Corrosive bore cleaner

[JASON50CAL]

What is the best bore cleaner to use after firing corrosive ammo. It seems like i still get rust after i clean them and they set for a while, I even tried blackpowder solvent and still get rust

[oneokie]

Windex with ammonia, followed by hot soapy water to remove the ammonia. Then a good gun oil.

[zuke]

I picked up 24 can's of this stuff at $2.99/dozen 25 year's ago.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-WWII-Cleaner-Rifle-Bore-1943-Spec-USA-2-117-/160803416298?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2570a168ea

[swheeler]

Hot soapy water followed by a good drying and an oily patch.

[Char-Gar]

It really takes water to get rid of the corrosive salts. Hot soapy water or old GI Bore cleaner like Zuke has mention get the job done. The GI bore cleaner has lots and lots of water in it. Smell terrible, but works well.

[joec]

I'm trying something new on my cowboy action guns which I've been shooting pyrodex through. I had to go back and clean again a few days later though I wasn't having a rust problem. I mixed a batch equal parts of Murphy's Oil Soap, Hydrogen Peroxide and Rubbing alcohol then either straight Ballistol or Bore Butter 1000 depending on how long it will sit for the lube. I have also used simple green but it does have water in it also which bothers me a bit though if dried then oiled good in most cases shouldn't be a problem. It just bothers me a bit is all.

[Ed in North Texas]

Any of the copper removing bore cleaners containing ammonia will do an excellent job. My preference is Sweet's 7.62 because I find it to be one of the more aggressive copper cleaners. If you are firing corrosive primed ammo, it is usually military (either pre-mid 50s US, or foreign - particularly ComBloc) and will have jacketed bullets. Kill two birds with one shot and get rid of the copper and the corrosive salts with one cleaner. The above suggestions will remove the salts, and the powder fouling, but not the jacket fouling.

Ed

[joec]

Any of the copper removing bore cleaners containing ammonia will do an excellent job. My preference is Sweet's 7.62 because I find it to be one of the more aggressive copper cleaners. If you are firing corrosive primed ammo, it is usually military (either pre-mid 50s US, or foreign - particularly ComBloc) and will have jacketed bullets. Kill two birds with one shot and get rid of the copper and the corrosive salts with one cleaner. The above suggestions will remove the salts, and the powder fouling, but not the jacket fouling.

Ed

Yes and I would probably add a bit of vinegar to the mix I'm trying for jacketed bullets but with my stuff it is all lead.

[Chicken Thief]

Yes and I would probably add a bit of vinegar to the mix I'm trying for jacketed bullets but with my stuff it is all lead.

Ammonia os a base ie. PH ower 7
Vinegar is an asid ie. PH below 7

So adding vinegar kind of defies the purpose of the ammonia = copper salt builder/copper remower.

The two will neutralise each other and cansel the copper dissolving effect of the ammonia.

But each to his own.

[JASON50CAL]

I used the murphys oil,alcohol and proxide years ago for muzzleloaders alot but swithched, i will have to mix some more up to try.

[Larry Gibson]

Windex with ammonia or Dawn dish soap in hot water to get rid of the intial crud and fouling. Dry imediately and then clean with Hoppe's #9 (It was made 100+ years ago for cleaning corrosive residue out of barrels and still works as good today). I let the barrel soak in Hoppe's over night and then clean and oil (Kroil) the next day. If cupro or copper fouling persists I will use Sweat's or JB bore paste to remove as there will still be corrosive salts under the fouling. You will be surprised at how much the Dawn gets out and then how easily the Hoppe's cleans out the rest.

Larry Gibson

Windex with vinegar works great with BP but as Chicken Thief mentions they cancel each others benifits out if mixed.

[Junior1942]

+ 1 on the Hoppes #9 if you have corrosive and copper. Just corrosive, water works fine.

[Me not you]

Potassium Chloride is the stuff left by corrosive primers. It's a form of salt. Hot water dissolves it and rinses it right out. I usually remove the copper using SWEETs or similar solvent first, then follow up with a hot water rinse. After the water I dry and oil the barrel.

If you want to see what the stuff does, get some of this:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/357456-potassium-chloride-salt-substitutes/

Then sprinkle a little on a bare (un-oiled or painted) piece of steel.

[zomby woof]

I would clean up at the range with windex. Make sure you clean the bolt and firing pin etc... I would then coat with #9. I would bring home and clean the barrel until all the copper is out. Either overnight for several days with #9 or something stronger like JB or KG12 etc.. I've never had a problem with this method. My theory is your dealing with salts, nothing cleans up salt better than soap and water. I worried about salt trapped under the copper fouling. that's why it has to all come out.

[Gtek]

Dad was an old school HOLY BLACK NUT. He told me that the hot soapy was the only thing to use.
"J"'s were not used so non issue. He boiled 2 gallon / good squirt in pot and out the door he went.
Muzzle or flash hole submerged and a swishing away he went, siphoning in and out. He explained the action of the water cutting the salts and removing natural lubes, but the hot water was to expand surface (molecule wise)to release all that was trapped by barrel cooling and contraction after firing. I have stayed with some , I use #9 at bench post firing to get me home. I have made nylon muzzle plugs with holes to control outflow with sized hoses in rear chamber for seal attached to funnel to flow bores. Good sized tea pot rolling works for me, water evaporates in 5 to 10 seconds. Dry patch to confirm then follow with #9, oil, Bore Butter, etc. Has worked flawless for thirty plus on Pyro, Black and the Com-Bloc fodder- no issues. I still check for growth day ot two out just cause. Gtek

[JASON50CAL]

Thanks guys for the help, might just try the windex and see how it works.

[MtGun44]

three wet patches with Windex with vinegar, then 3 patches wet with Hoppes #9.
Preferably when the bbl is still warm at the range.

Bill

[ilcop22]

I usually spray down my bore and bolt with Windex w/ amonia after firing at the range, then run a patch or two down them. When I get home, I clean as usual with #9 or BreakFree CLP.

[Lead Fred]

Dudes, its a built up affair now, it needs the WWII stuff first.
Its real nasty stuff. I have a quart can. You need to use it outside, and with a mask on.
Ive taken hairy mauser bores and made them shine again.
Then windex, then oil patch.

[Multigunner]

Balistol is great stuff but it has its limitations.
I once used straight balistol to clean my BP 1851 Navy replica. While is appeared perfectly clean when I put it away, several months later I found some serious rust had formed in the angle of each rifling groove.
Balistol by itself won't always clean up corrosive elements, in this case likely from BP powder residue rather than from the primers.
Balistol can be used with water, and seems to do the trick when used that way.

The rust that had formed was unusually tough to get out. It seemed to have formed a very hard crust. Even a .410 bronze bristle brush made no impression on that crust.
Several sessions of shooting and cleaning finally broke up the crust.

[MtGun44]

WW2 bore cleaner is totally unnecessary.

Bill

[JASON50CAL]

I don't even know where to get WW2 bore cleaner. Think i'll try windex. Thanks for all the replies.

[jonk]

My standard answer on the subject:

Water, water, water! NOT ammonia or Windex! Or for that matter, not Hoppes.

Corrosive primers contain a salt compound. Ever leave a shaker of salt on the kitchen table in a humid environment? It gets clogged and water condenses on the top. Same thing happens in your rifle bore eventually causing pitting and rusting if left uncleaned.

Salt is a very neutral compound. Very stable and non-reactive, though it does retain water fairly well (hygroscopic). That being the case, it CANNOT be NEUTRALIZED (as if it were and acid or base) it can ONLY be dissolved and therefore washed away. So HOT WATER with a little soap perhaps is best. Windex and ammonia only work as they have water in them. Hoppes works because it contains about 8% water. The drawbacks to these though are- ammonia and windex can harm gun finishes; they have enough water in them to do the job but why risk it? Hoppes worries me as it has so little water in it. Pour a pint or two down the bore, wipe off the bolt face, and dry. If a semi auto, do the same to the gas system. Clean as normal, then oil and you are done. Period.


What DOES Windex or Ammonia do? Well they are useful for removing copper fouling so if you want to use them go for it, but otherwise, it is hardly necessary to play with foul smelling compounds that can mess up wood and perhaps metal finishes when water works fine.

Finally, if your water is hot it is both more effective at dissolving the salts and it flash dries.

One other option is to use USGI WW2 military bore cleaner- it was made to clean corrosive primers, but it's mainly water soluble oil and water, nothing fancy.

[rollmyown]

I 100% agree with jonks detailed answer. Petrolium based solvent does not work because of polarity. Try seeing how well salt or sugar dissolves in petrol (gasoline).

[Brasso]

Back in the day it was required to clean with GI bore cleaner or hot soapy water three consecutive days after firing.

Sam

[WineMan]

Or at least twice cleaned a couple of days apart.

Hatcher's Notebook had a great chapter on this subject. Many of the "gun oils" have both polar (water loving, charged) and non polar (uncharged oil loving) that is how detergents work. One part grabs the crud and the other the water.

As said salts are not neutralized but washed away in the water (highly charged + and -), but some can hide in cracks, under fouling not removed etc. Windex is mostly water and alcohol. It is good as it does not leave water in the barrel. Hot water is great as it is cheap but it needs to be really hot. When I cold blue I use water as a rinse, then WD-40 to get the water and leave an oily residue.

Twice with #9, Windex and CLP, hot water followed by (pick yer poison). Like most cleaning you do need some Elbow grease to be sure stuff gets moved out. Eds Red is my gun cleaner of choice, the acetone is pretty polar but I still use Windex first at the range.

Plenty of our rifles had their share of Chlorate primers and we are the beneficiaries of good armorers and NCO's as we have them to shoot today.

Clean early and often.

Wineman

[Ed in North Texas]

RE: Use of ammonia bearing cleaners and potential damage to firearm finishes.

I used soapy water to clean my black powder rifles, followed by a thin coat of Kroil for storage. But they won't ever see corrosive primers in my use.

The only ammunition which we would normally come across is military surplus, and mostly ComBloc at that. Even the current production former Soviet countries produce ammunition for the US market with non-corrosive primers these days. I've shot corrosive US military surplus (.30 caliber headstamps as far back as FA-18), though I wouldn't today. My corrosive ammo stockpile is now restricted to a bunch of 8x57 milsurp. My Mausers won't notice if I slop a little Sweet's on the metal, or wood, and I won't be leaving it on anyway.

I don't think there will be people firing non-jacketed ammo which was loaded with corrosive primers, so copper fouling will pretty much be a constant.

Ed

[MtGun44]

Windex is water and soap with a touch of acetic acid (vinegar). It dissolves the oily crud with
the vinegar and soap so the water can remove the salts. Works perfectly to totally remove
the salts, but leaves the bore wet with water and it will rust. So then use a bit of your
favorite oil-based cleaner (I like Hoppe's #9, use what you like) and remove the trace water
and leave a corrosion inhibiting oily residue.

Plain water works, but is less effective than soapy water. If you want to save money, make
up a soapy water solution (a couple of drops of dishwashing detergent in a pint should be
about right) and use that. Windex is just handy and has a nice dispenser. No magic.

Bill

[WineMan]

Possibly a different formula for Windex? Here is the MSDS and acetic acid is not listed but Iso-propyl alcohol is.

http://arts.ucalgary.ca/theatres/sites/arts.ucalgary.ca.theatres/files/Windex_Original_Streak-Free_Glass_CleanerMSDS.pdf

Wineman

[MtGun44]

Not all versions of Windex have vinegar. It has to say - "Windex with Vinegar" on the
bottle.

Bill

[buck1]

Hot water , followed by a oily patch or two. This was very hard for me to try. I would'nt want water on my guns. But a old gunsmith talked me in to it , and it works great. Normal bore solivents wont get rid of the salts. But you can follow up with them to clean out the copper.

Not saying other things wont work well also, but I can say HOT water does work.

[Multigunner]

The Windex formula has been changed several times since it first came on the market.
From Wikipedia


Windex is a trademark for a glass and hard-surface cleaner manufactured since 1933. S. C. Johnson acquired Windex in 1993 and has been manufacturing since The product was recently reformulated with more environmentally desirable solvents.[1]

The original Windex was colored a light, transparent shade of blue, but varieties are marketed today in a variety of colors (ocean fresh blue, sunshine lemon and citrus orange) and fragrances (spring bouquet, ocean mist, lavender and tea tree), and with a variety of additives such as vinegar, lemon, lime, or orange juice.

When Windex was invented in 1933 by Harry R. Drackett, it was almost 100% solvent. It was highly flammable and had to be sold in metal cans. When modern surfactants were introduced after World War II, the product was reformulated.

The Sam Wise patent #3,463,735 lists example formulae, one of which is 4.0% isopropyl alcohol (a highly volatile solvent) 1% ethylene glycol monobutyl ether (a less volatile solvent), 0.1% sodium lauryl sulfate (a surfactant), 0.01% tetrasodium pyrophosphate (a water softener), 0.05% of 28% ammonia, 1% of a dye solution, and 0.01% perfume. This formula was not only less expensive to manufacture, but allowed the product to be packaged in glass bottles and dispensed with a plastic sprayer.



I had been about to suggest trying dime store rubbing alcohol with a low percentage of alcohol, such as 40%, the rest being water. Some of these cheap rubbing alcohols also contain lanolin, which might be a plus.

One should use a nitro-powder solvent and/or copper solvent as well if using smokeless-powders and J-word bullets.

A moisture replacing penetrating oil should be used after cleaning with any solution that contains water.

[WineMan]

If you look on the Johnson MSDS site, there are about 30 different "Windex" formulations. It has become a brand and not just for windows as they say. Regardless, it is mostly water and as most in this thread have said: "its the water" (Same as Olympia beer?). If we shower we rinse the salts off, it is the soap (and scrubbing) that gets the oils and dirt off our skin.

Heat a cup of water in the microwave, use a funnel and tygon tubing to get it into the chamber and bore. Scrub, more hot water and finish cleaning like normal. Do another normal cleaning a day or two later and you should be good to go. Don't forget the bolt and area around the muzzle and front sight. If you pierce a primer, take the bolt apart and clean it thoroughly.

Wineman

[Multigunner]

When adding transmission fluid to my sisters German car I had to buy a special offset funnel with long end for the purpose.
I remember thinking at the time that the funnel looked very much like the funnel the British had used to pour hot water through Lee Enfield bores during detailed cleaning.
This sort of funnel should still be available at Auto-Shack or Auto-Zone.

[John Boy]

What is the best bore cleaner to use after firing corrosive ammo.
If you can find some - Young's 303 Bore Cleaner, mixed 50:50 with water

[Jack Stanley]

There are a lot of ways to clean the stuff by the looks of it . Certainly hot water will get it done and of course you need to re-oil the metal when done . Windex with vinegar or ammonia works well and you still need to re-oil when done .

For the little bit of corrosive ammo that I use , I refill my windex sprayer with a home-made solution . I don't remember where I got the formula but it does work pretty well for surplus ammo . Eight ounces of ammonia , half that of denatured alcohol go into the large Windex bottle ( looks like a quart bottle ) fill with water then add a quarter teaspoon of dishsoap . Shake it up and it's ready to use as it is and has lots of water for diluting the salt . The ammonia works on jacket fouling , the soap and alcohol work on powder I think .

I like taking the spray bottle to the range with me and when finished for the day , I'll spray into the chamber with the muzzle down untill it flows freely out the barrel . I let the most of it drip out and wrap the muzzle with a rag untill I get home so it won't drip more into the case on the way home . At home , it gets another spraying and a brushing too . The bolt gets wiped along with everything in the chamber area and then everything gets dried and oiled . It gets checked the next day for the "just in case" thing .

This is not something I do for just twenty rounds or so , I normally don't shoot corrosive unless I use up a couple hundred rounds in a day . I will work through this pile of ammo someday .... oh the humanity of it all :lol:

Jack

[Doug Bowser]

I use 1/4 cup Murphy's Oil Soap concentrate to 1 gallon water. Swab the bore, dry the bore 1\2 hour later, use bronze brush with Hoppe's #9 and cycle 12 times. dry the bore and oil lightly. Check he bore after 3 days and if it is dusty looking, repeat procdure. I have NEVER had to repeat the procedure.'

Doug