Hunting with blackpowder-Tips?

[horsesoldier]

I am going to be hunting blackpowder again this year. I use a 58 caliber cabelas muzzleloader with 530 grain minie-balls. Currently I am shooting 70 grains of triple 7 2f powder( I cant find real black anywhere close to where I live) and I am thinking about stepping up my charge to get a little bit less of an arc in my trajectory. I have zeroed dead on at 100 yards with a personal max of 125 yards. I have a lyman apeture sight. I guess I am just looking for tips of the trade when it comes to black powder hunting. I shot a nice buck a few years ago with a 50 caliber but this is going to by my first year with the 58 in the field.

The country I am hunting is pretty open, like high desert with some pine trees. I would like to extend my range to 150 yards but first I have to get my sights on at 100 yards.50 is my next step. I use rws musket caps which pretty much eliminated my hangfire but I am still left with a pretty good flinch. Except when I shoot offhand lol. The minie I am shooting has a pretty heavy skirt so I can shoot heavy charges. I just wish I could find a pound of real black to try. The triple 7 I use works great but anything I can do to decrease my lock time would be greatly apperciated.

[leadman]

Is the twist of your rifle fast enough to shoot sabots? Are they legal there?
I have an old H&R Huntsman in 58cal. I bought new in the mid to late 70's and shoot mostly roundball in it. I tried the Minie' bullets but as you know the trajectory is extreme.
Shot my first elk here in Az. with a roundball and 90grs of 2F Goex blackpowder. Went all the way thru on a broadside shot at 80 yards.
I shot steel targets at 300 yards one time. I could hit them but it would not knock them over.

With a 58 a roundball weighs about 280grs which is plenty for deer and if your rifle will shoot them accurately the recoil is much less.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I hunted for many years with a Zouave replica in caliber .58. I found my rifle has about 1-66 twist and would not shoot any boolit type well beyond 35 yards. Swicted to .57 and .575 RB with 85 grains 2F and that really made that rifle Hummmmm. Shot up to 110 grains but the best accuracy with my Zouave was at 85 grains. If your rifle has the typical shallo groove military style for Mini's you need a tight fitting RB. Just look down the barrel and you will instantly know.. shallow rifling looks like it may not even be there.
But even if you have a fast twist (1-45 or faster) I would still practice with RB everyday for a couple weeks till you brain realises you are not going to get hurt shooting that smokepole. It is all about being mentaly familiar with a system.
Me if I could not hunt to within 100 yards I would start learning how. Use the wind, crawl, spray yourself with apple juice, and use your binoculars from every rise. I know a caliber .58 ball will go through 2 large whitetails standing side by side about 3 feet apart at about 30 yards. The closest had the spine clipped and the second through the chest. I hunt river bottoms and woods so I never have a long shot (switched back to my recurves ) but RB with 85 + grains will get the lob done... unless your critters have discovered kevlar.
Mike in Peru

[StrawHat]

A round ball for a 58 will weigh about 285 grains so it is no lightweight. I have used roundball in all of my muzzleloaders and while it flattens the trajectory, I still don't consider them long range rifles, at least not for hunting puproses. If you really want to hunt at longer ranges, consider getting a rifle built with Forsythe rifling. Wide grooves, narrow lands and a slow (nearly straight) twist, they can handle a lot of powder and flatten the trajectory quite a bit. Not something to be used from the bench but great in the field.

[rhbrink]

Real BP will give you quicker, almost instantaneous ignition. A patched roundball will weigh less, so velocity will be higher, trajectory flatter, and recoil less.

Do some research and seek out a blackpowder club, or other blackpowder shooters (muzzleloader or blackpowder cartridge) and split a case of BP to lower the cost. BP doesn't have a shelf life like the substitutes.

I shoot 100gr ffg (Goex, Diamondback or KIK) in my .58 flintlock.

"BP doesn't have a self life like the substitutes"?

By every account that I have read Black Powder will last 200 years or more show me a modern powder that will last that long.

Long live black powder the "Mother of all powders" all the rest of that stuff is just a passing fancy.

Richard

[larryp]

"BP doesn't have a self life like the substitutes"?

By every account that I have read Black Powder will last 200 years or more show me a modern powder that will last that long.

Long live black powder the "Mother of all powders" all the rest of that stuff is just a passing fancy.

Richard

I think he meant that it doesn't have an expiration time like the substitutes and that it'll last forever.

[rhbrink]

That could be just wasn't the way that I read it at first if so I sure do apologize to excess650.

Richard

[Lead Fred]

The OP is from Washingrad, where the Queen has decreed black powder illegal to transport. Lead has been banned to, yet she still says she will not effect gun rights.

So you can NOT have black powder shipped into this state. We have to go to other states and carry in a few cans at a time.

Where he lives is wide open, and he will need the range. Being we dont know his barrel twist, there is no way to recomend bullet type.

I only shoot round ball, with holy black at just over 2000fps. Have yet to find a deer that can run that fast here.

[horsesoldier]

I bought my first mold today. Its a lee double cavity round ball, should work ok for what I am doing. See how she shoots with a round ball in a few weeks.Casting here I come!

I like the idea of practing with round balls until I get used to this beast. I have a bunch of old maxi balls for a 45 caliber that I am going to melt down into round balls. I dont have a 45 so this will be a good use for them.

[quilbilly]

For a while I hunted elk on the westside of the mountains with my 58 Parker Hale 2-band and 570 patched round ball. The elk died rather quickly and not from laughing at a 58 rb in front of 75 gr of FFF. The round ball was more pleasant to shoot than those minis plus a lot easier to cast. The only reason I quit the 58 was the rifle was so darned heavy and blueing so beautiful that I hated taking it out in the rain on the Washington Coast.

[horsesoldier]

Hopefully it shoots em good. I havent shot a roundball in my 58 yet

[Lead Fred]

Depends on barrel twist. If its a production gun, you most likely have a 1/48 twist, which is half way bewteen a fast twist for conicals (1/28) and a roundball twist (1/66)

[Lonegun1894]

I know this isn't the answer you want, but BP is a fairly short range tool for most shooters. I mean about 100yds or maybe a bit over, so you may or may not be able to extend that to 150, but with the trajectory involved, range estimation becomes critical for a good hit. I dont say this to discourage you in the least, just saying practice enough to be very familiar with your strenghts and limitations so you can be more efficient in the field. You will miss some opportunities that you could have taken with a modern rifle, but if you're like me when I use my .54 flint lock, this muzzle loader will be more rewarding. Best of luck.

PS: Since you all said that you can not import BP into your city/state, how about just making it? There is a post in the ML section that gives a very good description on how to make it.

[horsesoldier]

I did see the BP making post. I think thats going to be in the future sometime for me.

I am drawing a line for my range at 125 yards. I was more dismayed at the arc of the mine ball for 100 yard work! lol I am thinking the round ball is going to put the smack down on a muley this year.

Thanks for all of the comments guys. I sure apperciate it!

[quilbilly]

I know my Parker hale isn't designed for patched round ball but was pleasantly surprised when i was getting 4" groups at 100 yards. Can't hurt to try yours if you know a way to get half a dozen 57 diam round ball for experimenting. My rules of thumb for PRB has been 80 yards for 45 cal rb, 120 yds for 50 or 58 cal RB. I do all my muzzleloading hunting with round ball and save conicals for elk.

[horsesoldier]

What powder charge should I start at quilbilly? I ordered a mould so I could pour my own. Do I have to use pure lead or can I use any lead I find to make roundballs?

[greywolf444]

I used a buffalo hunter and a minie(civil was style) for years back when I was young. I remember loads were 90 gr 2fg. Grouped about the size of a playing card at 125 yds. Thats good enough for deer hunting. Killed everything that I shot with it. The ramrod would be sticking foward 6 inches on each shot. The minie is fine but not really needed in a 58. Even a roundball is huge. Flatter trajectory with the ball.
You can put one wrap of cigarette paper around the minie if its too loose. You don't want it sliding out of a clean barrel while you are hiking around. Had it happen once.
I now use a 54 roundball and 72 gr fffg. kills about the same.

[FLINTNFIRE]

The OP is from Washingrad, where the Queen has decreed black powder illegal to transport. Lead has been banned to, yet she still says she will not effect gun rights.

So you can NOT have black powder shipped into this state. We have to go to other states and carry in a few cans at a time.

Where he lives is wide open, and he will need the range. Being we dont know his barrel twist, there is no way to recomend bullet type.

I only shoot round ball, with holy black at just over 2000fps. Have yet to find a deer that can run that fast here.

Can you give me the rcw where this new regulation is , as I live in this repressive state, but I have not seen where the gay governor has banned us from receiving black powder , I hate the lead in ww ban they slipped through , and yes the low limits on powder primers and black powder they allow us to possess
Make a ball mill and get the ingredients , make your own , puyallup ,used to have a great black powder store

[KCSO]

A 50 caliber round ball pushed by 70 grains of FFg willl shooot ceear through a buffalo at 60 yards. It will go clear through a deer at a 100, you don't need that minnie if you can shoot a round ball. 1-48 to 1-66 to 1-72 will all shoot round ball at hunting velocities. A 58 caliber round ball will drop anything in the world if you put it in the right spot. Practice out to 100 yards and when you can shoot a 4" group at that range you are ready to hunt, power charge is not near as important as accuracy and practice will let you make shots to 100 yards with ease.

[leadman]

I would start with 70grs of 2F and go up from there. Recoil will probably get unpleasant around 90 to 100grs.
Use a good patch and lube. I use Crisco and the Thompson Center bore butter.
The patched roundball will not scrape the fouling out of the bore like a minie' so clean the bore often. Even just a brush works well between shots especially with black poowder.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

If you lived closer or were passing thru my way i would trade you a fresh can of 2f real black , i have gone to all 3f for the 50's as it burns better for me , very fast ignition

if your looking to order black the price compared to 777 is not bad even with shipping try http://www.addictedtoblackpowder.com/2.html

9.50 a pound for the diamondback it is good powder with shipping is $11.12 a can but you have to get 25 pounds in a case so you need a few friends or order a life time supply depending on how much you shoot , but the prices for 777 i have been seeing are around 30 dollars a pound

when we shoot patched round ball , we use 1/3 rubbing alcohol 1/3 hydrogen peroxide 1/3 Murphy oil soap in a small spray bottle , spray the patch then load

we shoot all day without brushing or swabbing the barrel loading doesn't get any harder it keeps the fouling very loose.

for hunting i do use a lee R.E.A.L. so i can't say about how this works as a patch lube for days or weeks of carrying a gun around loaded , but i suspect it would be very much like a spit patch and that has worked fine for centuries.

[horsesoldier]

If you lived closer or were passing thru my way i would trade you a fresh can of 2f real black , i have gone to all 3f for the 50's as it burns better for me , very fast ignition

if your looking to order black the price compared to 777 is not bad even with shipping try http://www.addictedtoblackpowder.com/2.html

9.50 a pound for the diamondback it is good powder with shipping is $11.12 a can but you have to get 25 pounds in a case so you need a few friends or order a life time supply depending on how much you shoot , but the prices for 777 i have been seeing are around 30 dollars a pound

when we shoot patched round ball , we use 1/3 rubbing alcohol 1/3 hydrogen peroxide 1/3 Murphy oil soap in a small spray bottle , spray the patch then load

we shoot all day without brushing or swabbing the barrel loading doesn't get any harder it keeps the fouling very loose.

for hunting i do use a lee R.E.A.L. so i can't say about how this works as a patch lube for days or weeks of carrying a gun around loaded , but i suspect it would be very much like a spit patch and that has worked fine for centuries.



I called them today to ask if they would ship it here and I guess I got one of the daughters on the phone. She said her dad wasnt there so I am back to square one lol. Gotta love small business!

[quilbilly]

If you try PRB, start with about 70 gr of FF or equivalent. I always preferred 75 gr of 3F Goex which would be similar to about 90 gr of 2F. Since you will be hunting in drier country than I do, any of the imitation black powders work just fine but, believe it or not, during the late season monsoons west of the mountains, I get fewer misfires with real black powder. Some of the imitation blacks pull water out of the air even faster than real black. Hoped the early blackpowder season isn't as hot weather wise than last year when I was out chasing mules in the scablands.

[horsesoldier]

What part of the state were you hunting? I got an email back from addicted to black powder saying they could ship it to me.

[Lonegun1894]

I should have said this earlier, but I use nothing but PRBs in mine and get better performance when the lead meets flesh than I ever did when I was using Lee REALs, and also get better accuracy. I know this will start a flame war, but I have .32, .45, .50, .54, and .710, and all use plain old round balls. The .32 I limit to small game and varmints, but the .45 and on up work great on deer. I limit the .45 to 75yds, .50s and .54s to 125yds, and the .710 is a SxS smoothbore with just a front bead so I limit it to 50yds because I dont trust myself further. That .58 rifle should slightly outperform my .54s, and I trust those for any shot at any angle on deer or large hog in Texas. I wouldn't hesitate to use my .54s with ball on any animal on this continent, but there's no elk, moose, etc around here, so I haven't had a chance to take one yet. I have had lenghtwise pass throughs with my .54s on white tail bucks and hogs, though, so penetration isn't a problem and neither is expansion.

[horsesoldier]

Will a round ball flatten out on a deer? I am thinking of using pure lead to make rounds balls,might be able to expand more

[quilbilly]

My mule deer hunting in Washington has either been near Lake Wenatchee or a place that shall remain nameless in the vicinity of Moses Lake (at least until I get one of those 4- 185+ B&C typicals I seem to see regularly when not hunting them. The biggest one is 200+ and will probably die of old age next winter still laughing at me). My experience is that round ball don't flatten much but don't seem to need to. I don't think there is anything more devastating on deer than round ball which is why I save my conicals for elk when more penetration is needed. BTW - the second largest mule deer buck taken by a muzzleloader in this state was taken on the hill above Lake Wenatchee. He was the second largest of the bunch that morning and I missed the biggest but another ML hunter down the hill got the "smaller". I shot pics and put them in the guy's local newspaper after I helped him get it out. Didn't have the heart to tell him about the other one. That area, a clearcut, is thick, thick brush now.

[horsesoldier]

Few years ago I shot a doe in the mission unit in 251. Had a second deer tag for that area. If you ever plan on swinging through Yakima send me a message and we will get together.Be nice to talk face to face with someone else that has shot a 58.I am one of the few I know around here.

[waksupi]

Round balls are pre-expanded. I go the other direction, and only use WW RB's for deer and elk. I want more penetration.

[horsesoldier]

Sounds good. Thanks for helping me clear that up guys

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I called them today to ask if they would ship it here and I guess I got one of the daughters on the phone. She said her dad wasnt there so I am back to square one lol. Gotta love small business!

they live on a farm they run beef he has another job , they have have a small office and a powder magazine out back , they are small very small but good people


they really are very nice people.

[quilbilly]

I am glad all is cleared up for you. I would be more confused than ever. Actually I have taken elk and deer with either projectile and all were dead when I field dressed them. There are no degrees of dead last I heard. Conicals do have their advantages at times but whenever possible, I am a round ball kind of guy

[NSP64]

Hi,I shoot fast twist inline modern muzzle loaders. I shoot prb through them. Havent been hunting with them yet, but I can hit a soda can at 100 yrds everytime. If its full of water you would have thought it was shot with a high power rifle.

[horsesoldier]

Made my first Boolits today!!!!!!! Thanks guys for the all of the tips!

I have enough for the range tommorow, thinking I am going to start at 70 grains and work my way up. I borrowed a electric ladle from a friend so I could make some round balls. There was about a pound of lead in the bottom and I have no idea what alloy was in it. But it sure filled my mold better than the pure lead I tried later on. I weight sorted them to within 1 grain, so I made alot and ended up with a few! lol!

[quilbilly]

FYI - If you ever head over the mountains to the Washington Arms Collectors show in Puyallup, there is a black powder shop just down the river from there. They always seem to have the real thing (Goex etc) in stock. That lead in the bottom of the ladle probably had plenty of tin in it.

[horsesoldier]

I will keep that in mind. Its crazy, all this effort to try and find real black powder.