Newbie rollcrimp and BP question

[Hubertus]

After playing with a ML shotgun I got the idea to try some Black Powder in my 16 Ga SxS Breechloader.

The load I came up with using Internet and some …[smilie=l: thinking is as follows:
69 grains of Swiss 1 ½ fg, 19/32 waxed cork wad, 7/8 of #7 shot and cardboard overshot card in a Rottweil paper hull. It might be a bit heavy on the powder side but the gun is choked pretty tight so I hope to achieve a wider pattern. Does that sound ok?

I found an old crimper it looks like this:
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Shell%20loading/IMG00651-20120513-0946.jpg

Experimenting I thought I had to cut down the shells because they seemed pretty long, but the first results showed I shortened them too much, are those two still ok to shoot? The middle one was the first the right one the second try.
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Shell%20loading/IMG00648-20120513-0941.jpg



Then I used the full length shells and just ran them in the tool. After the first go around in the crimper I noticed about and 1/8” gap of the rolled-in rim to the overshot card maybe a little less. Since I learned with the BPCR and muzzle loader - BP needs to have no voids in the load column I just put it in the crimper again and with little bit more pressure was able to crimp it tight. That’s what it looks like:
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Shell%20loading/IMG00649-20120513-0941.jpg
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Shell%20loading/IMG00650-20120513-0941.jpg


Could this build over pressure when fired? Should I rather use another over shot card to avoid the rim being rolled more than necessary?

Your help is highly appreciated.

Thank you Hubertus

[elk hunter]

In loading black powder in shotguns the rule is equal amounts, by volume, of powder and shot.
69 grains is 2.5 drams, which in the 16 gauge is my favorite load behind 1 oz of shot. Your load will be a bit faster than standard and as you pointed out could open the pattern. Your crimps should work fine.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Good morning Hubertus, I do not load black powder so cant comment on that but your roll crimps look very good in the last picture!
The first two you can fire even tho the crimp is not deep enough for a good combustion!
A drop of silicone on the crimping head will do good too if you are roll crimping quite a few shells.
Ajay
Video Memories
VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[EMC45]

Great looking shells!! Can you take a pic of the front of the roll crimper please? I would like to replicate that tool.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Here is a picture of my Lyman roll crimper
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Lymanrollcrimper.jpg
Ajay
Video Memories
VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[375RUGER]

Great looking shells!! Can you take a pic of the front of the roll crimper please? I would like to replicate that tool.

I was thinking the same thing.

Good looking roll Hubertus.

[EMC45]

Excellent....I will have to see my wife's uncle with a LeBlond lathe soon...

[Hubertus]

Thank you Gentlemen.

Well if it looks and sounds OK I'll go ahead and crimp the rest.
Then the range will show how the pattern looks like and whether I can break some clays. It'll definitely scare some of the trap shooters :lol:

I have tried to take some photos of the crimper, unfortunately it's not so easy with a cell phone camera. Hopefully the details show what you want to see.
There are basically 3 sections. Let me know whether it works for you.

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Shell%20loading/IMG00656-20120514-2009.jpg

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Shell%20loading/IMG00655-20120514-2008.jpg

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Shell%20loading/IMG00654-20120514-2008.jpg


Hubertus

[Newtire]

Those are some real nice crimps. Some of the tools make a squarish looking crimp but yours makes that nice rounded one. You are safer with roll crimping than with the folded crimp shells. Read the Sherman Bell articles in Double Gun Journal about the pressure differences between roll and Star crimps. Roll crimps give much much lower pressures in all the loads they tried. I used to think that the opposite was true. The other thing they used to say was that the overshot wad got in the way and blew the patterns. How did they get those high percentage patterns back in the days of Charles Askins, Elmer Keith and Nash Buckingham? Roll crimping is a real good way to go if you need room in a shotshell. Once again, those are some great looking crimps. Don't change a thing.

[Hubertus]

Thank you for the confirmation.

When you do something new, it's good to get assurance something is right :-)
Looks like I was lucky finding this crimping tool. It was pretty rusted and gunked up when I got it - but after some cleaning and oiling there is only a little patina, which I like.
It's supposed to look 'old time'.

I will let you know how the range session went, hopefully the coming weekend I'll make it to the range.

Hubertus