3 cav. mold

[Ben]

I bought this 38 / 357 Mag. 3 cav. mold a few days ago.
It is either an old Cramer or a SAECO, ( I'm not certain......
maybe you can identify it ? )

There are no markings on the mold anywhere.
There is no identification on the sprue plate or on the mold blocks.

Must be pretty old ? ?

Cast very nice bullets. Has a generous lube groove like the 477 and 429.
Reminds me a lot of the 477, by the way.

Weight is also very similar to the 477'. You can crank out some bullets with this
mold, I spun a bullet in each cavity with fine Clovers abrasive on the bullets.
The bullets " jump " from all 3 cavities now when the mold is opened. The mold has
very small holes in the sprue plate for alloy to travel through. Doesn't seem to affect
the mold at all having such small holes. Nothing near as large as today's molds.

The bullets size out nice and round at .358" ( with all 3 bands miking .358" ) , which suits my needs very well.

Here are some photos :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/009-16.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/010-15.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/011-16.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/015-10.jpg

The bullets are amazingly consistent in weight , cavity to cavity.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/017-8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/018-8.jpg

[badbob454]

check this out this is my original mold , post
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=148634

[Dennis Eugene]

Sprue plate is a lil different but what with the vent lines on top and none on the faces plus the allingment pins and holes it looks like Lachmiller to me. But I'm just guessin here Ben. Dennis

[GP100man]

I figured I missed a good 1 Ben , glad to see it fits ya needs though .
The vent lines on top are identical to my 2 holer Lachmiller & although my 2 holer is marked ,it has no markings other wise.

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_0506.jpg

[Ben]

The shape of the sprue plate on this one reminds me more of a Cramer ?
You'd have thought that the maker of the mold would have at least put their name on the mold ? ?

Ben

[41 mag fan]

Looks like a really good boolit to seat out and play with full powder charges for the 357.

Where'd you come up with that mold at Ben? Just being curious here.

Oh yeah, what lube you got on there??? Don't look like Bens Red to me!!

[Ben]

41 mag fan

I bought the mold from badbobgerman. Your right that isn't Ben's Red, It is some NRA formula lube that I got on a trade that I'm just using up that was on my bench

[41 mag fan]

Ben, looks like a good mold regardless, to play with in the 38/357 area.
Be interesting to know the maker of the mold though.

[Ben]

Doesn't it seem odd that the maker didn't even put their name on it ?

[41 mag fan]

Doesn't it seem odd that the maker didn't even put their name on it ?

Yes you are correct there. Just deepens the mystery and wanting to find out the maker even more.
Especially if it's a shooter!

[6.5 mike]

Just does not look right without Ben's red, :Fire:.

[GP100man]

Just a WAG ,but could ita been a copy someone cut & just did`nt mark it ???

HHhhmmm.

[Ben]

I suppose that anything is possible. If it was done by an individual he was GOOD.

When you take bullets from each of the 3 cavities and place them in a scale they are VERY close in weight.

[Beau Cassidy]

The spru plate hinge screw looks very much like an elderly Saeco mold I have. So do the spru plate holes. I don't believe my mold (number 441, I think), has the lines in the top of the mold. It does have a very thick base like yours. My guess is an early Saeco.

[Ben]

I've been thinking about all this and it has caused me to go back and look at some photos of an old Cramer that I sold about 2 yrs. ago. I still have the photos .........so I looked at them to compare the Cramer to my current mold. VERY INTERESTING.

Here is an old Cramer ( I KNOW it is a Cramer because it is written on the sprue plate.)

Notice the shape of the sprue plate and the location of the hinge bolt, etc.

I'm beginning to think this mold is a Cramer. Why it doesn't have the name Cramer on it is unknown to me. The mold is so very similar to a Cramar ? ?

My 1st photo below is of my Unknown maker 38 / 357 mold shown in the OP :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/009-16.jpg

Here is the Cramar, notice the similarity of the shape of the sprue plate. Also notice where the sprue bolt lock screw is located on both molds.

Not much doubt in my mind that this is a Cramer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/IMG_1071.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/IMG_1067.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/IMG_1071.jpg

[BCall]

Is the mold you know is a Cramer marked on the blocks or just on the sprue plate? If it is just the sprue plate, it could have been changed at some time, hence no markings on the other mold. Saeco bought Cramer, and some of the earlier Saeco molds were marked with the mold number on the sprue plate like that. I have seen some without the original sprue plate, and the mold number is hard to confirm then, because the blocks are not marked. They say Saeco, but no mold number.

I'm fairly confident it's a Cramer mold. I have a couple of Lachmiller 3 cavity molds, and the sprue plate setup looks just like the one GP100man pictures. Saeco and Cramer are the only ones I know of with that centered pivot on the sprue plate. Of course it could be custom, but I doubt it.

[Ben]

As to custom, Yes Billy I'm with you ......I'm really beginning to
doubt it. If this one is a custom mold , someone went to great
pains to perfectly clone a mold to look IDENTICAL to a Cramer.

It still strikes me odd that this mold could have left
Cramer or SAECO with no markings ? ?

[BCall]

I just looked over my 2 Cramer molds, and they have the vent lines across the top, but neither of the blocks are marked. So if the sprue plate was ever damaged or replaced, there would be no way to tell what it was, just like the one you have.

I have an unmarked Lachmiller as well, and my Yankee mold has no markings. The Lachmiller has the mold number, but is not marked Lachmiller, although that is what it is.

[Ben]

Gee, about all I can say is I'm glad modern mold makers have decided to put some identification on their molds.

[Suo Gan]

Think shes a Cramer #12. Those are factory vents. Do the Saeco handles work? None of the ones I have tried are interchangeable and take the old thin style Cramer handles. And the sets mostly seem to be one offs or at least semi custom in final fitting, as the handles are usually not interchangeable without mods between sets of blocks. The blocks themselves are never marked, just the sprue plate...but not always, I have owned two without markings. They must have been much more organized than Lyman. They were double the price of Lyman moulds too, at $8 a set with handles (adjusted for inflation, they were more expensive then than they are now though). Made in California like all proper reloading tools ;)

[Ben]

Suo Gan

Do the Saeco handles work?

My SAECO handles you see in the photos above have been thinned to allow them to work with RCBS and Lyman molds. So, I can only say that my particular set of handles fits the mold in question just fine.

Ben

[Char-Gar]

You most certainly have a Cramer #26 mold. Cramer offered both the 26 and 12 at the same time. The 12 had the bottom band and the middle band the same length and the top band much shorter. The 26 looks just like what you have.

Here is a link to a great article by Glen Fryxell on the evolution of various molds for the 38 Special. It is a must read piece of work. Like everything Glen does, it is accurate and well researched.

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=24

I have no idea why the spru plate was not marked. I suspect that at some time, it was replaced with another from Cramer, that was sold as a spare part. These plates were interchangable from mold to mold. I would think, if a fellow bought a spare from Cramer, it would most likely not be marked.

I have a half dozen or so Cramer molds and they are all first rate. I also have a 3 hole SAECO/Cramer #12 which I have been using since 1965. It is my "go to" mold for 38 Special and 357 Mag (plain base). SAECO bought Cramer in 1950 and continued to make the Cramer designs for a number of years before replacing them with their own. Not a good move in my opinion.

The "original" 358477 and the Cramer 26 were indeed very much alike in nose shape, nose length, and body length although the driving band arrangement was different. I suspect the influence of Phil Sharpe was felt in both designs. Over the years, like most all Lyman numbers, 358477 morphed a number of times, pity.

[GP100man]

I think Char-Gar hit it . Early Cramer/Saeco & the sprue plate has been changed to 1 without markings .

Interesting thread on the history of these molds & how the ID marks have changed !!!

[Dennis Eugene]

Another good educational thread. Dennis

[badbob454]

hey Ben check out this might be your mold in a 2 cav.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAECO-CAST-BULLET-MOULD-MOLD-2-CAVITY-357-38CAL-158GR-SWC-382-W-TOP-PUNCH-/200756638522?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebe07333a

[Ben]

No, different than mine.

Mine has no venting on the faces of the mold blocks.
My lube groove seems to be a bit larger also.
The sprue plate shape is different also.
Bullet design is very similar however.