter and better. Just a much easier way of doing things. And I have a feeling it is going to shoot just fine.
Yes but mine slugs at .460, I always thought it was a golden rule to use at least 1 thou (2 with this size bore) oversize. Surely I'd have problems pushing a .460 bullet down a .460 bore if i was pushing it hard. And i don't want to compromise - i want to be able to shoot at 1800 or so with a 350gr.

I find RP brass thinner, so switching may not help. I would also try 0.461-0.461" & see if that fits. Cast them softer to get a bump.

Damn, that's not what I heard. I always was told winchester was thinner, and when i searched i found this thread - http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11240 saying their remington brass was 11 thou like mine and someone replied their winchester brass was 7 - 8 thou.

Would someone be able to measure their winchester brass wall thickness for me?

[Jailer]

Yes but mine slugs at .460, I always thought it was a golden rule to use at least 1 thou (2 with this size bore) oversize. Surely I'd have problems pushing a .460 bullet down a .460 bore if i was pushing it hard. And i don't want to compromise - i want to be able to shoot at 1800 or so with a 350gr.


You'll never know until you try......

[dave22250]

just miked my remmy and win. the rem. was .014 and win was .010

[brnomauser]

sounds promising, 10's better than my 12...

[brnomauser]

You'll never know until you try......
That's true, but the hassle of getting hold of another sizer (and not an on the shelf one at that) is far greater than trying a different brand of brass

[Jailer]

That's true, but the hassle of getting hold of another sizer (and not an on the shelf one at that) is far greater than trying a different brand of brass

Not really, just contact Buckshot and have him make you one. It really is that painless and he does fantastic work.

[brnomauser]

You're right, it is painless. I got the 462 sizer of Buckshot and was I have to say doing business with him was fantastic, and I'm very happy with it. Which is why I'd like to try and make the .462 bullets work so that .462 sizer isn't wasted. I also believe I'll be able to push .462 bullets harder than smaller ones. Also, 10 thou brass (winchester by a few accounts now) will let me do this.

And it's easier and quicker getting winchester brass than another sizer

[Swampman]

It's a lot cheaper to use Starline brass and size them just enough to get them in the cases (if you have to) and the chamber of the rifle. I don't size at all.

[MGySgt]

You're right, it is painless. I got the 462 sizer of Buckshot and was I have to say doing business with him was fantastic, and I'm very happy with it. Which is why I'd like to try and make the .462 bullets work so that .462 sizer isn't wasted. I also believe I'll be able to push .462 bullets harder than smaller ones. Also, 10 thou brass (winchester by a few accounts now) will let me do this.

And it's easier and quicker getting winchester brass than another sizer

I think you are headed for trouble - you need enough room for the case to expand and release the boolit.

Veral Smiths book on Cast Boolit performance is to fill the chamber but you have to leave enough space that the case can expand and what happens when you have only .001 clearance and the chamber gets dirty?

Most of us that shoot Marlins shoot boolits in the .460 to .4605 range.

[brnomauser]

I think you are headed for trouble - you need enough room for the case to expand and release the boolit.

Veral Smiths book on Cast Boolit performance is to fill the chamber but you have to leave enough space that the case can expand and what happens when you have only .001 clearance and the chamber gets dirty?

Most of us that shoot Marlins shoot boolits in the .460 to .4605 range.
even with a .460 bore?

How much is enough room? With my remington brass the ID of a fired case is .459, that's leaving only .001 for a jacketed bullet. I guess there might be a bit of spring back but it would leave .002 total maybe more like .0015.

I thought it was a hard rule to go over bore size by .001 to .002, so are people with .460 bores really getting good accuracy with .460 cat bullets driven hard?

[btroj]

In reality there are no hard rules with cast bullets.
You don't want them undersized but they don't HAVE to be oversized either.

Only rule that matters is to listen to your gun. If it works, don't mess with it.

If you can get some .460 bullets I would give them a try. They may well work, they might not. Only one way to know, isn't there.