158gr mold dropping 165gr boolits?

[John in WI]

My Lee 158gr LSWC mold is dropping boolits much heavier than listed. I measured the weight on 2 scales, and the weight runs 165-166gr.

I'm fine with a heavier boolit, but I don't have any load data for it.

I WAS planning to use a starting load of 5gr Unique, and work up to a max of 5.5gr.

How does an extra 7 or 8 grains of boolit weight affect the powder charge I should be looking at?

It seems like a lot to ignore, but is 7 or 8 grains enough that I can ignore it?

[44MAG#1]

I don't worry about it. Besises Lyman has data for the 173 gr Keith both for 38 special and 357 Mag and they run close to170 gr weight.
When you consider factories claim a 6 percent spread in powder burn rates is okay within differents lots of the same powder is okay then 6 grs or so of bullet weight is nothing.
Many people sweat the small things tooooooooo much

[Hardcast416taylor]

John, I was always told, and believe, that if your bullet is coming out heavier than is expected or purported to be then you have a higher pure lead percentage in your mix.Robert

[John in WI]

I was wondering about that--I have one alloy that's 1:1 wheel weight to water pipe with a little solder in there for tin. The other alloy is 1:1 pure, dead soft lead with soft indoor range scrap. And the dead soft alloy averages ~5-6gr heavy, and the wheel weight alloy ~1-3gr heavy.

In any case--as I'm trying to reload tonight, I'm also finding that the wheel weight alloy seems quite a bit bigger too. A few of those boolits had some shavings around the neck when I seated them. The dead soft ones seemed to drop right in.

I really need to break down and get a real press. Or learn the "magic touch" to using my Lee Loader. I mushed a couple of cases and got the necks all wrinkled up, I set off a primer trying to seat it...

[John in WI]

I was wondering about that--I have one alloy that's 1:1 wheel weight to water pipe with a little solder in there for tin. The other alloy is 1:1 pure, dead soft lead with soft indoor range scrap. And the dead soft alloy averages ~5-6gr heavy, and the wheel weight alloy ~1-3gr heavy.

In any case--as I'm trying to reload tonight, I'm also finding that the wheel weight alloy seems quite a bit bigger too. A few of those boolits had some shavings around the neck when I seated them. The dead soft ones seemed to drop right in.

I really need to break down and get a real press. Or learn the "magic touch" to using my Lee Loader. I mushed a couple of cases and got the necks all wrinkled up, I set off a primer trying to seat it...

[Kraschenbirn]

My old Ideal 358156 is supposed to drop 158 gr from Lyman #2 alloy but runs 165-166 when I use my 50/50 (range scrap/COWWs) alloy...which should be pretty close to your WW/water pipe/tin blend. Just begin with the 158 gr. starting load and work up from there.

Bill

[jmsj]

John,
I believe that Lee bases the weight of their bullet molds using a 10-1 lead/tin alloy. If you are using an alloy with more than lead than the 10-1 alloy your bullets are going to weigh heavier.
jmsj

[ColColt]

I have a 358429 mold that drops boolits between 164 and 172 depending on alloy. With ww's it's usually 172 but go to something like Lyman #2(BHN15) and it drops to about 165 gr. 170 gr data is scarce but I'll use 9 gr of HS-6 with either weight and no problems.

[John in WI]

Hey ColColt--I just got a can of HS-6 for reloading .38special, but I didn't have very good luck with it using. The Hodgon site has a load listed for 158gr LSWC over 6.3gr HS-6 and a velocity of1010fps.

Is 9gr HS-6 a .38 or a .357magnum load?

[rintinglen]

Assuming 38 Special loadings, 5.0 grains of Unique would be pretty far up there. 5.5 grains is over the top for 38's. If you'll be using them in a 357 magnum Revolver, no big deal, but in a snubby that might be too much of a good thing.
Lyman lists a 3.7 grain starting load with a 170 grain boolit and a top load of only 4.2 grains [albeit, with a very short oal}, while for a 160 grain boolit, the starting load is 4.2 and the top plus p load is 5.3 grains. Speer lists 4.3 to 4.7 grains, bottom to top, for 158 grain 38 specials.

I have never worried too much about minor weight variations. While 165 is about 4 % heavier than the "rated" 158, it will likely make no difference worth mentioning unless you are loading redline, over-the-top, powder charges to begin with. If you wish to play it safe, reduce the recommended powder charge by 5%, if you are using data for a 158. Or just use the 170 data.

[John in WI]

Thanks for that information. I would be shooting them out of a 4" S and W model 64, so I'm not as worried about the recoil. But I do want to play it safe in terms of pressure--it's not at .357 and I don't want to push the SAAMI limits too hard and test my luck.

I started at 5.2gr because my Lyman reference listed 5.4gr as there +P loading at a test pressure of 18000CUP (for a 158gr Linotype) using Unique. So I guess 5.2gr, but with a heavier boolit, would be pretty much the most pressure I would ever want to put through this thing.
I don't think it would risk catastrophic failure, but I agree it's a pretty hot loading for the .38spl. I'm wondering if that extra bit of boolit weight is enough to put 18000CUP up over 20000CUP?

[ColColt]

Hey ColColt--I just got a can of HS-6 for reloading .38special, but I didn't have very good luck with it using. The Hodgon site has a load listed for 158gr LSWC over 6.3gr HS-6 and a velocity of1010fps.

Is 9gr HS-6 a .38 or a .357magnum load?

I use 6.5 gr of HS-6 for a +P load in the 38 case and 7.5 gr in the magnum case for the 158 gr LSWC. The 9 gr is for the 170 gr boolit in 357 cases but it's a load I worked up myself in a Ruger GP100 and would not recommend it unless you have a similar strong revolver and work up to it yourself. If you decide to try it Id look for signs of pressure such as sticky cases upon extraction, flattened and/or cratered primers, soot around them or even perforation.

Speer's manual gives 6.7 gr as max with the 158 gr boolit for +P loads but does not show HS-6 for the 357. Hodgon's online loading data indicates 9.5 gr as max with the 158 gr boolit in the 357 Magnum. They do show 9.2 gr of HS-6 with a 170 jacketed boolit and I just backed off a bit and tried 9 gr with the cast boolit(358429) It worked well for me although 7.5-8 gr gave a little better accuracy.

[John in WI]

Here is a response I just received from a top bullet manufacturer's technical support person about my problem:

"First of all I don’t see any problems with your 5.2 grains of Unique whether you are using 158 grain bullets or 162-4 grains.
If you see signs of leading that is a good indicator of when to reduce a load to reduce the barrel fouling. High velocities and lead bullets generally mean barrel leading which is not a desirable situation.

So … I think you are on the right track and if you have any questions let me know and I’ll try to help."

So, while I am going to step down a few tenths and "work up" as I should have done the first time, at least I'm not too worried that my 5.2gr Unique charge under a 164gr boolit is going to have me sitting there with the cylinder blown out of my gun. I'll try them, see if they eject ok, and if they do they would probably be a good occasional/heavy use round.

I really need to get my hands on a chronograph. I'd be happy with any charge that could launch this boolit at 900fps. With this really soft alloy and a nice drilled hollow point, I think this could could be a great combo.

[MtGun44]

Pretty much irrelevant. Drop the charge by 2% if it makes you sleep sounder.

Bill