new 38-55 project

[mdevlin53]

Here is my newest project. When I bought this rifle the seller said it was a 9.3x62r and I was ok with that. After casting the chamber the specs were just a bit off and looking through the COTW book I could not see a match anywhere. The caption for the 9.3x62r it was very close to the 38-55 so I looked at it and it was a match. I have no idea whether it was originally made for that cartridge or an alteration of the chamber was made later. This rifle is after the 1871 Mauser pattern but without proof marks. The 38-55 came out around 1884 so it is just possible the rifle was chambered for it. It has double set triggers and a lot of fancy work. It never had a barrel mounted rear sight just the receiver square in the tang for an aperture sight. Sadly it is not original and looks to be the Mortimer sight that DGW sells. I had to add about 5/8th of an inch of ¼” key stock to the shank to have it set securely in the tang receiver. The front sight is original and has a very fine post it should do well with the rear.
I got my brass and bullets today and I will work up two starting loads one with BP and one with 3031. I picked up some .375 250gn 20-1 hand cast bullets from BA. I am thinking of starting with 25 gr of 3031for the smokeless load and a full case of Goex minus whatever I need for the boollit to seat with about an 1/8th inch of compression, and we shall see how she shoots.
ps i didn't forget the pictures this time.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_237434fb2e8631945a.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5236)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_237434fb2e88a4980f.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5237)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_237434fb2e89cc3c5b.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5238)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_237434fb2e8b29e542.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5239)

[405]

With the more complete pic- kinda looks like a cross between a sporting rifle and a Schuetzen long range- given the caliber. But I surely don't know. Very nice looking gun in any case.

As far as shooting I'd think the 20:1 alloy 250 gr sized to .375 over BP may be OK. Might help to add a hard card wad (.030" or .060") on top of the powder though. No guarantees, only the target will tell.

Now, with the smokeless loads. No idea. If your groove diameter is something like .377-.380 I doubt it will work very well. Might lead and might be unstable or both. But the target and bore will tell.

[excess650]

The 38-50 Ballard cartridge predates the 38-55 by about 10 years. I recall that its just a bit shorter.

I have a '71 that has been sporterized complete with DST, checkered PG stock with raised side panels, and horn schnable, but mine is still 11mm.

[mdevlin53]

The groove is right at. 375 so i might be ok with the soft lead boolit. As i said i am not sure of how this rifle ended up with a 38-55 chamber but as you said the targets will tell the story
Ui

[bbqncigars]

A very nice rifle. I wouldn't shoot very energetic loads in that if your shoulder doesn't fit the butt plate well.


Wayne

[enfield]

I'de like to see a few pic's of the rear site. trying to think of something for the 71/84 mauser sporter to use for a peep site, does it get in the way when the bolt is opened ? thanks.

[excess650]

The groove is right at. 375 so i might be ok with the soft lead boolit. As i said i am not sure of how this rifle ended up with a 38-55 chamber but as you said the targets will tell the story
Ui

What is the twist?

[405]

The groove is right at. 375 so i might be ok with the soft lead boolit. As i said i am not sure of how this rifle ended up with a 38-55 chamber but as you said the targets will tell the story
Ui

.375 groove! You don't know how lucky you are. That is the plague faced by many trying to get old Winchesters in 38-55 to shoot well- skinny chamber and fat bore. I have two of them and both required a bunch of juggling and compromise to get them to shoot well. Yes, your bullet diameter should be fine. You might start to notice difficulty chambering after firing a shot or two with BP as the fouling starts to build. With the smokeless loads that won't be a problem but my experience with plain base soft cast and smokeless is not real peachy. The gas check solves a couple of problems when using smokeless... even with light, low pressure charges.

[mdevlin53]

Thanks for all the comments, First i have yet to figure out how to determine twist rate.
The rear site will get in the way if you want to remove the bolt completly but it is fine fro chambering the case and de-chambering. I usually remove the bolt when i clean so it will be an issue each time i shoot to re-zero the sight. I am going to scribe the square stock after i get the elevation set so at least i can be close after remounting.

As for fouling i always bring a brush and a bore mop treated with a black powder lube and clean every three shots to keep the fouling down. if it is shooting clean i make the brush and mop frequency more.

I have a few of these old guns and i keep the loads to moderate levels for safety sake so i'll let you know how the butt plate feels on the range report.

[mdevlin53]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_237434fb43a7b9ad94.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5261)

Here is the sight picture. As you can see the tang has the reciever for the sight as an integral part. the sight itself is from dixie gun works (http://http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=7542) this link should take you right to it.
I am not sure how this would work out on an M71
Michael

[mdevlin53]

I went to the range and the results are mixed. The rifle functioned flawlessly. The gun took a bit of getting used to as the drop at the stock is much greater than anything I have ever shot before. Once I raised up my shooting rig it worked out much better. This is more than I can say for the sights. I need to work on figuring them out. Fist time with a tang aperture and it gave me some trouble. I will have to do some mor reading on these sights,The loads were mixed as well the mild charge of 3031 was a bust I put a few on the paper at 25 yds and then switched to 50yds and they barely hit the bottom of the target. The bp rounds seemed to be much better and I was able to put my last 5 shots in a somewhat respectable group.The orange target is the BP and the B&W is the smokless. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_237434fb97cb057b2b.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5316)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_237434fb97cc608841.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5318)

[TCTex]

Sweeeeet!

It looks like you are making progress!

[Good Cheer]

Are you getting elongated holes on target?

[mdevlin53]

When you look at the actual target the holes are straight on not as clean as wadcutters but they are not tumbeling if thats what our asking.

[mdevlin53]

Using the excess650 ( tight pach and mark the rod) method the twist is 1 in 16. That worked like a champ so simple dont know how i didn't think of it, I guess i thought it would involve buying some new expensive one use only tool for the job.

[405]

Well, that twist is fine for most bullets you'll want to shoot. I don't know which bullet you are trying to shoot in it but I know in both my 38-55s the RCBS 37-250-FN GC is the bullet. I also don't think the hardness of the bullet will make or break the potential in your rifle at normal 38-55 velocities and pressures with smokeless- especially if you are trying to use a plain base bullet. The key to assured accuracy is going to be using a gas check with suitable smokeless powders at NORMAL 38-55 velocities (1150-1400 fps). I load the RCBS bullet sized to +/- groove diameter in my guns, cast with alloy of about 14-15 BHN over 17 gr 5744 with dacron filler for velocity of 1310 fps with a velocity SD of 6 and get .5-.6" circular cluster groups at 50 yards. Both my guns are original Winchester 1894s dating to 1895 and 1899.

[Hiwall55]

I shoot 20-1 and a lyman 330 gr. bullet in my H&R 38/55with 20.5 gr. IMR4227.no leading and will kill steel Rams all day at 300yds.you got lucky if your gun slugs .375 mine was tight chamber and .380 bore .I had to bore my mold out to.381 and the groups shrank considerably mine now shoots 4 inch groups at 200 yds.Good luck

[mdevlin53]

I know i'm talking treason here but i am out of Boolits and am waiting for a delivery. Yes i buy store bought stuff mostly from Buffalo arms but i just got into reloading and all that equipment(and i still need to get a tumbler) has set me back a bit i will look into casting equipment down the road a bit. For now i am going to take your advice and look at the 4227 load for the smokeless and give that a try but right now BP has the initial edge so i will make up two batches and put them head to head again and see which one comes up with the better groups.