The Pacific North West Clear Cut Rifle Discussion

[Just Duke]

*****Pacific North West Clear Cut Elk/Deer Rifle Components*****

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=001C&mid=535110
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/SAFARI/Model-70-Extreme-Weather-SS2.png
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/SAFARI/Model-70-Extreme-Weather-SS3.png
Google Earth tells me that one of my residences now has clear cuts close by. Like many pock marked area's and from the map scale most look 400 to 500 yards from side to side.
At the moment neither the wife and I possess any dedicated long range hunting rifles.
Other than 338 Lapua which the brass is nut-so priced were looking at a couple of Winchester Model 70 Extreme Weather Stainless "Control Round Feed" 7MM Magums I have only shot the 7MM Mag a few times but noticed it certainly has a quicker sharper recoil than most other rifles.
Holland Muzzle Brakes which we find work very well would be incorporated.
For optics were looking 30MM Leupold 4X16X50MM and and a BDC.
Ethical shot clause would certainly be factored in and would certainly pass on anything over 500 yards.
A state of the art range finder would accompany the rifles to assist in humane dispatching.
For projectile selection we were pondering either 168gr SMK's which they use exclusively at Huskemaw Optics/Rifle Company or Barnes 175gr TSX.




Please post what you have used in shooting across clear cuts.

[dale2242]

25-06 Ruger #1 loaded with 4831 and 100gr Nosler Partition bullets for deer.
Weatherby MK5 in 300 Whby Mag loaded with 4831 and 165 Noslar Partitions for elk.....dale

[x101airborne]

I think you are on the right track with your choices. Although I would probably save some money and just buy a couple senderos. The 7 mag is a great round and a good choice provided you spend the time to master it at longer range. Dont get me wrong.... it isnt hard to become a dedicated long range hunter, but it does take time. Any chance you could shoot some varmints for long range practice? If you could reliably hit woodchucks or prarie dogs out to that distance it would be great practice.
I would ABSOLUTELY STAY AWAY FROM THE SMK'S FOR HUNTING!!!!!! I cant stress it enough. They are not hunting bullets and will fail you when you need them most. On game! NO NO NO!! If you are wanting a softer, easily expanding bullet try the hornady SST. They are just nasty out of my 280 Ackley. Other than that I really like just the plain ole cup and core Sierra Gamekings. Havent had one fail me yet. And they are a lot cheaper than any of the designer bullets available. The TSX's I have had great performance out of but they are a little pricey. Definately a no fail bullet but hard to practice with em at 60 something cents a piece. And trust me, you are going to need a lot of practice. Target shooting alone is not going to get you there. Animals move and you have to be ready for it if you are going to ethically hunt at that range.
Your optics are a good choice. Leupy's are definately my favorite. But for just a hunting reticle, I have grown fond of the Nikon reticle. BDC, I think is what they call it. Simple, no fuss, easy to use and range estimation is automatic. The circles are based on the height of a deer's chest. Put the circle on the deer that fits from top to bottom of its chest and pull the trigger. And it doesn't cover up what you are trying to shoot.
Anyway, these are just my choices. But I have shot a yote at 600 yards, and hogs out to 1000 but mainly cause that was the only chance I had. I wasnt ethically hunting and didnt care if they ran. Deer hunting is of course going to be a little different.

[Just Duke]

And trust me, you are going to need a lot of practice. Target shooting alone is not going to get you there. Animals move and you have to be ready for it if you are going to ethically hunt at that range.


Thanks for your reply. I do have years of experience hunting and shooting at long range with like and similar weapons platforms.
Here's an exert from one of our tactical weapons forums http://ebrsopmods.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=geartestandevaluation&action=display&thread=1797 www.ebrsopmods.com. Set aside my first tactical rifle was assisted by Gale McMillan in 1977.
On a lighter note Colorado prairie dogs in the "70's" at 600 was always a confidence builder. ;)
I'll scare up the 300 yard target pics also. ;)

Sighting in the 20 inch and 24 in AR-10T's.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/AR-10T24INCHRANGE1.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/AR-10T24INCHRANGE2.jpg


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/AR-10T24INCHRANGE3.jpg


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/AR-10T24INCHRANGE4.jpg


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/AR-10T24INCHRANGE5.jpg


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/AR-10T24INCHRANGE6.jpg


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/AR-10T20INCHRANGE.jpg


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/AR-10T20INCHBARREL.jpg

[krag35]

When I HAVE to hunt the Westside, I take 2 rifles. Win 94 444 Marlin (285 gr LBT @2100 fps) and a Rem 700 30/06 (165 gr Hornaday SP @ 2800 fps) If Im sitting and watching a clear cut (most of the time) I have the 06, when I'm wading/crawling/climbing/falling/cussing through the Rhodedandron, I cary the 444.

I'm NOT a fan of long range "hunting", but the outfit you posted looks like it would be suitable for what you want.

+1 on cup and core bullets for hunting.

[excess650]

I never thought the 7mm Remington Magnum to be a hard kicker.

My suggestion would be that you opt for a premium hunting bullet like a Nosler Partition. My father used Federal Premium factory ammo with 160gr on a couple of hunts in the Yukon for moose. In that he was left handed and didn't have a heavier caliber rifle, he opted for upgraded ammo. He couldn't find the same with 175gr, so he took the 160s and shot through both bulls that he took. The one bullet that didn't exit hit the far shoulder and destroyed it, so performance was more than acceptable. He has since continued to use the same ammo for various other hunts for sheep, caribou and whitetail.

[Just Duke]

I just did some poking around after reading this.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Information/Barsness%20Article.pdf
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=88284
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA4UyRGe3sU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14eQWPiSLAM&feature=youtu.be

I pretty much planned on using the Barnes TSX from the beginning.
http://50caliberforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=reloadingforthesafariala&action=display&thread=3000


BARNES 400 GRAIN .416 TSX Range Report

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/SAFARI/GU2-1.jpg

[x101airborne]

Duke..... I did not realize you were that experienced behind a rifle. You can understand my warning to someone not familiar with long range hunting but you have DEFINATELY had the trigger time, so for what it is worth, I feel better. Please dont think I was doubting you personally.

I used the nosler partition a couple times in 25-06 from a Sendero no less and have had miserable results. They do penetrate well, but I dont think our little deer offer enough resistance to let them work well. The TSX's have never failed me.

[horsesoldier]

Tikka T3 hunter with 3-9 leupould CDS turret. 190 grain berger vld@ 2813 fps. Puts the hammer down!

[runfiverun]

Adam,
take the ar-10.
if a 308 won't go 400 yds and kill a deer, i wouldn't bother hunting.
when i have to reach across something, i use my slow twist 7 x 57- i.c.l. if i throw a 139 sst/or bt interlock at 3k it'll get there quick enough and do the job.
i keep a few of those loads with me, and use my 300 yd dot in the leupold bdc scope at 400 over my regular load.
it's a bit of a compromise, but i ain't gonna sweat an inch high or low at either range.

[1bluehorse]

Hope I'm not on the other side of that clear cut when you cut loose with one of those 500yd shots...looks like the right stuff to do it with though..

[M-Tecs]

Barnes or Berger will work very well. SMK’s the jackets are too tough to open reliably. Sometimes they will sometimes they won’t.

For scopes scope leupold or Nightforce. The Varmint Hunters reticule is my personnel favorite. I mostly have mill dot but I love the varmint hunters reticule for the ease of windage hold off. The Bullet Drop Compensation (BDC) dials work well.

I am not a fan of Huskemaw Optics scopes. I have only seen two. Both owned by NRA Highpower shooter. Per the owners second rate optics and second rate tracking. Neither one of the shooter still has them.

[FrankG]

6.5-06,140 Nosler Part.
30-338 Mag,180gr Nosler Part.
300 Weath. Mag, 180 Nosler Part.

[insanelupus]

Duke,

You might want to check the topo map along with Google Earth. Just because a clear cut covers 400-500 yards doesn't mean you can see all of it due to eleveation and where you are sitting. Even if you can see end to end, a lot of those timber cuts have enough elevation that the actual yardage you are shooting will be less than the 400-500 yards you might think due to the elevation changes in topography.

[olde sarge]

Duke, I am probably not as experienced as some of these people but after 22 years in the Army and three trips to Perry I have some experience. I don't think you have to look any farther than the AR10 platform and I say this having taken more than a dozen elk out of the Yakima unit a few years ago, before I moved to Texas' with my old browning BLR in .308. Shots ranged up to about 350 yds and I was using the old silver tips in 150 gr. Many think they need a Magnum and then can not handle the Magnum package so stories of game mistically bounding away carrying one or several shots of lead heavy enough to sink a large boat. The truth being they missed or gut shot the animals due to over gunning themselves. Know your firearm and learn to place the shots which will make nearly any caliber.25-06 or larger a real elk getter. Olde Sarge

[Just Duke]

Adam,
take the ar-10.







Duke, I am probably not as experienced as some of these people but after 22 years in the Army and three trips to Perry I have some experience. I don't think you have to look any farther than the AR10 platform and I say this having taken more than a dozen elk out of the Yakima unit a few years ago, before I moved to Texas' with my old browning BLR in .308. Shots ranged up to about 350 yds and I was using the old silver tips in 150 gr. Many think they need a Magnum and then can not handle the Magnum package so stories of game mistically bounding away carrying one or several shots of lead heavy enough to sink a large boat. The truth being they missed or gut shot the animals due to over gunning themselves. Know your firearm and learn to place the shots which will make nearly any caliber.25-06 or larger a real elk getter. Olde Sarge

Thanks guys but I prefer to use the AR-10's for other applications plus they just don't horse scabbard well. SCABBARDS LINK (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=149395) They also bleed off a fair amount of gas to cycle the action with a loss in some velocity and energy.
I have owned several large caliber flat shooters like the 300 UltraMag and the 338 UltraMag. The problem with the UltraMag cases is pressures soar at 118 degrees and the primer pockets no longer will hold primers after one firing. This was true with factory ammo also Remington sent me.
Walmart, Remington 338 Ultra Mag HERE (http://50caliberforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=alaskanbigboreboltguns&action=display&thread=1969)


If I don't get rifles, funds will surely end up at the Nordstrom ladies shoe counter if you know what I mean.

[Quigley284]

For long range shooting you need several things to come together for success. A scope that is up to the task. I don't think you can see too good. A capable rifle that must be a shooter. An accurate bullet for the task at hand. I like the 7 mag. You will need a range finder that wont fail you. Last but not least, time on the trigger. Must be able to dile up elevation, make wind corrections and make a good shot.

[Beau Cassidy]

It really bothers me to see someone plan on sniping deer at that range. People do it but ethically, I feel it is too far- especially for someone who doesn't have a lot of trigger time. Regardless of the platform you use, you are going to need a very solid rest and a decent trigger.

[Just Duke]

It really bothers me to see someone plan on sniping deer at that range. People do it but ethically, I feel it is too far- especially for someone who doesn't have a lot of trigger time.

Were you addressing me sir?

[Just Duke]

Duke..... I did not realize you were that experienced behind a rifle. You can understand my warning to someone not familiar with long range hunting but you have DEFINATELY had the trigger time, so for what it is worth, I feel better. Please dont think I was doubting you personally.
Were good sir. No offence taken. Thanks for being the devils advocate and speaking in defense of the Deer/Elk's humane kill.

[bearcove]

I think the biggest priority is to get off the bench and shoot from the positions that are available in the field. Prone is usually not an option due to weeds and brush. No bench or sandbags either.

Most places it seems sitting or kneeling is as low as you can get. That is what limits range for me. It also makes magnums unnecessary for me. I am down to 7-08 and 30-06 and 35 whelen for rifle hunting. Out to 300 yards they are great and for ME thats about the limit due to improvised shooting position. AND much more fun to shoot.

[Just Duke]

22 years in the Army and three trips to Perry
I say this having taken more than a dozen elk out of the Yakima unit a few years ago, before I moved to Texas' with my old browning BLR in .308. Shots ranged up to about 350 yds and I was using the old silver tips in 150 gr. Many think they need a Magnum and then can not handle the Magnum package Know your firearm and learn to place the shots which will make nearly any caliber.25-06 or larger a real elk getter. Olde Sarge

Were you in with with the Striker or the big medical facility?
I hunted with a fella that was a Cobra Pilot out of Ft Carson in 77 that used a 25-06 for deer and elk and did very well with it. We had some good times hunting together. I most always included at least one guy from the local bases for hunts as they were along way from home.
Here's a map of the area Sarge is talking about. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Yakima&hnear=Yakima,+Washington&t=h&z=12
Looks like lot's of high desert

[Just Duke]

I think the biggest priority is to get off the bench and shoot from the positions that are available in the field. Prone is usually not an option due to weeds and brush. No bench or sandbags either.



Very much agreed with what you said on the prone position.
I don't have a bench to shoot off of. I shoot in the Nevada desert. No benches there. Check out my video on the M-14 thread. No bench.
I have though used a tree as sort off a resting my arm against it as a steady rest. And day pack thrown over a log makes a nice hasty rest.

[429421Cowboy]

Remington 700 SPS 26" 7mm Rem mag, 168 gr Berger VLD over 61.0 gr of RL-22 CCI 250's W-W cases for 2750, Leupold 3.5-10x40 B&C BDC, 3 lb trigger and plenty of range time. Haven't had a chance to try it in the clearcuts for elk yet but hope to change that this fall.
Took a buck antelope at just over 300 with it last fall and loaned it to my uncle to take a whitetail as well, both passthroughs and the only game taken with the load so far, the gun/load is an accurate one and i trust the Berger would handle any elk i ran across as well. Several guys in the local rifle club finally convinced me to load them after seeing their results, the tv shows didn't sell me on them but seeing them in use and using them myself made me a diehard believer. And at $42/100 locally they are affordable at my income level.

[horsesoldier]

How many Yakima guys are on this board? LOL

[Just Duke]

I have a Extreme Weather in 338 Win Mag. It’s only a 2 or 3 shot rifle at best. The nicely fluted & skinny 26″ barrel is light for packing but is so thin, it won’t hold a 5 shot group. 2 or 3 shots… wait 20 minutes to cool, shoot 2 or 3, and so on. This is unfortunate because this rifle is very well made.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f61/winchester-model-70-extreme-weather-ss-38730/index6.html

Hmmm...I knew I would find this if I looked long enough. Looks like we need to look for a couple of donor rifles and rebarrel them with something like the Remington Sendero contour. Gack!!! Is if I didn't have enough projects.
The 300 Winchester Magnum looks to be more versatile as far as bullet weights goes and us with 3000 168gr AMax's. It's an option.

[olde sarge]

Duke, sorry didn't respond quicker. Was with the Medical Facility. Really miss Washington but can live on retirement better in East Texas.

[41mag]

I don't have much on game over 450 but I have done quite a bit of shooting with several braked rifles in the larger calibers.

I saw that your looking at the Holland brake, you might also look into the ones being produced by Defensive Edge. My hunting pardner has one on his .300 RUM, and is pushing the 185gr Bergers out at some gawd awefull velocity. The think recoils less than my 25-06 does. I will say however that hearing protection is a must and you will only forget once.

We both had a couple of the .270 Allen Magnums built by Kirby, and then my bud decided he wanted to go bigger, so swapped it off on the RUM. He had Shawn put the brake on, and add a Jewell trigger, and other than that its simply the same stock rifle he picked up used. It will shoot bug hole groups at 300yds better than most will do at 100.

We usually always shoot off Harris bi-pods do to what has already been mentioned about the terrain. They are simply the easiest way for us to set up when working an ambush on the hogs. As for bigger game, no doubt the standard .300 WM has plenty for most anything if the bullet is properly placed, and from the looks of your targets, that won't be much of an issue.

Anyway just thought I would throw out another brake for you to look into, and if you can give Shawn a call, he is an awesome fellow to work with on a rifle and does awesome work. Just be careful or he will talk you into the Edge....

[quilbilly]

Since I hunt the clear cuts with a muzzleloader, I don't consider this much of an issue. Deer are creatures of the edges and rarely seem to go far into the cuts on the Olympic Peninsula. Only once in the last 25 years have I had a shot over 75 yards and on that one the deer was sleeping so I had plenty of time to put the round ball on target at 175 yards. That was the best eating deer ever since it never woke up.

[MBTcustom]

Hey there Duke, I dont mean to patronize, or give advice to someone so much more experienced than myself, so take this as it is intended.
When I started looking for a long distance rifle, I was looking at trajectory VS. Ft/Lb. of energy delivered at any distance. I studied ballistic calculators and charts quite a while and IMHO, the perfect middle ground for those two conflicting elements was found to be held very securely by the 300 Winchester Magnum. 7mm shoots a little flatter without the delivered energy downrange. It just loses its potency very quickly over distance.
Not that it matters at >600 yard distances, but the 300WM is the finger of death anywhere in that range. I'm sure that with your ability to place the shot, what little the 300 gives up to the 7mm is probably a mute point, but I wanted to mention it anyway, because I am curious about why you would choose one over the other when the 300 has the edge.
I also wanted to offer you a pile of about 140 1X 7mm rem-mag brass that I have been sitting on if you want it.

[geargnasher]

Duke, just go for the Barret. Might have to take an extra pack horse to carry it, though.

Gear

[Just Duke]

Hey there Duke, I dont mean to patronize, or give advice to someone so much more experienced than myself, so take this as it is intended.
When I started looking for a long distance rifle, I was looking at trajectory VS. Ft/Lb. of energy delivered at any distance. I studied ballistic calculators and charts quite a while and IMHO, the perfect middle ground for those two conflicting elements was found to be held very securely by the 300 Winchester Magnum. 7mm shoots a little flatter without the delivered energy downrange. It just loses its potency very quickly over distance.
Not that it matters at >600 yard distances, but the 300WM is the finger of death anywhere in that range. I'm sure that with your ability to place the shot, what little the 300 gives up to the 7mm is probably a mute point, but I wanted to mention it anyway, because I am curious about why you would choose one over the other when the 300 has the edge.
I also wanted to offer you a pile of about 140 1X 7mm rem-mag brass that I have been sitting on if you want it.

Thanks Malcolm. PM sent.

[Just Duke]

Duke, just go for the Barret. Might have to take an extra pack horse to carry it, though.

Gear

I'm not a real big fan of the Barrett.

[9.3X62AL]

No real field experience at "clear cut" hunting, some work at long distance on varmints.

Knowing the range, and knowing the rifle's trajectory at those ranges seems to me to be the critical element here. Good bullets matter--NosParts are kind of the standard, Barnes TSX/TTSX do well, but Core-Lokts have taken an awful lot of game animals too. Sometimes we over-think that "magic bullet" bit. The Barnes get the call for Condor Cuddling Country hereabouts, thanks to Cal-DFG, otherwise my Ruger Swede would get good old Hornady #2630 for Kern Plateau muleys.

It is hard to argue against the merits of the 7mm, 300, or 338 Magnums for the purpose you intend. Wide ranges of bullet types and weights abound, almost to the point of bewilderment.

I do not have sufficient confidence in my abilities to place a humane harvesting shot on a fine game animal much past 300 yards, so I won't attempt it. (I'll try to stalk him up.....:) ). What I've done is to develop loads in 2 rifles/calibers that behave ballistically in similar fashion--the 30/06 and its 180 grain Partition, and the 9.3 x 62 with the 250 grain Ballistic Tip. The two loads track very closely, giving me one less thing to think about when afield and the game is sighted.

[1bluehorse]

How many Yakima guys are on this board? LOL

Well I'm 70 miles away from you in Goldendale. I live 6 miles north of town bordering the old Boise timberland..

[horsesoldier]

I hunted there a few years ago, off of monumental rd. So did half of the state apprently!

[dk17hmr]

For late in the season. 300WSM pushing a 200gr at 2840fps.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/IMG_20120219_152729.jpg

Same rifle I hit 1780 yards with awhile back. Im going to start working with the 208gr A-MAX and some Reloader 19, if I can hit 2950fps it is still super sonic at 1 mile.

My plain old 338 win mag knocked down this little one last season at 459 yards.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/elk-3.jpg

225gr Interbond moving 2850fps at the muzzle completely destroyed its heart and put it on the ground within 2 seconds of being hit. I like my 338 win mag because its easy to carry and it just plain works. I am considering putting a 338 win mag barrel on my 300wsm action for long range shooting....a poor mans Lapua.

I have alot of trigger time on both of those rifles at alot further than most people think is even possible. I wont say how far I feel comfortable with them on elk since I got flamed last season for posting how far I shot my elk...but here is a picture of my rifle range to give you an idea of where I practice.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/IMG_20120114_154829.jpg

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=139934

[429421Cowboy]

[QUOTE=dk17hmr;1723505]For late in the season. 300WSM pushing a 200gr at 2840fps.

Finally! Somebody using a rifle to it's potential! I for one love heavy for caliber bullets when we begin talking about long range, i often wonder why so many people insist on using 168gr-ish projectiles in the various .300's when there is so much left at the upper end of the spectrum.
In my own beloved 7mag i top out of bullet weight sooner but at the top end you gain so much in SD and BC why not get some velocity retention instead of going with a 140-150 going mach-chicken at the muzzle?

Sorry for the rant, i just have to get that out there!

Your 459 yard educated shot with your rifle makes me alot less angry than the average idiot that puts less than a box through any rifle all year then tries to make a 200 yard shot on a whole herd of elk.

[dk17hmr]

I see no point in pushing a light weight at crazy velocity either.

Today I tested out the 208gr AMax in my WSM and they are showing promise. At 2833fps (average) 3 shots center to center went into a little less than 1/2 MOA at 500 yards. No point in shooting this rifle closer since I have a 50MOA base on it and the scope is bottomed out and zeroed at 500 yards with 200gr SMK's moving 2840FPS. The 208s at the same speed shot a little higher...about 5 1/2" higher.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/IMG_20120602_153547.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/IMG_20120602_161028.jpg

At that velocity they dont drop below the majic 1000 foot pounds of energy until 1375 yards and dont drop to sub sonic velocity until 2050 yards.

Get some heavies and push them hard thats whats really needed for a long range hunting rifle. Long range is different for everyone you talk to.

[Artful]

Back when I lived in Oregon, I used several rifles. If I was working thru timber to a clear cut I usually carried some thing like Savage 99 in 358 WCF, Marlin Lever in 45-70, or Ruger 77 in 300 win mag - If I had to use 308 WCF I used the 170 grn fp 30-30 bullet to make sure they didn't get far in brush.

For dedicated drive up to the edge of clear cut and camp out waiting for a shot, I had two heavy long barrel guns Rem 700V in 243 and another bolt gun in 375 Weatherby mag (mainly for elk).

If you go early, before season and set up a routine that leaves your scent in the area and they become used to it, you may want spot where you can turn and shoot as I have had them walk up behind me.

[quasi]

Longrange hunting is a contradiction in terms.

[Win86]

Clear cuts? No such thing here, I live in these so called clear cuts and their is not one damn thing clear about them! In my 50 yrs of hunting these incorrectly named clear cuts, can't recall shooting anything over 75 yds and thinking now I was standing on a 6ft wide, 5ft tall stump in doing that! The term "clearcut" is more referred to in logging as in taking off the marketable timber, but they leave all the **** behind to include the brush, tree tops, unsuitable timber laying every which way and rocks sized from 50 gal drums to volkswagons..The NW ain't flat guys and what easterners call hills and mountians is flat land to us, even my cows have shorter legs on one side than the other so they can stand streight. The sad news is; most logging roads have been closed off to vehicles so better bring a pedal bike or be capable of packing in two weeks worth of food, its a long walk now.

Win86

[Larry Gibson]

When I HAVE to hunt the Westside, I take 2 rifles. Win 94 444 Marlin (285 gr LBT @2100 fps) and a Rem 700 30/06 (165 gr Hornaday SP @ 2800 fps) If Im sitting and watching a clear cut (most of the time) I have the 06, when I'm wading/crawling/climbing/falling/cussing through the Rhodedandron, I cary the 444.

I'm NOT a fan of long range "hunting", but the outfit you posted looks like it would be suitable for what you want.

+1 on cup and core bullets for hunting.

Born and raised in western Oregon I've hunted many clear cuts. I'll not get into a discusion of the difference between "hunting" and "shooting" of game but suffice to say I do both and enjoy both. I primarily hunted clear cuts iusing the spot & stalk" method but even then a shot of 200 yards+ was as close as a "stalk" would allow.

Depending on the size and topography of the clear cut and how long since it's been "cleared" (many are over grown in just a few years) you can "hunt" as close as you like or shoot as far away as you like. I prefer to stalk within a reasonable range within my own personal set maximum ranges. As with krag35 i generally used a M94 for hunting the very dense thick suff though mine was most often a 30-30. I also used a bolt action set up for 300+ shots when primarily hunting the clear cuts. I mostly used a .308W with 165 SPBTs or an '06 with the same 165 SPBTs.

+2 on cup & core bullets for hunting with standard cartridges. Magnums benifit from the "premium" type bullets but I consider such bullets as non essential in standard cartridges. BTW; many years ago the 311041 HP became my favorite "premium" bullet for the 30-30:cbpour:

Larry Gibson

[1bluehorse]

I see there's a few fellas from/or have been, in Oregon. I was born and raised there..To those of you who have never been to the West side hunting you should understand that "clear cut hunting" is/or was about all that you could hunt. I paid my "dues" hunting the Tillamook Burn and Elsie areas for both deer and elk for many years. (this was about 35years ago) Steep (and deep)canyons one after the other, (and they all look alike) vine maple everywhere along with Devils Walking Stick, timber and brush so thick you need a flashlight in the middle of the day, will rain at least once a day and the worst sight of all was to be on top of one of the ridges (you were seldom sure which one, as in "the road should be down in the bottom of this one... Nope..where the heck is it.." looking over towards Saddle Mtn and seeing the fog come rollin up the valleys. You may as well hunker down cause you ain't findin your way out in that stuff...You could have a herd of Elk run by all around you and not see a one...you could smell em' but no hair to be seen...oh yeah, I sure miss that country....not..

I will also add thats the only country I've ever been in where there were times I had absoulutley no idea where I was....

[Larry Gibson]

1bluehorse

The Army took me to lots of jungles and rain forests in SEA and Central America. I've yet to find anything as thick, nasty and confusing as the very terrain you describe in the Tillamook burn. Killed my 1st elk there 44 years ago.

Larry Gibson

[1bluehorse]

Larry, my first Roosevelt came out of Buick Canyon, after getting to him I wished I'd left my bullets at home....we ran over 600 ft of rope through the winch on my truck (double loop around spindle) to finally get him to where we could work on him with out rolling to the bottom. [smilie=s:

couple of guys never went hunting with me after that one...

[Larry Gibson]

How well I understand..........I quickly developed the rule to never shoot an elk on the down hill side of a road but, alas, it never worked out that way.........

Larry Gbson

[quilbilly]

Ditto to Win86. A clear cut is only a clearcut for about two years before it is reclaimed by the jungle on the Olympic Peninsula. I did get a shot once in the last 30+ years longer than 75 yards. It was over a two year old "clearcut", across a canyon, about 220 yards, and the deer was asleep. It took me 20 minutes of thinking about it with my muzzleloader over a stump before I took the shot. The deer never woke up and was one of the tenderest eating ever. Otherwise, my average "clearcut" shot is about 40 yards or bow range. Many have been bayonet range where the time to get the shot is well under two seconds.

[onceabull]

Saw the Wet side of Oregon as a timber faller (mostly around the Siuslaw country) and the memories of that summer will go into the ground with me..NO ONE I worked with then would consider deer/elk hunting there (by legal means) To a man they went east to Prineville,John Day,Seneca ,or the Wallowa country..I went there thinking the Manzanita,Poison Oak,and blackberrry jungles in the northern end of the mother lode country was about as bad as hunters could endure, but learned otherwise QUICK... Onceabull

[quilbilly]

One of the things I learned early on here on the rainy side of the Cascades is that the deer are just as lazy as I am and prefer walking the roads to get around rather than through the devils club/blackberry thickets. I get out of the car and walk slowly along the road waving at the road hunters who drive by. Often those road drivers don't see me either. Over the years, I have filled the freezer just by watching my rearview mirror going from clearcut to clearcut. Since blackmails are browsers, often the best food is right next to the road too as the jungle retakes the clearcut.

[Silver Hand]

I have spent the best part of my life hunting and fishing on the Oregon coast. In the brush I carry a short .350 Rem. mag. stoked and with 250 gr. of lead. I have bear hunted with dogs until laws were past to stop it. I know of nothing that will put you in touch with the brush any better than crawling through a bear run in the old growth salmon berry, or being down in the swamps of the Tahkenitch or Siltcoos on your way to a dog bitter bear other than cutting, chasing and rigging.
I shot long range before there ever was a range finder using a Rem. BDL .300 Win. mag. that will blur your eyes when you touch it off. Fitted is a Leupold 3.5-10 AO with Speer 180 Grand slam bullets, anything with a lead tip in those days would get bent and I knew that.
Not much game ever walked away from my discoverer 15-60 power spotting scope. Practical power usage was under 30x due to fog, rain and dim lighting conditions, except for the rare occasion we had snow during elk season. Mostly I counted horns with it. The binoculars I had around my neck put me in touch first.
My son and I in twenty five years never once failed to bring home two black tails, one for each tag. I never shot a doe nor did he. Not once. We have taken our share of Elk also.
My vote would be the 300 Win. mag. or the 300 RUM mag. Having the option of the 26’’ barrel.
It puts elk down just as well as a deer at long range if you can control your emotions when it comes time to kill.

[Just Duke]

We got priced out of the Oregon/Washington market four weeks ago so we surely won't be selling and purchasing a ranch there. On a good note most we own there like the others we looked at for purchase went up 100K almost over night. Very good for us.
Thanks for all the info though.

[Artful]

Good to hear of some market recovery in PNW. RE prices starting to inch up in AZ as well.

[1bluehorse]

We sure haven't seen the increase in property values on the East side of the Cascades here in Washington that you mention. Admittedly Klickitat County is rather repressed as it's very large and sparcely populated and there are still a lot of good buys on homes with property here. As for Texas, haven't been there in many years, (my ex is from Corpus Christi) but I do remember spending a lifetime at Ft. Hood from Nov 65' to March 67'. Went from there to the Naval Air Station in Corpus (hence the ex wife thing) but have been throughout the West side (from Sulphur Springs West) and saw a lot of great country. Also some not so great (to me) didn't think much of the El Paso country at all. Something else to think about, if you take every indigenous species of poisenous bug, snake, or spider, you'll find it in Texas..:holysheep....all that said, I think I'd be quite happy there if there were a little more public land to wander....as I remember the folks there are great.

[Larry Gibson]

Having just sold my house (down $125,000 from the value 3 years ago) here on the west side of Washington and having recieved another tax assessment just after it sold with another $20,000 drop in value (taxes went up though!) and pricing homes/property in AZ, NM, and NV the last 2 - 3 years I haven't seen ANY increase in property values. To the contray I just recieved from my RE agent in LHC new listings for the houses I'm interested in; 4 of them had price reductions this morning.

I think "things are improving" is a propaganda product of the DNC to make OB look better. In reality it's just the oposite.

Larry Gibson

[WinMike]

I've glanced at this thread a couple of times, and with the first 2/3 of the posts advocating this or that magnum cannon, decided my history wasn't relevant. But maybe it is: more than 80% of my deer and elk (I think 40+/- total) were on the wet side of the Cascades, and the two most successful calibers were '06 (deer: 150 gr. Hornady, elk: various 180 gr. Partition) and 280 Rem (mostly 160 gr. Partition or Sierra).

Now that I'm old and grey....and easily wearied....I'm carrying a Mdl '94 in 30-30 (in my Filson mackinaw, arrgh, arrgh), . So far, 3 deer (haven't hunted for elk), all on the edge of brand-new clear-cuts. It's true that most roads are closed after logging is over, so I hunt newly-cut areas; most still haven't had the slash burned nor the roads closed.

I think the furthest shot I've ever made is slightly under 200 yds. Those clear cuts may look like meadows on GoogleEarth, but believe me, there's lots of ravines, stumps, dirt and hills. Not for the faint of heart.

What's funny is the weird looks I get about the Mdl '94. Everyone thinks it's either obsolete, an "Eastern" rifle, or under-powered. Not really [smilie=l: