Review of .22 LR to .224 swaged bullets with die set from BT Sniper

[DukeInFlorida]

I just received the first .224 die set from BT Sniper! What a work of art. Beautiful workmanship, and quality machining! Well thought out design for everything.

I will take pictures later, but I was so excited that I just had to come up from the shop, and do this write up!!

My target was 55 grain bullets which would be appropriate for shooting in my AR15's. I wanted hollow points, or something close to that. Brian hit it perfectly on the weight, and shape. The resulting bullets are extremely accurate weight wise, have a wonderful profile, and are very concentric to the axis line.

I bought a wire extrusion die from Lafaun, and use 187 grain cast Lee TL style boolits as the raw material for that. I found that if I coated the castings with Xlox thinned out with mineral spirits, it helped the wire flow through the die easily. And, this leaves a slight residual coating of lube on the wire, which eases the later core swage (makes the cores accurate weight) operation. The wire extrudes at .187" diameter, which is perfect for these cores.

I made my own wire chopper, based on the idea of a paper cutter. Two pieces of angle iron, with a pivot, clamped to my bench top. I feed the wire through two holes, to a stop, which gives me a 47.9 grain pre-form.

I run the pre-form into a Lafaun core swage die. Brian is allowing me to use the one he got from Lafaun until he makes me one of his own. I'm getting 46 grain swaged cores.

I'm de-rimming brass on a BT Sniper de-rimming die set. I found that the Federal brass is thicker, and so I am weeding those out, along with any brass that has a deep cut from the gun's firing pin. I am bringing home .22 LR brass from my club, and it's a variety of manufacturers, shot from a variety of guns. The ones that had nicked edges from the firing pins were the ones that seemed to split, crack, and punch through while de-rimming.

After de-rimming, I am annealing by placing the de-rimmed brass pieces on top of 10d (ten penny) plain (not galvanized.... the zinc would be poisonous) finish nails. I have a row of thirty nails. I can go down the row with a hand held propane torch pretty fast, stopping at each one until it glows. I tried MAPP gas, but found that it was too hot, melting the brass sides. Propane is perfect for my needs, and the priocess moves along quickly. I dump the brass from the board onto a metal tray for cooling.

The next operation is to seat the cores in the annealed brass. A touch of swage lube makes that job amazingly easy. Once I have the cores seated, I set up the point form die.

The point form die will handle any weight of bullet. Anything less than 55 grains will require trimming the brass. Anything over that weight will have an exposed lead tip, but it's all possible in this die.

The actual pressure to form the point can be achieved by pushing on the press arm with two fingers (my thumb and index finger). I have the die set so that at the full mechanical stop of the press the bullet is perfectly formed. The resulting bullets are slightly hollow pointed, and the base bottom is flat, with slight curvature on the edges. The form is very precise, and repeatable. The bullets eject with the automatic ejector with almost no force whatsoever. With some practice, I am sure I could easily exceed BT Snipers production rate in his video.

I have some sample parts cleaning as I type this. I will post images soon, and even show you some of the sample parts that Brian sent along with the die set.

Needless to say, I am very impressed and very happy!

This is a die set that is above Corbin's quality. I've never seen a Blackmon die set in person, so I can't compare this set to that. But I have seen a Corbin set in person, and this is nicer.

Pictures will follow.

P.S. I will have samples available for people to take a look at as soon as I get enough cores made, etc.... So far, it was small qtys of everything.

[BT Sniper]

WOW! I have felt like an expectant father waiting to hear about the delivery of his first child :) ever since I sent Duke this first set of 22 cal dies. I'm glad to hear things are going smoothly.

I know I had atleast 7 attempted proto types before I achieved the level of perfection I obtained in Duke's set of dies. With sucessful customer imput and continueous slight design improvments (if even needed, they are pretty good now I think :) ) I am confident in the ability of these dies and the bullets they make as well as the ability of the avarage reloader to achieve success with these dies.

Good shooting, keep us posted and SWAGE ON!

Brian

[gvanzeggelaar]

So what is the eta on mine. :D

[ratboy]

this thread is useless without pics.

:)

[DukeInFlorida]

http://www.sebagosales.com/swagedbullets/btsniperdies.jpg

There are three groups here.

Front Left: This is a group of samples that came from BT Sniper as he was setting up my dies, just prior to shipping. Notice the highly polished finish. They are well made, and very clean, shiny, and nice. Tight noses.
Front Right: This is a sample set that BT Sniper shipped with the die set. These aren't quite as bright and shiny as the first set, but I understand how he gets them so bright, and am working on duplicating his system. I'm sworn to secrecy.
Back Row: These are all bullets that I swaged in about ten minutes while setting the die set up to try them. The ones on the right were run last, and have a slightly tighter nose. The ones on the left are more open at the nose, and are a distinct hollow point. The ones on the left are similar to what I have seen from Corbin dies. The ones on the right are way beyond what corbin is able to do.


BT Sniper has previously video taped this exact die set in operation. And, has shown images of the dies.

As I said earlier, I will make samples available to folks as soon as I get some raw materials set and ready to go.

This swaging is very different than the 9>.40 or the .40> .44 sets. Virtually no pressures involved, and much more precise and refined.

[DukeInFlorida]

BTW, borrowing the images from BT Sniper's other post, here is my core seat die and swage die, and the accompanying base punches:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070318.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070320.jpg

And, the video of my dies in operation is here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=152541

[sffar]

Pretty cool, Duke! Will you show these off this weekend?
Sam

[Utah Shooter]

These aren't quite as bright and shiny as the first set, but I understand how he gets them so bright, and am working on duplicating his system. I'm sworn to secrecy.

Dang those are very shiney and no line down at the base. I thought he said something about using mineral spirits?

[BT Sniper]

Looks great Duke. I'll tell you the same thing I tell all my customers........ The bullets look even better loaded :)

Good Shooting

BT

[ratboy]

Duke,
what press are you using these dies in?

[mdenz3]

BT, we really need to get you to make .224 dies for Aneat's press.

[BT Sniper]

No problem but a smaller press will allow better control when making these small bullets. Everyone should have even the simplest of reloading presses in which these dies would work just fine in.

Even Corbin mentions that the big swage press is not needed and better results can be obtained from a simple reloading press using 22 cal dies like this. I read that on his sight or in one of his books somewhere. Why do you want to use such a big press to make these small bullets?

I use simple RCBS Supreme or Lee Classic Cast press for making these bullets. The only part of the entire 22 cal process that needs any pressure at all is the derim process and even that is not that difficult on a standard reloading press.

BT

[runfiverun]

i de-rim on my hornady,and core swage/point form on my little a-2.
i use the rock chucker for the one step 44's.

[DukeInFlorida]

Yes, Sam, I will bring some samples. There won't be any time to set up and demo the process though.


Pretty cool, Duke! Will you show these off this weekend?
Sam

I'm using a clunky 20 year old RCBS Rockchucker press that I use for all my swaging.


Duke,
what press are you using these dies in?

I can't wait to get some loaded. Thanks again, Brian.


Looks great Duke. I'll tell you the same thing I tell all my customers........ The bullets look even better loaded :)

Good Shooting

BT

[Lizard333]

For bright and shinny pills, I add them to my SS tumbler with dish soap and Lemi shine. Purtiest things I have ever seen. Only takes an hour.

[TJF1]

Those look great duke.

[Blammer]

Sweet! I am envious!

[Jailer]

Brian, are you going to offer these with a base punch for a standard shell holder or is the threaded base punch the only option?

I've been wanting a set of 224 swage dies for some time now. What's your production schedule and delivery time look like for this die set?

Great product, keep up the good work! :drinks:

[BT Sniper]

Base punch is availble for standard shell holder, 1/2-20 tpi threaded rams and RCE 7/8-14 threaded ram. I can not do Corbin's 5/8-24 threads yet.

Here is some for standard shell holders.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070310.jpg

I will be happy to take orders at this time and any time. I expect about 2 months for delivery of the next sets of 22 cal dies. It will be worth the short wait. As many of you know I will always error on side of quality should I encounter any delays. Let me kow if you want to make 6s ogive bullets like Duke has pictured or 9s ogives. Typically the 6s ogive feeds better in the semi autos from what I hear.

I'll be able to supply derim dies much sooner to get everyone started on the process.

Feel free to send me PM's for additonal info. I'll be happy to put as many of these 22 cal package sets together for all that want one.

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

Anyone getting serious about "precision swaging" on a reloading press should ask BRian to make a THREADED ram. They're not all that expensive. And, because there's no way for the punch to move in a slot, there's never any risk of a punch crash into the edge of the die. I had that happen previously with a 9>40 die, and immediately went to the threaded ram which Brian made for my Rockchucker press. Solidly made, and nice fit and finish.

Ogive chart here:
http://rceco.com/img/RSBook12.pdf

The 6S works great in my AR, and is easier to reproduce.

[gandog56]

I know nothing of what the actual process is. What supplies do you need to make these bullets? What the heck is a threaded ram? I could really use my Lee Challenger press to make these?

[DukeInFlorida]

Gandog, welcome to the Castboolits site. I know you from the ammo brass trader sister site.
ill do my best to walk you through the process. I would first ask that you read through most of the stickies, even though they might not apply to .22 caliber bullets. The stickie posts all relate to swage process, and discuss the tools used. They are common in style, albeit different in size.

Having said that, yes, you can do this staging on a Lee Classic press. I much prefer the RCBS Rockchucker (old style) with an extended handle. Makes life a lot easier, and the press is made to take the extra pressures. If you look through the stickies, you will find videos of BT Sniper making swaged bullets using a LEE Classic press.

THe standard ram for a Rockchucker press uses a T slot for installing she'll holders. That system isnt perfect for installing the bottom punches for the swaging process. So, I had a custom ram made with the top threaded in 1/2-20 thread. The bottom punches come also threaded hat way, so the connection is solid.

Read all through the earlier part of this post, and you will see the sequence for how the .22 caliber bullets are processed. I have made several tens of thousands of these. They all shoot sub MOA.

[fredj338]

BT does great work/ I have a set from about 4yrs ago, only made about 1000 bullets on them but easy to use & get decent results straight away. Enjoy!

[HtNRun]

BT's Simple set, that he now offers is great! At $0.10 a point, I've already paid this set off. It's worth the small investment if you shoot very much.

That being said, I really like the control I have with my little hand press, which does me fine.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170529/f3db36201771968ad9672f295f412f23.jpg

The derim process is the only step that you need a little oomph, but since it's easier to use this set up "upside down" I put one edge on a carpet covered board and give it the push. It's easier to feed the other steps upside down as well, and you can really get the feel for the "correct" seating resistance of the cores.

I think the best cosmetic results are achieved with a good stainless steel tumble for about 2 hours.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170529/759cb0a3bd07fd9e2094681594f5e35c.jpg

The results and quality match any store bought points:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170529/3d9d214265981dd2d57d5d3435559f52.jpg

And look just as good:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170529/ee806b16eec9543b5d03543af8e6000d.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170529/fdc71b1f9fe360d8e271415ada9eff5c.jpg

Good luck! And hope you find what works for you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rancher1913]

Are you guys using a canalour or just loading as is

[BT Sniper]

I have always loaded as is with the 22 cal, but haven't shot it much in the AR platform.

BT

[HtNRun]

Haven't built/bought a canulere tool yet. Only had three get pushed in so far, and I prob have 1500 shot through my AR. I think I'm loading them a touch to short on oal tho, I'm going to play around and see if I can get that performing better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BlackoutBuilder]

Im about to get my BT Simple set, and am so excited I'm antsy about it. I also plan on getting the ultimate cannelure tool 2 in the fall.

[rancher1913]

the bt simple dies are great, the only thing I don't like is derimming, hard on my shoulder because my press sets pretty high, hopefully brian will have a sale on the pneumatic tools one of these days.

[BT Sniper]

Just sold two pneumatic presses on eBay for around $500 each. It does make deriming easier.

The two step process with the newly designed derim die should make it a lot easier for you guys to derim.

BT

[rancher1913]

Sent you a pm

[DukeInFlorida]

Brian, what size pneumatic cylinder did you use on those?



Just sold two pneumatic presses on eBay for around $500 each. It does make deriming easier.

The two step process with the newly designed derim die should make it a lot easier for you guys to derim.

BT

[BT Sniper]

It was short and fat :)

[DukeInFlorida]

hahaha Short and fat doesn't give me what I need.

The cylinders are rated in inches of diameter, and length of stroke.
For example, 5" 2.75"

That would be a 5 " diameter pneumatic piston diameter, and a stroke length of 2.75"

Can you advise what you like to use?

I'm wanting to upgrade my derimming press, which currently uses a 3" diameter cylinder. It has enough oomph at 90-125 psi to derim, but not enough oomph to resize my 5.7X28 FN brass as part of my 30 cal bullet production.

I know how to deal with stroke length, but need some clue as to diameter needed.

[BlackoutBuilder]

Bigger is better :-P