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1bluehorse
05-13-2012, 01:15 PM
I know, I know, this has been beat to death on more than one forum but I just did some measuring (I've only checked my 45 colt dies before as that's what I load for mostly)(this is also where my previous opinions originated) and thought I would run this by you guys to see If that horse actually did kick me in the head after I fell off, and my math abilities have completely deserted me..(more than likely) I will preface this by saying I've generally been an advocate of this die (the 45 colt die above) and pooh poohed alot of the "swaging" of cast bullet threads I've read but now I'm not so sure anymore. The only other LCFCD's I have (for pistol) are 38/357 and 44sp/Mag.

The ID of the carbide ring on the 38/357 die measured .376, the brass (both nickel and brass) is a nominal .011.

The ID of the 44 die measured .452 and the brass (both kinds) also measure .011.

The 45 colt ID measured .477, with the brass the same as the others.

The ID's were measured with minus pin gauges and the brass with calipers.

By subtracting the brass thickness from the ID of the die you should get bullet diameter, right??????? If my math, and method, are correct, the 357 die would allow a bullet dia of .354, the 44 die would allow a bullet dia of .430 and the 45 colt die would allow .455...(***) Or have I completley lost all form of reasoning and should give up this pastime and just move into the "home". If this is correct it would explain (to me) why the 357's always "bump" using this die and why a lot of guys are complaing about "swaging" their .432 sized 44's. I would also add that the brass thickness measurments could be +or- a thousandth with the use calipers and headstamp. I'll wait to see what you all have to say..but I think my opinion on this die has changed a bit...

LUBEDUDE
05-13-2012, 02:24 PM
Have you pulled any of your bullets after loading to see if yours are getting swaged?

My 357, 44, and 45's don't. Even my .359 bullets don't get sized down. So, I could care less about other measurements. It's results that matter.

That's my experience.

1bluehorse
05-13-2012, 04:32 PM
Have you pulled any of your bullets after loading to see if yours are getting swaged?

My 357, 44, and 45's don't. Even my .359 bullets don't get sized down. So, I could care less about other measurements. It's results that matter.

That's my experience.

Like I said, I've never had any issues with 45 colt. Just pulled ONE of the 357's. They are as cast .360, pulled was .357. Whatever...just some measurment checking and general information is all it was. You can do what you want with it...or not, makes not a whit to me...

geargnasher
05-13-2012, 05:18 PM
Where the issues come in are with 9mm and .40 S&W. .45 Colt generally has a chamber that is WAY too large for the ammunition anyway, so I wouldn't see that as being a problem caliber.

Gear

Colorado4wheel
05-16-2012, 12:20 AM
They are typically about. 003" under Max SAMMI size to account for typical brass spring back after sizing. Problem is brass springs back more then lead. So bullet gets swagged and the brass springs back. Read the thread about the Redding vs Lee taper crimp dies.

1bluehorse
05-17-2012, 05:21 PM
I understand what you're saying, loss of neck tension on the bullet. I think thats why a lot of folks believe that the die is swaging the bullets. I really haven't seen the swaging but have seen loss of tension..I've pulled a lot of bullets lately checking for swaging and haven't really had any. But I don't use really oversized bullets, which seems to be the rage lately, either. "Catch phrases" these days for cast bullets: Heavy for caliber and Oversized...but I'm an old fogey and don't see the reasoning behind buying a 327 whatever and then looking for "heavy" cast bullets or wanting a 300+grainer for 44spl, 200gr for 357 etc; buy a bigger gun..go ahead, flame suit on...:coffeecom

MtGun44
05-21-2012, 12:02 AM
So what is the purpose of this silly die? If you have a proper sizer die, and a proper
boolit diam - what possible good could it do?

We know of lots of ACTUAL damage that they do. Someone please define an actual
benefit that they might provide?

Bill

jcwit
05-21-2012, 12:20 AM
Some claim that the die is benifical when using jacketed bullets.

Myself, I see no good use for it.