Ballistol Moose milk as a Patch lube... Not any more.

[Boerrancher]

On Sunday, I was going to take my Coyote Bait (Dachshund pup) out and see if I could find a tree rat for her, since squirrel season hasn't officially opened yet, I loaded the 32cal with a moose milk patch made of Ballistol and Distilled water, because I really wasn't planning on shooting it and figured I could leave it loaded a few days if need be. On Tuesday just for the heck of it I decided to run a clean patch down the bore, and this is what it came back looking like.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Tools/RustyPatch.jpg

Now the gun was clean and had been sitting for about a month. I ran a dry patch down it to swab out any oil residue in the bore before I loaded it, and the dry patch came out clean. This was the fist time I have ever used Ballistol and Water Moose Milk as a patch lube, and it will be the last. My spit patches have never done this to a bore when left sitting a few days. I would rather shoot a dry patch after it has sit for a few days, than have one do this to may barrel.

Best wishes,

Joe

[waksupi]

Joe, for hunting patches, I like to use the Dutch Schultz patch method, letting the water dry from the patches before loading. Wet patching is fine for plinking and target shooting, but having a moist patch left in the bore for longer periods of time is a good recipe for a rust ring, and surface rust like you got.

[Swampman]

Olive oil works fine and it's cheap....

[Boerrancher]

Thanks for the advise fellas. I went back to my old reliable first patch load of bear grease. I know it can stay in the bore for years with no ill effects. For any hunting in the past I would always load a grease patch for the first shot, and then use spit patches from then on. Once the gun is fired it must be cleaned, so firing a 5th or 6th shot through it at the end of the hunt to clear the gun makes no difference. If the gun didn't get fired the grease patch load will still be there ready to go 200 years from now if it need wait that long.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Maven]

Joe, I used a Ballistol + water (1:6) yesterday as a patch lube while shooting my May NMLRA postal match target. However, I cleaned the rifle with warm, soapy water when I got home, doused the bore with WD-40, then with WD-40 on a patch, and finished it up with a patch liberally wetted with Liquid Wrench. Ballistol + water is fine as a patch lube, but not a rust inhibitor.

Question: Several years ago auto anti-freeze was often discussed as a patch lube, cleaner, bore preservative because it contains rust inhibitors. Have you ever tried it? Has anyone reading this post tried it? If so, to what effect?

[felix]

Should work fine, Maven. However, I use the production cooling fluids which your local machinists use. Nowadays it's a polymer that won't rust just about anything a typical machine will work on. The flavor I have is dark ocean blue in color. Comes in a 55 gallon drum. Take a 2 liter coke bottle and "borrow" the fluid from one of your locals. ... felix

[Boerrancher]

I have never thought of Antifreeze or production cooling fluids. They won't readily evaporate or dry up, and they inhibit rust. Now the only question is to see if they turn the fouling to concrete in the bore. I have some antifreeze around I will give it a try when I have time in a few days and report back.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Maven]

Joe & Felix, Dutch Schoultz used to recommend cutting fluid (water soluble machining oil) as a patch lube in his "dry patch" system...until the addition of polymers. He now recommends Ballistol: water somewhere between 1:5 - 1:8. As for the anti-freeze, I have some in the garage, but haven't yet tried it as a patch lube (have had success with spit, Ballistol & water, and Stumpy's Moose Snot) or a bore preservative, although I suppose I should. ...Which reminds me, I need to check the anti-freeze reservoir in my Civic!

[wgr]

i would say that the water ,not the ballistol was the reason for the rust. just my dimes worth

[Hanshi]

I always do the same thing in that I make my first load of the day with a grease lube. Hoppes for subsequent shots. I wouldn't even risk leaving a Hoppes patch in the bore for more than a day.

[Boerrancher]

i would say that the water ,not the ballistol was the reason for the rust. just my dimes worth

I am sure it was the water, but I wouldn't have thought that distilled water would have had that effect. I do know that Ballistol has a slightly higher than neutral ph, which makes it a good acid neutralizer i.e. the sulfuric acid from the combustion of black powder. I am wondering if by adding the Ballistol a high ph mixture to Distilled water a neutral ph, if it didn't create a base solution that will oxidize steel just as fast as as an acid will? I am just makeing a WAG here. I don't really know.

Best wishes,

Joe

[451 Pete]

Joe ,

I have to agree with you and several others here that the water left in the bore is causing the rust issue. Several of the rifles I have and shoot are antiques and I have used Ballistol as it comes in the bottle as a rust inhibiter and protectant for storage for these with no problems. ( My first choice for storage is a product called Clenzoil but it is a bit harder to find. )
If you think that you are going to leave the rifle loaded for a period of time you could always run a oiled cleaning patch down the bore after your load and ball has been seated to protect the bore with just a light film of oil.

just my thoughts .... Pete

[felix]

I don't shoot BP enough (always with the kids) to really know. If anti-freeze will not work as expected, try the food grade "anti-freeze" stuff called GoLightly (GoLYTELY), found in drug stores around hospitals. It's the lubrication needed for a quality enema suggested/required by the "snake" doctors before an intestinal scan. It's cheap, too! Ph should be around 7.4 ... felix

[joec]

I posted something here in another tread of something I'm trying to avoid using water or water based cleaning fluids.

Equal parts of Murphy's Oil Soap, Hydrogen Peroxide and Rubbing alcohol all pretty inexpensive as well as easy to find. Then follow it with straight Ballistol or Bore Butter. It seems to cut even pyrodex and avoids the usual having to go back and clean again in a couple of days.

[Swampman]

The fancy homemade mixes are for the birds. Olive oil works great.

Windex or windshield washer fluid is best for cleaning.

[PanaDP]

What made you think that would work OK? You wouldn't put a patch wet with just water down your bore for a few days. Why would you do it with a patch wet with mostly water and a little oil? Just because a liquid has a little lubricity doesn't mean it will inhibit rust (try patching with KY jelly and see what happens )

[runnin lead]

Chicken Man uses Prestone to wipe with between shots for BPCR.
Patches are squeezed out to just damp.
He won The Creedmore Nationals w/ a 45 70 a few years back with this method of wiping
between shots.
I don't know how it would be as a patch lube, works for wiping for fouling control.

[Tatume]

Recently I've been using Ballistol with water as a patch lube for practice shooting. It works well for keeping residue soft for multiple shots. I would not use it for a hunting lube. For that I prefer a grease, such as Mink oil. When I clean guns I finish with Ballistol as a preservative.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Hoppes #9+BP solvent is all i use for patch and cleaning.Its amazing.I can shoot 50 shots in a session with no wiping and the first group is as good as the last.I dont ask for "one hole groups" but get 2" average for multiple 5 shot groups a 50 yards with roundball and iron sights.

I do like Ballistol as a general oil and metal preservative.

George

[FLINTNFIRE]

I use only natural lubes for shooting and for cleaning anything that prevents rust and is a oil ,l when in doubt or trying something new , use it on something not so valued as a barrel , different lubes for different barrel and powders

[ml45]

bear grease traditional i use it for pp and wiping . tried a lot of other stuff . havent found any better.

[sharps4590]

Around here 20-30 years ago the rage was RV anti-freeze mixed 50/50 with denatured alcohol. I guess it worked as good as any other concoctions and I tried it along with most others. I think I still have the 1/2 gal of RV anti-freeze that was left. Maybe I need to by an RV to use it in.

Since those days I'm with FLINTNFIRE, natural lubes mixed with beeswax are about all I use. I don't believe I've ever found anything that was any better. A friend recently gave me a few pounds of rendered bear fat and another friend gave me something like 30 lbs. of beeswax....his brother is a beekeeper. As soon as what I have runs out that will be my next lube.

[Maven]

Lots of substances will suffice as a BP patch and/or conical lube. I substituted safflower oil for the specified castor oil and have had no problems with the resulting concoction at all.

Stumpy's Moose Snot: A premium multi-shot between wiping (10+) patch lube stable over a wide temperature range. SPECIFICALLY designed for use of patched round balls in a loading block

Beeswax 2 oz.
Castor Oil 8 oz. (or similar vegetable oil)
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.


Heat beeswax in a soup can set a pot of water or a double boiler. I keep my beeswax in a one pound coffee can and measure out what I need by melting it and pouring it into measuring cups. Add just enough water so the inner can does not begin to float (should be just short of the lube level in the can). Heat the water to a low boil. In a separate can, add the castor oil and Murphy's oil soap (cold). Once the beeswax is melted, swap the castor oil can in the pot of water for the beeswax. Add the beeswax to the oils. It will clump up. Stir with an ice tea spoon as the mixture heats up. When it fully melts there will be a scum that floats to the top and just won't mix in. Be patient. DO NOT COOK THE MIXTURE. Once the solids are dissolved there is no need to heat further. Skim the scum off. Remove the mix from the heat and wipe the water off the outside (so it won't drip into the container when you pour it out). FINAL TOP SECRET STEP: Add a teaspoon of Murphy's Oil Soap and stir vigorously. This last step makes the lube frothy and smooth - really adds to the appearance; though it doesn't seem to matter to the function of the lube. Clamp the can in the jaws of a vice-grip pliers and pour into the waiting tins. Allow to cool a half hour.

Note: If it is a hinged tin - line the edge that has the hinges with a strip of aluminum foil so it doesn't creep.

[sharps4590]

Maven, Stumpy's was the last batch I mixed up and it's worked just fine, not only as a patch lube but also as a bullet lube for my Kodiak double in 50 cal. I thought I remembered the mix being 50/50 but evidently not.

[Maven]

sharps...., I used it again on Sunday at a woods walk for most of the shots and was really happy with it. Although I wiped the bore between shots, the rifle remained accurate and fairly easy to [re]load. By contrast, last year I used the highly regarded "103 Lube" in the same rifle and found the last rounds shots very difficult to seat. Btw, I generally rub it on both sides of the patch strip with my fingers, roll it up, put it in a container in the microwave for 60 sec., let it cool, then cut it into individual patches with a pinking shears. As I indicated in my post, canola-, olive-or safflower oil can be use in place of castor oil. Stumpkiller agreed: the lube is "oil tolerant."

[waksupi]

The water soluble oil, or cooling oil as some have called it, does seem to resist rusting. I am still using the same gallon I have had for years, using the same mix for patch lube, and drilling. I don't have a speck of rust on my drill vise, or the drill press, so I suspect it acts the same way in a bore, as I have never seen any signs of rust with it.

[sharps4590]

I'm a "patch saturator" too....lol. It's worked well for a long time!

[FRJ]

I use 20/10 wswf for my plinking and target loads and for initial cleaning. For my hunting loads I use TOW mink oil and it can stay in a loaded rifle forever. I like the wswf because it s so cheap and shoots so good. FRJ

[PanaDP]

The water soluble oil, or cooling oil as some have called it, does seem to resist rusting. I am still using the same gallon I have had for years, using the same mix for patch lube, and drilling. I don't have a speck of rust on my drill vise, or the drill press, so I suspect it acts the same way in a bore, as I have never seen any signs of rust with it.


You don't wipe up excess cutting oil after you use your drill press?

[waksupi]

You don't wipe up excess cutting oil after you use your drill press?

Nope. It pretty much evaporates away. And apparently leaves a nice protective coating on the metal, with no build up.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Have been using olive oil & beeswax as patch lube for many years and never been dissapointed. Mix varies depending on temperature. If ball is going to stay awhile I put a dry patch down on the charge followed by patched ball.
Mike in Peru

[Coffeecup]

I've tried lots of different patch lubes, but always come back to neatsfoot oil. It works, and using the same one-component patch lube year-round means I never miss shooting because I don't have the right lube mixed.

Jojoba oil (as a whale-oil analog) works too, but I can't always find it. Neatsfoot oil is as close as the nearest saddlery or most horsemen, and in a pinch I can sometimes get it from the local veterinarian.

[John Boy]

... Shenandoah Valley Lube and Bore Cleaner, the 1st cousin to the famous old Lehigh Valley Lube & Bore Cleaner ... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/561554/muzzle-loader-originals-shenandoah-valley-black-powder-bore-cleaning-solvent-and-patch-lubricant-67-oz-liquid

If Chuck Dixon who owns Dixon's Muzzleloaders and is a top ranked shooter, recommended it ... who was I not to try it and find it works as advertized, plus conditions the bore. The primary ingredient is tall oil, the same as was in Lehigh Valley Lube

[sharps4590]

tall oil? Where does that come from? I always heard good things about Lehigh but never got around to trying it.