Alloying ww's for casting hp's

[paul h]

For some reason I'm not able to use the search function, and I'm sure this is has been discussed in the past.

I've never cast hp's, but am currently in on two, possibly three mi-hec group buys. So, time for me to consider what alloy I'm going to cast them with. I've always been a keep it simple caster, straight ww's either air cooled or water quenched, which has met my needs to date. The reason I'd avoided hp's to date is it seemed like it would slow down production too much, but the cramer design, and a 4 cavity seems like that will adress that issue.

So, I figure I'll be loading the 357 hp to 1200-1500 fps, and the 45 hp to ~900 fps. If the 477 buy goes through, I'll be running it 1100-1200 fps.

Great, I've managed to complicate my life by not only needing a more ductile alloy than straight ww's, I'll even need to go with at least two different alloys for the different muzzle velocities :lol:

I'm considering adding tin to ww's, or cutting the ww's with pure lead and adding tin. Any good ballpark alloying mixes for my applications?

[white eagle]

I have been using 20/1 lead/tin with my hp boolits
gets me the expansion I need I save ww for target loads
and paper punching with all the **** in them that is all there good for

[paul h]

I'm thinking of cutting my ww's 50/50 with pure lead and adding 2% tin as a starting point. Now I just need to see if I can trade my buddy out of 100#'s of lead. Seems like it'll be pretty easy to mix up 12 bars ww, 12 bars lead, 1 bar 50/50 lead/tin.

[Bardo]

I use 2 parts WW with 1 part pure lead and 1% tin. And this is what I get in a 45 ACP probably around 850 fps. But that is with WW that are less then 10 years old. I just got some ingots that were made from WW from the 70's and they had a BHN of 14.5 on my cabin tree tester.

Bardo

double click to enlarge
44490

[paul h]

Thanks. As I recall a few years back a buddy tested my air cooled ww's and said they measured bhn 13.

[lwknight]

The 1-2 % tin for 45s should be great but I think you might do better with 5% on the .357 mag.
I have had bullets turn inside out and hold 98% weight with 5% tin.
The tin keeps the bullet from sharding off chunks. Its like an indestructible blob
that bores deep and wide.

[fryboy]

the tin does add malleability to the mix ( a very good thing IMHO ) i experimented a bit for a hp 45 mold and i doubt that the end result is tough enough for hi pressure loads in the 357 ( maybe gas checked ones ) i ended up with basically 3 to 1 ( Pb to WW ) and added 2% tin , expansion is awesum !!! no leading even at max 45 acp loads and several friends i gifted with sample state that either " they be too pretty to shoot " or " i'm saving the rest for personal defense loads " , the alloy dings right at 9 Bhn on my lee tester ( but also as noted above WW vintage/composition can play a part in this )

[sixshot]

When I use HP's I've always used the mix below & its worked very well.

800 fps= 50% WW's, 50% lead

900 fps= 60% WW's, 40% lead

1000fps= 70% WW's, 30% lead

1100 fps= 80% WW's, 20% lead

1200 fps= 90% WW's, 10% lead

over 1200 fps, I've just used straight WW alloy. This is for plain base slugs, using a gas check changes things a bit. Its always a balance between velocity, expansion & leading. A lot of game has been taken & a lot of gun fights ended with pure lead at 800-900 fps in the early sixguns.
I almost always used the 70-30 mix at 1000-1100 fps for hunting.

Dick

[Tristan]

I use 2 parts WW with 1 part pure lead and 1% tin. And this is what I get in a 45 ACP probably around 850 fps. But that is with WW that are less then 10 years old. I just got some ingots that were made from WW from the 70's and they had a BHN of 14.5 on my cabin tree tester.

Bardo

double click to enlarge
44490

Beautiful expansion, in what medium?

My plan is to use between 3:1 to 1:1 Lead:WW + 2%-4% Tin, depending on target velocity.

Tin amount depends on the approximate amount of Antimony - I'm to approximately match the % of antimony in my mix. If the higher percentage of tin proves to be unnecessary, I'll let ya'll know.

- Tristan

[fredj338]

20-1 lead/tin makes a great LHP alloy up to at least 1200fps. You can cut clip ww 50/50 w/ lead & get good results to w/ 1% tin. I'm working on an alloy for my 350grLHP 45/70 cup points @ 1600fps. I tried some range scrap & thebullet held together well, lost only 7-8gr & expanded to well over an inch, but I think accuracy could be better. Maybe water droping the range scrap will be better.

[lwknight]

Beautiful expansion, in what medium?


Tin amount depends on the approximate amount of Antimony - I'm to approximately match the % of antimony in my mix. If the higher percentage of tin proves to be unnecessary, I'll let ya'll know.

- Tristan

Antimony will bond to tin up to at least 1 tin for 3 antimony parts.
Higher tin percentages will add malleability big time.
I think that 2% tin with even up to 3% antimony will be a happy starting place
for ductile semi-hard bullets.

With antimony levels at the 1% range , more than 2-3 % tin will not likely gain much
for ductility.