Gas checks on soft lead vs. hard lead, no check?

[Oreo]

I'm considering the best way to cast a hunting bullet for 10mm. I can get the same mold with or without a gas check base. Now, if I go without a gas check I have to use a harder alloy, but if I use a gas check can I get away with pure, dead-soft lead in full-house loads?

[Love Life]

Interesting question. I plan to run that experiment with the 357 magnum here shortly. I will report back.

[Larry Gibson]

I use soft alloyed cast bullets with GCs for hunting with my .357, .41 and 44 Magnums. I push all three to 1350 - 1450 fps out of 6 - 7 1/2" barreled revolvers and 1600+ fps out of my Contenders. The alloy I most use is COWWs + 2% tin + 50% lead or 16-1 lead Tin. The GC allows excellent accuracy at such velocity and expansion, especially when HP'd. On the terminal end my experience over 40+ years of using soft cast HP'd GC'd bullets is that they kill quicker. To some the difference isn't important, to me it is.

That is not to say I disparage the use harder cast SWC or WFN bullets because I would and do use those also. Just for my serious cast bullet hunting of deer, pigs, bear and elk a softer cast GC'd HP is my choice.

A softer cast, GC'd and mildly HP'd cast bullet is always my choice in rifles for hunting big game.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

i'd go with the gas check in the 10 mm also.
but with a flat point from the softer alloy.
funny, though.
because by softer alloy, i mean one very similar to larry's.

and don't think the same alloy won't work without the gas check, it will take more effort and give you fewer options by not using it though.

[Bret4207]

I'm considering the best way to cast a hunting bullet for 10mm. I can get the same mold with or without a gas check base. Now, if I go without a gas check I have to use a harder alloy, but if I use a gas check can I get away with pure, dead-soft lead in full-house loads?

That's the way advertising hype works, it doesn't necessarily work that way in the real world. I suggest you spend a good deal of time here reading up on fit, both static and dynamic, and proceed with some knowledge under you belt. The 10MM is a high pressure cartridge and fit is of paramount importance with or without the GC regardless of alloy.

Sorry, but there is no magic answer.

[44man]

Larry and Bret say it good.
You are not going to be able to use pure. Alloy until you find what shoots and I would use a gas check for anything except real hard which will not be as good for hunting in a .40.
I might start at 50-50 WW and pure to maybe 75-25. The .40 is pretty fast but you need to remember the fast powders and high pressures.
Maybe just air cooled WW metal will give just enough expansion, somebody should know.
Don't look for instant "splat", you will lose penetration. :coffee:

[bowfishn]

Buffalo Bore sells a 44 Mag Cartridge called a Deer Grenade, it is a 240 gr GCHP with a 12 BHN
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=232
They call this a soft cast, I am using 4 parts ww with 1 part lino that gives me 12.5 BHN. Like many have said the new ww alloy is not the same as it was a few years back. I use this alloy with my 44 mag 295 gr GCHP bullet at better than 1500 fps with no leading, I don't know what it would be like without a GC but with one it shoots fine. If I wanted more penetration for larger game I would just reverse the HP pin and make it a 305 gr flat nose. The same alloy water droped is 25 BHN

OOPS! I just checked my 4 -1 ww - lino mix and it is much higher bhn , I will have to check on my hunting alloy again because it is 12.5 and that was either a 5 - 1 or 6 - 1 will let you know after I check.

Ok I just checked a few more ingots and they all check 12.5 with 4-1 ww-lino the one that checked higher probably cooled faster for some reason but it checks 17 bhn and it was from the same mix. My lino mix is 20 bhn and my ww is 11 4-1 should equal 12.5 - 13 bhn which it does.

[Any Cal.]

What gas checks would be used, and how would a person get them?

[missionary5155]

What gas checks would be used, and how would a person get them?

Good morning Gas Checks are easy to come by. Scroll down to the Sponser Sales section. On the title strip you will see SEARCH. Click on that box and type in Blammer. He has a link where you can order.
Or if you just want to try a few go to Want to Buy and put in a request for say 100 of your caliber. Then there are the local gun shops, reloading shops, internet sales... Just Google Gas Checks for sale. Now if you are in Peru or other end of the pipeline places you just have to be resourceful.
Mike in Peru

[Char-Gar]

Gas checks will cover up many problems that arise with plain base bullets, but they won't compensate for grossly wrong alloy. Pure lead with or without gas checks won't make you happy.

[Gibson]

Good morning Gas Checks are easy to come by. Scroll down to the Sponser Sales section. On the title strip you will see SEARCH. Click on that box and type in Blammer. He has a link where you can order.
Or if you just want to try a few go to Want to Buy and put in a request for say 100 of your caliber. Then there are the local gun shops, reloading shops, internet sales... Just Google Gas Checks for sale. Now if you are in Peru or other end of the pipeline places you just have to be resourceful.
Mike in Peru

Had not noticed "Blammer". Thank you.

[Any Cal.]

I had seen Blammer's post, but don't see a forty cal check anywhere.

[Gibson]

I had seen Blammer's post, but don't see a forty cal check anywhere.

Maybe an option:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=152227

[Oreo]

Gas checks will cover up many problems that arise with plain base bullets, but they won't compensate for grossly wrong alloy. Pure lead with or without gas checks won't make you happy.Thank you. This is what I wanted to know.

Follow-up question:

Is the difference in acceptable alloy hardness worth going with a gas chech mold in order to be able to hunt & shoot the softer alloy? Or will a just hard enough plain base bullet still have good expansion on game?
(Maybe wrong subforum for this question?)

[Char-Gar]

Oreo... I know nothing about 10mm handguns..nothing..zero.

That said, at hangun velocities, bullet shape trumps any hope of expansion. A 10mm bullet with a good meplat should do they job, if placed in the right place. I would just delete "expansion" from my thinking.

[dnotarianni]

I load 500 S&W mag with 10-12 bhn and a gas check and pushing 1400fps I get no leading.
Dave

[Bret4207]

Oreo... I know nothing about 10mm handguns..nothing..zero.

That said, at hangun velocities, bullet shape trumps any hope of expansion. A 10mm bullet with a good meplat should do they job, if placed in the right place. I would just delete "expansion" from my thinking.

Well said. At handgun velocities in a high pressure round....soft enough for expansion is Phd level cast work. Start with a FN design, clip on WW alloy and see what the gun wants. A GC won't make up for poor fit, but it will make things exponentially easier.

[Larry Gibson]

That said, at hangun velocities, bullet shape trumps any hope of expansion. A 10mm bullet with a good meplat should do they job, if placed in the right place. I would just delete "expansion" from my thinking.

I have to completely disagree. There is absolutely no reason on earth that expansion can not be had, indeed should be expected, at 10mm velocities with a soft cast and GC'd bullet. I get very reliable expansion with GC'd HPs out of my 9mm and 45 ACP with velocities in the 900 fps range. Absolutely no reason you can't do the same with the 10mm and a GC'd soft cast bullet. At 1200 fps out of my .357, .41 and .44 magnums expansion is guarentee'd. Considering the 10mm can push a bullet above the same 1200 fps why shouldn't a soft cast HP expand?

Yes, you can push a hard cast PB'd bullet to those velocities with very good accuracy and no expansion. A good WFN is the best choice but will your 10mm feed a WFN? If not then a conventional shaped nose that will feed on a GC"d soft cast bullet and it will give expansion for hunting with the correct alloy. Straight WWs is not that allot BBTW. You want expansion from your 10mm? then get a GC'd HP mould and go for it. It's not rocket science nor is it difficult to do or get.

Larry Gibson

[Char-Gar]

Larry...Are we talking hollow point now? The OP never mentioned hollow points. Had he mentioned hollow points, the answer would have been different and you would not have anything to correct. I gave up mind reading long ago, and just try and deal with the information given. He was talking about using a gas check for a pure lead bullet and hoping for expansion.

[williamwaco]

Gas checks are a waste of money on any handgun bullet.

I have been loading .357 and .44 Magnum maximum loads for 50 years using alloys in the range of BNH 9 +/- 1 with plain base bullets.

I have not loaded the 10mm but these same alloys work flawlessly in the 9mm, .40S&W, and the .45ACP.

I would not recommend dead-soft for anything but 700 fps target loads. in revolvers.

.

[Blammer]

forty cal GC's are "not" common.

I have or can get one, but it would be helpful to know your GC shank diameter so I can figure out if it will work for you or not.
.378 is the MAXIMUM GC shank dia that you can have and have this GC work. If the GC shank is .379 it won't fit.

I don't think GC's are wasted on handgun boolits, on the contrary, I think they are a very good idea and necessary in some instances.

Say for example my 357 mag, my 41 mag, or my 44mag handgun. Without the GC I would not be able to get the great results I get. :)