.45-70 + 2400 + 400gr Lee do I need wadding?

[Rick R]

How much does wadding contribute to .45-70 loads with 2400? The Lyman recipe calls for it with a 400gr boolit. I tried a few without and got up to 24.5gr with just under 2" groups at 50 yards using ghost ring sights. I can live with that, but is there a good reason to use some type of wadding in levergun loads?

TIA

[Lead Fred]

The problem with a little bit of powder is thee can be a delay in igntion due to the powder laying below the primer firing arc.

By stuff a 45 cal wad, and filler, the powder charge is now stuffed tight against the primer.

I use veggie wads and dacron filler.

I will never use pistol powder in my rifles, even with 36-38gr of reloader 7, I still like the powder packed into the bottom of the case.

[Larry Gibson]

I suggest a dacron filler instead of "wadding" or a wad. The wad can be jarred loose in rounds in the magazine from recoil and the powder can migrate in and around the wad. This can cause hangfires or misfires. A filler of 1 gr of dacron pushed just inside the case mouth and then letting the bullet push it the rest of the way will keep the powder against the primer and will not jar loose from recoil.

Larry Gibson

[Rick R]

Thanks!

I used dacron tufts in a .405 Winchester light load and didn't like the smell, then I went to using a half a cotton ball. No burnt plastic smell but beau coup cotton fibers floating in the air after each shot. :)

I may try dacron again as it seems to be the popular choice.

[runfiverun]

i use the 22.5 gr load with the dacron [not a ball of it] enough to go from the powder to the boolit.
with some compression.
i use the lee 425 gas check mold and was using the magma 405 rnfp p/b,
left over from before i swapped off the mold.
i like the dacron in this instance mainly because of the case size/diameter and it being a levergun.

[btroj]

I have shot many loads with 24 gr of 2400 and a 420 gr cast. No filler.
Slowly but surely Larry is convincing me a filler might be a good idea.

Let me put it this way. No filler certainly works well, the key is that the filler may make it work better. I also have found I can reduce powder charge about 1.5 to 2 gr and get the same velocity.

[Rick R]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the input!

I'll load up a few more in the 23.0 to 24.5 gr range and see what my particular gun likes best.

[odfairfaxsub]

20 gr 2400 w 405 gr bullet was killer out of my bfr no filler

[rintinglen]

I use a bamboo fiber filler in all my 45-70 2400 loads. (It lofts well, was cheap, and they were out of Dacron at the fabric store).
I have tried it both ways--filler and no filler, and I get less vertical stringing with the filler than without.
I recommend against the use of fillers in bottlenecked cartridges, but in the 38-55, .444, and 45-70, they are a real benefit, reducing velocity variations markedly in my testing.

If you doubt the usefulness, try this experiment. Load 30 rounds of 45-70 with 22 grains of 2400 and the boolit of your choice. Load and fire 10 rounds over your chronograph, raising the barrel and giving the stock a slap before gently lowering the rifle to line up the sights. Next, level the rifle barrel and shake the the rifle slightly front to rear, and fire 10 more rounds, repeating the level shaking each time. Finally, load the rifle, point the muzzle downwards and slap the stock before firing. Compare the results of your 10 shot tests.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have never tried fillers and I have found that 2400 is not really position sensitive. It and 231 are two of the American powders I have used a lot of. Most of my other experience comes from Aussie powder, sold in the states as Hodgson, clays, varget, etc. I must try wadding one day.

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but the black powder shooters at my range use all sorts of wadding. They think I'm crazy, because I always say that my fav filler is ffg, and I am also partial to fffg, lol.

[mcal762]

My marlin 1895ss 22" barrel produced 1315 fps with a 405 fb bullet with 25 gr 2400 with dacron tuff on top. Shoots very well..

[NSB]

I have used fillers on some loads. That being said, with 2400 I've done a side by side comparison with and without and the accuracy results were the same. It is one of my most accurate loads either way. With 2400 I no longer bother. FWIW, listen to Larry about how to use fillers and not wads. You can ring a barrel with a wad and you won't with a correct filler.

[flint45]

I use a tuft of dacron in .45-70 loads with small powder charges I have all so done accuracy tests not to much differnce but the ones with dacron are more consistent in my gun.Much better ignition I think.

[Elkins45]

I saw a recommendation somewhere to use one of those starch-based foam packing peanuts inside a 45-70 case. I’ve never done it but the idea makes sense to me.

[veeman]

Depending on powder, I use Staples packing peanuts, or rather a half of one in my 45/75 smokeless loads. It's made of corn so biodegradable. Never had any problem with it, What little I have found of it after firing, burns up pretty good.
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/010046471428/media/53680287180/medium/1515450375/enhance
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/010046471428/media/53680287117/medium/1515450371/enhance

[Elkins45]

Yep, those are the ones.

[john.k]

Dont ring your chamber...it aint hard to do.

[mcal762]

25 gr of 2400 405gr badman .459 bullet and a puff of dacron produced 1/2" at 50yds today 35 degrees and chrony 1400fps from my Marlin 1895 ss

[pls1911]

+ 1 for Larry's position on dacron fiber.
25 grains of 2400 and a pinch of dacron fiber under a Ranch Dog/NOE 350 is an easy shooting pig killin' recipe, especially from a heavy gun like a Rem Roller or Sharps.
A LITTLE fiber pinched off and seated in the case prior to bullet seating works fine to hold the powder against the primer. NOT compressed, but just enough to gently fill the void.
In my experience, the heat and pressure apparently create a melting/sealing effect, protecting plain bases from eroding under nominal loads. However, I normally shoot gas check designs, but he barrel is always left spotless after firing.