Why are .44 rifle bores oversize?

[fatelk]

I've been curious about this, since I've been tinkering with my Marlin 1894. All the info I can find indicates that the standard bore diameter for .44 Magnum rifles is larger than for .44 Magnum revolvers. I think one source indicated that it was intentional to "keep the pressure down".

Wouldn't a rifle typically be stronger than a revolver? My bore slugs at just a hair under .430", so I must have a small one but it's also junk because of the huge dents in the bore from the rollstamp.

Is there any pressure danger from having a custom barrel installed with a .429 or .430 barrel? I originally had the naive goal of a good stout load that would work well in both revolver and rifle, as I'm not one who really enjoys tinkering and customizing individual loads to individual guns.

On a side note, I've wondered about ID issues with a custom barrel. A gunsmith acquaintance told me he could put a "real" barrel on it and make it shoot right. No, I'm not going to spend the money for a custom target barrel, but I did notice that the receiver itself has no markings at all besides the serial number. I wonder about any legal implications of an unmarked custom barrel.

[6pt-sika]

Might I suggest you cast some bullets size them at .432" and try them in the rifle before you go to the trouble or replacing or lapping the barrel .

Since I never saw any reason to water quench the WW alloy bullets I cast for the 44 cal rifles or pistols I shot the same sized diameter in both with no problems .

[fatelk]

I have some larger diameter bullets but haven't had the time to try them yet. I don't have high hopes due to the rollstamp damage. If I slug the bore but tap the slug back out the muzzle (not past the wrinkles) it measures .4298". If I slug it past the wrinkles, the slug measures .4298x.4275. The wrinkles cover two grooves and look as tall as the lands.

I already have another thread about this, just started this one because I was curious about .44 rifle bore diameter in general.

I also have another barrel on the way to try (thanks Ziptar), but I will try the larger bullets before swapping barrels.

[btroj]

Try a .432 or so bullet and see how it shoots. Might just suprise you.
I would try fire lapping before getting into a new barrel. New barrel isn't going to be cheap.
I have found over the years that sometimes things that aren't supposed to work still do .

As for legal ramifications of a replacement barrel, there are none. Just be sure to use a smith who knows what he is doing. If I was spending the money to replace a barrel I would make surer got a good barrel, not just the cheapest I could find.


As for bore dimensions, there is ideal and there is reality. Ideally a 44 uses a .429 bore bit in reality they tend to run from .429 to .433 or so. Marlins frequently go on the larger size. My feeling if so what? If I have bullets that for the larger bee and shoot well then why do I care? It works, so I leave it alone.

Go shoot different size bullets in your rifle. Test some different loads. It may well amaze you and shoot better than you expect.

[725]

I have a Win Trapper in .44 mag and have suffered the same problem of oversized bore. It slugged huge and wouldn't shoot anything accurately. Factory, jacketed reloads of several various recipes, cast of many recipes, nothing. I was so put off by it, I put it in the safe for several years. Saved my pennies and had a new .429 barrel cut and contoured, changed it to a 20", no dovetails, screwed ramp front sight, no rear sight, and a Williams peep sight on the receiver. Shoots like a house-a-fire now. Foolish to spend so much on a Winchester Trapper, but it's what I wanted. Now it is a treasure.

[303british.com]

I have a Model 92 and wondered why the bore was larger. edler7 posted that the rifle and handgun bore specs are different. In a nutshell, the handgun bores are .429 and the rifle bores are .432. He was nice enough to provide a link. You can check the chamber specs here:

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm

It would be interesting to discover why they differ. It's not an old cartridge, shot from firearms with wildly differing dimensions.

[fatelk]

Those SAAMI specs are interesting. The official specs are indeed different for the same cartridge depending on rifle or revolver. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that a revolver has a cylinder gap that vents some pressure.

Thank you for the info about your custom barrel, 725. That's exactly what my gunsmith friend told me I should do with it, but then again all he does is build high-dollar target rifles, and I don't think I could afford one of his barrels. Have you noticed any kind of pressure issue with it?

You all have convinced me I need to take this thing out one more time soon and try these .432 bullets. Maybe this weekend.

[6pt-sika]

Sounds as if you've not shot the gun a whole lot yet and have already condemned it . Your gunsmith (IMHO) is telling you to rebarrel it because it'll put money in his pocket . Remmember lever action rifles are not typically manufactured to be SUB MOA rifles . If you can get this rifle to shoot an inch or less at 50 yards and 2" or less at 100 yards be happy thats about all they made them for and to be honest that fits the criteria of a good many manufacturers bolt action rifles .

While I kinda understand your reasoning , it's NOT the way I'd go . If I were you I'd try some .432" bullets and see how it shoots at 50 and 100 yards . If it didn't satisfy me I might lap the bore a bit to try and remove some of the indentations from the roll stamp . But on the other hand more then likely I'd trade the rifle off or sell it to someone .

I've not fired a new Marlin now in about 4 years . But I used to get new ones each year and never had any problems that you speak of .

[303british.com]

Those SAAMI specs are interesting. The official specs are indeed different for the same cartridge depending on rifle or revolver. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that a revolver has a cylinder gap that vents some pressure.

You all have convinced me I need to take this thing out one more time soon and try these .432 bullets. Maybe this weekend.

It could be the cylinder gap was the reason for the difference. I suppose if someone wrote SAAMI and asked, they might provide an answer.

.432 bullets shoot well from my Rossi. There's no reason to think that they won't do well in your Marlin.

[725]

fatelk,
Nope. No pressure issues at all. As you can see by the various responses, some want to shoot "fatter" boolits, some accept OK accuracy, your smith wants a new barrel, and I'm sure there might be other responses to come. Hey, whatever winds your clock. I wanted a rifle I could count on, that would shoot with a high degree of accuracy, and would perform with the most common types of ammo / boolits. I spent the money, got what I wanted and the area deer fear me. It's a joy to shoot and carry in the woods. What's not to like? Good luck in your pursuit.

[junkbug]

IF you are looking for loads that work in a rifle and carbine, I would start with a 240 gr jacketed soft point, or jacketed hollow point. Just work up some starting loads for each, with several powder types and see where it goes.

Many people have experienced frustration over trying to find a handgun/carbine works-in-both load. This is true with both Marlin, Winchester, and Ruger carbines in 44 mag with anyy number of revolvers, and with Winchesters and Marlins in .357mag, and various revolvers also.

It can be done, but it is by no means easy. Switching barrels before you work through with what you have may give you what you want, or be money down the drain. I wish you the best.

I tried this with a Marlin 44mag, and a Ruger 44mag semi-auto carbine before that. The revolver was a Ruger Redhawk. All were good guns. Results were usable, but lack-luster. Also, I did not know then (at least 15 years ago) what I know now. So I lost interest. Best wishes, and good luck.

[fatelk]

I wasn't really intending to start another thread troubleshooting this rifle, but I do appreciate the input. I had another thread recently that went into my troubles with this thing in depth.

The short version is that it was made in '79. My dad bought it in the late '80s. I've messed with it off-and-on for many years, jacketed and cast of all types, with miserable accuracy (6-8" @100yds). Honestly, I never tried bullets as big as .432, but the bore slugs at slightly under .430" and the borestamp wrinkle is pretty bad.

A member here that is local to me loaned me a couple molds and I cast some nice 240gr .432 bullets from WW lead, and just for the heck of it I also made a few from pure lino that are a bit fatter. I will try them when I get time. I really hope they shoot good and I have to post about it and eat crow :) but considering my 25 years of experience with this rifle I don't have very high hopes. Another member here is sending me a used take-off barrel (converted his to .45 Colt) for just the cost of shipping. There are some awesome folks here!

725, it may not be "worth it" to put a custom barrel on an old Winchester, but it sure sounds like it was worth it to you. The idea does appeal to me if nothing else works. The gunsmith who recommended it was a guy I used to work for. He's one of the top riflesmiths in the country and at the time would have done it for just the cost of the barrel. I think his only motivation was that he only likes very accurate rifles. He's very busy nowadays, so it may take me quite a while to have any barrel work done, including installing this take-off barrel.

[Char-Gar]

Putting a new barrel on a rifle to fix an issue that can be cured otherwise, is a very expensive proposition.

I have a Marlin and a Ruger OM SBH that shoot the same load very well. The trick is to have a sixgun that likes the same size bullets as he rifle. The Marlin likes .432 bullets and the SBH has .432 cylinder throats...problem solved.

It would be far cheaper to obtain a new cylinder for a sixgun and have the throats reamed to the size your rifles likes, if you don't already have a sixgun that works well. I don't know what kind of sixgun you have, but you could have Ruger fit a new cylinder for a very reasonable price. You can also pick up cylinders on ebay for a good price.

[fatelk]

Putting a new barrel on a rifle to fix an issue that can be cured otherwise, is a very expensive proposition.
If these larger bullets don't do the trick, what could be done for a barrel with big dents in the bore, besides replace it? I tried some hand lapping, but gave up pretty quick when I realized that the bore would be wallowed out before I got very far on polishing the wrinkles out. They take up two grooves and are as tall as the lands. I just don't see how any barrel could shoot well with this kind of damage. I will give it one more try, and would be glad to admit it if I'm wrong.

[Char-Gar]

If these larger bullets don't do the trick, what could be done for a barrel with big dents in the bore, besides replace it? I tried some hand lapping, but gave up pretty quick when I realized that the bore would be wallowed out before I got very far on polishing the wrinkles out. They take up two grooves and are as tall as the lands. I just don't see how any barrel could shoot well with this kind of damage. I will give it one more try, and would be glad to admit it if I'm wrong.

I have never seen a rifle barrel with "big dents" or "wrinkles", so I can't relate to that. Most problems getting accuracy from a Marlin 1894 44 Magnum rifle with Microgroove rifling comes from either one of two sources.

1. Bullets to small
2. Barrel twist if 1-38, which can cause real issues with bullet weight/length and velocity. This hyper slow twist can't be ignored and must be delt with.

I have a Marlin 1894 in 44 Magnum of about the same vintage as yours and it performs like a show pony with cast bullets. BUT..to do so requires and understanding of the rifle. The old 44-40 lever guns, used a bullet of about 200 grains going 1.2 or 1.3K fps and had a 1-38 twist. Marlin just lifted this twist from the history books and used it for their 44 Magnum rifles. Load the 44 Magnum with cast gas check bullets of 200 - 230 grains, sized .432, with a MV of 1.2 - 1.3K fps and watch your rifle shine.

Many folks report great results with heaver bullets and faster speeds, but I had not had much luck with that. My rifle loaded as above will produce 2 MOA or less accuracy, is easy on the shoulder and will kill anything I point it at down here in deep South Texas. That is all I ask the rifle to do. I don't ask it to do things that are not in it's nature.

I don't know what your gunsmith charges but a high quality barrel fitted to your rifle by a man who knows what he is doing, will run you $500 to 700 dollars. Some folks may do it cheaper, but I would be wary of a man who doesn't value his time or skills. You tend to get what you pay for.

[Dan Cash]

If these larger bullets don't do the trick, what could be done for a barrel with big dents in the bore, besides replace it? I tried some hand lapping, but gave up pretty quick when I realized that the bore would be wallowed out before I got very far on polishing the wrinkles out. They take up two grooves and are as tall as the lands. I just don't see how any barrel could shoot well with this kind of damage. I will give it one more try, and would be glad to admit it if I'm wrong.

Contact John Taylor (member of this forum) regarding a barrel liner. He could instal one which would clean up the roll mark damage and perhaps provide a liner in the bore/groove diameter you want. Way cheaper than new barrel.

[6pt-sika]

Barrel twist if 1-38, which can cause real issues with bullet weight/length and velocity. This hyper slow twist can't be ignored and must be delt with.

I have a Marlin 1894 in 44 Magnum of about the same vintage as yours and it performs like a show pony with cast bullets. BUT..to do so requires and understanding of the rifle. The old 44-40 lever guns, used a bullet of about 200 grains going 1.2 or 1.3K fps and had a 1-38 twist. Marlin just lifted this twist from the history books and used it for their 44 Magnum rifles. Load the 44 Magnum with cast gas check bullets of 200 - 230 grains, sized .432, with a MV of 1.2 - 1.3K fps and watch your rifle shine.

Many folks report great results with heaver bullets and faster speeds, but I had not had much luck with that.


Hmmm , I must be ONE of the "many folks" . I have a circa 1967 Marlin 336-44 with the 1-38 Micro barrel . And mine shot bullets up to 325 grains with very good to acceptable accuracy . Granted the 325's were just starting to yaw a bit when they hit the target at 100 yards .

But I've had very nice results in my rifle with the Ranch Dog 432-240GC , Ranch Dog 432-265GC and Ranch Dog 432-300GC as well as my version of the Ranch Dog from Mountain Molds thats 432-325GC .

Granted the rifle I'm using is on a 336 Marlin action rather then a Model 1894 Marlin . But this is the second of these rifles I've owned and both shot up to 300 grains very well (didn't have the 325'r when I had the first 336-44). I also might add Ranch Dog himself has a copy of the 336-44 as well and I don't remmember him ever telling me he had any such problems when working up loads in his rifle .

[btroj]

Have you actually shot the gun? How did it shoot?
I worry far less about the measurement on a slug than I do the one on the target.
It is far easier , and cheaper, to shoot a bigger bullet than to rebarrel.
As for the roll marking leaving a "dent" or whatever, the bullets may not care.

Did I mention this already? Go shoot it.

Stop reading and measuring and go shoot it.

[fatelk]

Contact John Taylor (member of this forum) regarding a barrel liner. He could instal one which would clean up the roll mark damage and perhaps provide a liner in the bore/groove diameter you want. Way cheaper than new barrel.
That sounds like a great idea. I'll have to look into that.


Have you actually shot the gun? How did it shoot?
I think you might have missed my post where I mentioned that I have shot many hundreds of rounds through it over the last quarter century.:)

[725]

fatelk,
Wow. If you can see the roll stamps on the inside, I'd say your problems start there. Barrel liner is a great suggestion. Aggressive firelapping would be my first step towards a correction. It's cheap and easy as they come. Heck, I wouldn't even have a dovetail cut in my barrel and you can see roll stampings. Holy cow.

[longbow]

I'll put in another vote for fat boolits. My 1894 slugs at 0.4315" groove and shoots boolits over 0.432" quite well now. It seems to really like 0.433"/0.434".

I had not heard of the tight spots in Marlin barrels until about 3 years ago. I think the comment I heard was "tight spots under the dovetails". I never thought about the roll stamp but that seems like an obvious source too. I slugged mine specifically to check for tight spots because it was leading even with fat boolits. Accuracy was pretty good but it did lead.

Sure enough, I found 3 or 4 noticeable "snug" spots so decided I had had enough and hand lapped to remove them. I was a bit apprehensive because it is a microgroove barrel so not much rifling to begin with. I figured if I ruined the barrel I would just replace it anyway.

Well, the hand lapping removed the tight spots and smoothed up the barrel, leading stopped pretty much totally (I shoot primarily PB boolits) and accuracy improved dramatically.

So, try some fat boolits at least 0.001" over groove and preferably larger. If that doesn't fix it then maybe some firelapping or hand lapping will. If you plan to replace the barrel you have nothing to lose by trying.

Good luck!

Longbow

[bones37]

My experience mirrors that of Char-Gar. I too used the 44/40 in reference for my Marlin, same velocity range and boolit weights/lengths. I had my mold modified to cast a .433 boolit.

[Nobade]

That's not uncommon about the rollmarks. I firelapped my 1895CB and you can sort of read the rollmarks on the inside with the borescope now, the lapping hit the high spots and removed the bluing there.

On the subject of the 44 mag, I have learned that all my pistol caliber leverguns shoot better with black powder than they do with smokeless. I suspect this is because the BP upsets the boolit to fill the throat and grooves. I am still trying to find a really accurate load in the 44 with smokeless, I have some that are decent, maybe 2 MOA, but the BP loads will beat that every time. And if I duplex load it with a couple of grains of 4227 next to the primer it even shoots boolits made for smokeless with small lube grooves without fouling building up.

[fatelk]

I wish I could get a clear photo of the bore. Here is one of the outside. The M in "MOD." is the big offender. It looks like someone smacked it with a sledgehammer, and there is a corresponding bulge on the inside at that exact spot. For comparison, look at the M in Marlin above it.

I tried to carefully hand lap it, following some instructions I found here. The plug with fine embedded grinding compound would slide through the bore fine until it got to the wrinkle or bulge, where I had to tap it through with a hammer every time. I think it would be just about impossible to polish it out. Bore slugs would come out measuring about .430 by .427. I think that any method that would polish out nearly .003" of bulge would wallow out the whole barrel.

If I was really talented and clever, maybe I could make a reamer of some kind that would ride in the grooves, but with a tiny cutting edge in each of the two grooves with the bulges. These cutters would be adjusted to precisely ride in the grooves until they came to the obstructions, and take a little off each time. That would be the only way I could see to fix it if it absolutely had to be fixed, but I think something like that is way beyond my level of skill.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm274/fatelk/1894007.jpg

[fatelk]

Load the 44 Magnum with cast gas check bullets of 200 - 230 grains, sized .432, with a MV of 1.2 - 1.3K fps and watch your rifle shine.
I hear what you're saying and can appreciate it, but it's not really my thing. To me it's like being told my sports car will do great as long as I keep it under 65. If this rifle will only shoot reasonably accurate with mid-range loads and light bullets, then to me it's a poorly engineered piece of junk, and I need to sell it to someone who better appreciates it's capabilities. What I really want is a rifle that will even shoot factory ammo reasonably well (within 4 moa anyhow).

I really don't mean that in a rude or negative way. If that's what works well for you in your rifle and that's what you want, then all is well. In fact I will try working up a load like that just to see if I can get it to shoot better than 6 to 8 moa with anything at all.

What the heck were the Marlin engineers thinking (smoking)?!? It sounds like someone without a clue was making important design decisions. Not only the ridiculous twist rate, but letting a defect like that get out the door is inexcusable.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I had always thought the Marlin barrels were loose and I will conceed that they have an unnecessarily slow twist rate. I pulled up the SAMMI specs for .44 magnum and found that the standard groove dia is .431.

Marlin told me right after I bought my gun and experienced abismal accuracy that the call out in the shop was .431 +/-.002.

Mine is .431 so technically it is right on.

Here's a thought.

I have read and re read Brian Pearces article in Aug 2007 Handloader on the .45-70 in M1895 Marlin Rifles and he states that action is good for loads up to 43,500 psi. The action will probably take more but a steady diet of 43K loads is about all it is good for.

Now think about this. The 336-1895 action is stronger than the 1894 action due to the closed rear section of the receiver. So it would follow that the 1894 action is not up to a steady diet of 40K psi loads.

The .44 magnum is a 35,000 psi cartridge in factory loaded ammo. Decreasing the bore dia will only drive that up, as will handloading +P type ammo. Add in fools and you have "Liability issues ?" They obviously must err on the side of caution.

SAMMI spec is .431 so that's what they do.

A revolver such as a Ruger SBH with a .430 or even .429 bore is able to digest this type of ammo continuously for two reasons. First it is a strong gun to begin with, and made with high quality materials, and Second there is a pressure bleed off point at the cylinder barrel gap.

On the revolver, the chamber might see 35K psi for milliseconds, but the barrel doesn't see the full pressure due to the cylinder gap. With a 5-8" barrel the bullet is gone in a few more milliseconds and the pressure drops quickly. IN other words it is not really seeing the full 35K psi except at one point IE the chamber.

On the rifle the pressure is on the gun for a much longer period of time (3-5 times longer) and with a closed breach the gun must contain the full amount of pressure with every shot. So it does see full 35K + every time

A 10K psi spike in pressure by a deep seated bullet or a heavy charge might be just enough to stuff the bolt right between your eyes.

This is the only logic I have been able to come up with that actually makes any sense. See if you agree?

I would like to see them tighten up the twist rate on the barrels, but I'm not holding my breath. When asked about that issue, the guy said "it has always been 1/38"

Obviously it is a "traditional" thing.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Fatelk: one must consider that a 250 gr SWC boolit from a pistol will go clean thru an elk at 1000-1100 fps and leave a big hole behind. Not a hot load at all. .44 Special can be easily loaded hotter.

A .44 round "down loaded" to 15-1600 fps from a rifle will probably go thru two elk.

however, I don't know if it would go thru two really fat elks....:bigsmyl2:

Randy

[jlgehrke]

I have just bought a 1894 .44 and have had pretty good luck with hornady 300 grain bullets as well as 310 grain lee . Just an idea.

[EDK]

A lot of things going on...or not going on!... since MARLIN was purchased. WHEN they get back to producing lever actions and resolve the production issues, you might see barrels with a faster rifling twist. Some gun writer...don't remember who...made some comments to that effect. We need to remember that anything you read in a typical gun magazine is probably six months old...Internet is a lot faster.

A lever action isn't a bench gun. Glenn Fryxell's article on 1894 MARLINS at lasc.us will help your accuracy quest. Add in that you're dealing with a pistol cartridge, etc, etc and you will probably not be happy. Pistol cartridge lever guns are a mid to late 19th century assault rifle...Documentary on the Battle of the Little Big Horn last night mentioned some things about this from archaelogical work there. IF you want accuracy, you get a bolt gun or some non traditional lever gun like a SAVAGE 99, etc.

:redneck::cbpour::guntootsmiley:

[303Guy]

I suspect the reason for the tighter bore in the revolver is because of the forcing cone system. The boolit gets fired into the forcing cone and needs to get swaged down to align it properly so a tighter bore would work better. Softer boolits upset in the forcing cone anyway. Once that boolit is moving it doesn't really matter how much it gets swaged down in the bore or forcing cone, it's not going to influence chamber pressure much. Barrel pressure is no issue. An action can shatter and the brass case can get extruded all over the place without damaging the barrel. A 308 Win cartridge can be fired in a 270, destroying the action while the barrel remains serviceable - if one can find it.

[fatelk]

I made an interesting observation while putting the rifle back together, and just now got back from the range.

Is it normal for the magazine tube to press hard against the barrel? I couldn't get the tube back in, and found that there was some serious interference against the contour of the barrel to get it to fit into the receiver where it belongs. The tube wasn't bent, but it would just about need to be bent to get it to fit. I could pressure it into place but that didn't seem right, so I filed a flat onto the tube where it was hitting. I had to file away quite a bit to get it to fit. This can't be right? I looked at it every way I could think of before grabbing a file.

I loaded up some rounds with bullets cast from a borrowed Saeco #428- ACWW/range mix 245gr .432", and some 231gr pure linotype .433".

The weather has been great for a couple weeks. Today I had a day off and a little time, of course it's pouring rain. I went out anyhow and shot a few groups when it slowed to a drizzle. I even went out and bought a scope base for it; put a Leupold scope on it from one of my accurate rifles, trying to eliminate as many variables as possible.

Due to the weather I only shot at a paced off 29yds. I had five 5-shot groups, with four different loads using the aforementioned bullets and Unique, WC820, and H110.

The 10gr Unique group was not good, but all of the heavy loads did much better, actually into the range of acceptable accuracy. They measured from .9" to 1.2". This can be extrapolated into the vicinity of 3 to 3.5" at 100 yards. I can live with that.

Not sure if it was the pressure on the barrel or the bigger bullets that did it, but I'm happy to admit that it seems I was wrong about the bore damage being the cause of all my woes.:) I wonder if this kind of bore damage is a lot more common than I knew. There seems to be some potential for this old gun after all. I'm thinking I might pursue a gas check load after all and see what that does.

Funny thing though: Not a trace of leading that I could see in the Marlin barrel, but I shot a few through my S&W 629 and seriously gummed up the bore with 5 shots. I thought they would be OK since .432" bullets fit through the cylinder throats OK (.432 did but .433 did not). Leading was severe and mostly about halfway down the bore.

[rhouser]

IMHO its the big bullet. I am +1 on the RD bullets for Marlin rifle. I have 2 lee pass through sizers for my .44 cast. I use one for the Marlin and one for my Ruger Blackhawk. The fat bullets won't chamber in my revolver. rc

[shooter5354]

Try the bigger bullet. I recently bought a brand new Taurus long barreled revolver (due to handgun laws in UK), had nothing but trouble, including bullets keyholing. Eventually measured root of rifling & cylinders & found all to be exactly 0.434"!!!! Got a custom mold made, cast bullets at 0.434" & now getting virtually everything inside the 9 ring free standing at 25 yards. A lot cheaper than a new barrel.

[helice]

Some years back I bought a Rossi single shot in 44 Mag. (It was cheap. What can I say?) The first shots were 240JHPs at a 2X2 target at 25 yards. Three of the 5 shots hit the target and they all went in sideways. They printed the prettiest profile holes I ever saw. Got a mould that was .434" and started getting round holes again. Apparently Rossi hires from the same opium den.

[9.3X62AL]

I am pretty happy with my nearly-year-old RiceChester Model 1892 in 44 Magnum. It sports a .429"-.430" groove set, 6 lands @ .418", and a 1-26" twist rate. It isn't a tiny varmint rig, and it will place 200 grain plain-bases at 1200 FPS and 250 grain GC boolits at 1800 FPS (all .431") into 2.0"-2.5" at 100 yards with its buckhorn open irons. I'm happy as can be with that work from a 20" carbine using old-school sighting and 57-year-old eyes. We have an iron coyote silhouette at our range site at 100 and 200 yards--if I do my part, I can hit 10 outta 10 at the 200 yard song dog cutout. That'll do!

[Salmoneye]

I have a Model 92 and wondered why the bore was larger. edler7 posted that the rifle and handgun bore specs are different. In a nutshell, the handgun bores are .429 and the rifle bores are .432. He was nice enough to provide a link. You can check the chamber specs here:

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm

It would be interesting to discover why they differ. It's not an old cartridge, shot from firearms with wildly differing dimensions.

Though the bore diameters do indeed differ, both SAAMI specs (revolver/rifle) call for the same .432" Lead Bullet...

[izzyjoe]

i wish that marlington would change that barrel to a faster twist, i can deal with the oversized bore but that 1-38 twist stink's. i use the 310gr lee, and it starts to wobble at 100yd. sometimes they keyhole a little, but when i used a slower powder, and alot of it, that all stoped. now it's a deer killin' machine!