Melting stick on wheel weight question.

[Muddydogs]

So yesterday I cleaned the wheel weight lead out of my Lee 10 pound pot and refilled it with stick on wheel weight ingots to make Muzzle loader bullets. My muffin tin ingots are a little to big to fit in the Lee pot and I had a hard time getting them to melt, so much so that I melted 2 on the hot plate and dumped the lead into my pot.

Once I got the pot full it seamed slow to come up to temp and I had the heat control set on max to keep the pot at 700 degrees. It seamed that if I tried to turn down the pot the lead got stiff fairly fast. When casting with standard wheel weights I have the heat control set on 7 which keeps the pot just under 700 degrees and I cast great pistol bullets.

So does pure lead need more heat then WW lead? Did I burn out the element in my pot by waiting to long for the lead to melt?

[44man]

I found most of the new stick on weights are ZINC, I toss them out now.

[clintsfolly]

you need more heat as pure has a higher melting temp. Have fun Clint

[Roundnoser]

Like 44Man said...I'd make sure your SOWWs are not contaminated. If you are sure that they are good, I would say that your wieghts will melt at close to the same temperature. It should certainly melt at 700 degrees.

[williamwaco]

Add a little tin. About half ounce of tin for each 5 pounds of stick on wheel weights.

It will not materially affect the hardness but it will really improve the casting quailty.

[44man]

Add a little tin. About half ounce of tin for each 5 pounds of stick on wheel weights.

It will not materially affect the hardness but it will really improve the casting quailty.
Oatmeal in the pot is not helped with tin! :mrgreen:
Most of those things are painted so you will raise the heat---WRONG!
Lead melts at 620* but zinc melts at 786*. Other alloys melt at a lower temp like plain WW's. I alloy WW metal with antimony and tin at 600*.
Either way, anything that floats at 600 to 620* should go in the trash.
It is hard to say how much zinc a batch can tolerate but I feel even one chunk in a pot full is too much.
It is really safe to lose the metal and just toss stick on junk.

[Muddydogs]

More heat and tin, ok thanks guys I will try that.

Well since I got about 30 pounds of lead out of the stick on's I would say there far from junk and should be tossed. When I melted the stick on's I kept the temp down as to not melt anything that shouldn't, I got more zinc in the clip on batch then the stick on's.

My biggest worry was I burnt the element out of the pot not having enough lead in it. Guess I am not sure if the pot needs to be so full so the element doesn't over heat or not.

[famdoc2892]

Just a quick question, do you keep side-cutter pliers handy when sorting weights? You can nip-and-twist pure or WW lead, you can't put much of a mark on zinc weights.

[famdoc2892]

It is really safe to lose the metal and just toss stick on junk.

44man, let me help take that nasty stick-on stuff off your hands! I've got just the pot..., er, place to put it! ;-)

[dmize]

FWIW the Zinc stick ons are really easy to identify, They are ususally in individual 1/4 oz pieces and then stuck on the tape.

[fredj338]

Pure lead needs a bit more heat to melt than an alloy. I NEVER empty a pot completely. Leave a 1# or 2# in the bottom always, this shortens melt time considerably & doesn't affect your bullets much if at all. It also keep the Lee pot from dripping as contaminates get into the pour spout.

[44man]

More heat and tin, ok thanks guys I will try that.

Well since I got about 30 pounds of lead out of the stick on's I would say there far from junk and should be tossed. When I melted the stick on's I kept the temp down as to not melt anything that shouldn't, I got more zinc in the clip on batch then the stick on's.

My biggest worry was I burnt the element out of the pot not having enough lead in it. Guess I am not sure if the pot needs to be so full so the element doesn't over heat or not.
Can you make boolits from the stuff? That will be the answer.
It is very hard to burn out a pot and even empty will not hurt them.
Not like a water heater element that must have water over them. You can use a thermometer to bring your lead to 600* or until the lead just melts and scoop off the meal. Do NOT flux first. Pure is forgiving and anything that floats should be removed.

[Muddydogs]

Can you make boolits from the stuff? That will be the answer.
It is very hard to burn out a pot and even empty will not hurt them.
Not like a water heater element that must have water over them. You can use a thermometer to bring your lead to 600* or until the lead just melts and scoop off the meal. Do NOT flux first. Pure is forgiving and anything that floats should be removed.

Ya I made bullets from the lead, 435 grain TC maxi balls. they can out very nice. Had the mold for probably 20 years and this is its first use.

Cool thanks for the info about the pot, thats what I was wondering.

I won't be emptying the pot anymore. I have a 20 pound on the way that will be the main casting pot and the 10 pound is going to stay the pure lead pot at least for now.

[44man]

Ya I made bullets from the lead, 435 grain TC maxi balls. they can out very nice. Had the mold for probably 20 years and this is its first use.

Cool thanks for the info about the pot, thats what I was wondering.

I won't be emptying the pot anymore. I have a 20 pound on the way that will be the main casting pot and the 10 pound is going to stay the pure lead pot at least for now.
Great, they should be OK. One way to know is when you load to see if they are too hard to get in the gun.
I once had some pure that got some zinc in it and boolits looked galvanized like a rain gutter but it cleaned right up at 600*-620*. Any zinc left did no harm.
The batch I told about seemed that almost every weight was zinc. I had a bunch of strips, cut off things, that were lead but the painted ones ruined it all.
We need a lead magnet! :mrgreen:

[JeffinNZ]

When I am sorting WW if in doubt I do the drop on concrete test. Lead goes 'clunk', zinc goes 'chink'.

[williamwaco]

Oatmeal in the pot is not helped with tin! :mrgreen:
Most of those things are painted so you will raise the heat---WRONG!
Lead melts at 620* but zinc melts at 786*. Other alloys melt at a lower temp like plain WW's. I alloy WW metal with antimony and tin at 600*.
Either way, anything that floats at 600 to 620* should go in the trash.
It is hard to say how much zinc a batch can tolerate but I feel even one chunk in a pot full is too much.
It is really safe to lose the metal and just toss stick on junk.


44 ? ? ?

I think you are responding to the wrong question.
Your response is accurate but it does not fit the question.
Nothing was mentioned about zinc or oatmeal.
The question was about casting pure lead.


So does pure lead need more heat then WW lead?

[Bob Krack]

That is what I was going to say, William, but you beat me to the punch.

Muddydogs, are you using a thermometer or how are you arriving at the temperature of the pot/metal?

Pure Lead, otherwise known as "nearly un-obtainium" melts at 621 degrees F. whereas most wheel weights (without major contaminants) melt at from 588 F. to the low 500's.

I have or had 4 Lee pots, 3 10s and 1 20 and the numbers on the dial was only useful as a reference point. Thermometer did not reflect the indications at all. 4, 6, and 7 all were 630 by the thermometer on one or the other of the 4 pots.

You are not likely to find "pure" Lead nor closer than 99.9% even with a certified sample. BUT that has very little to do with your question.

Simple answer, yes pure or nearly pure Lead does require more temperature than most any other alloy, certainly more than Lead, Tin, and Antimony (wheel-weights).

Keep having fun,

Bob

[Muddydogs]

All right guys, thanks for the info. Good to know my pot is ok.

Yes I use a thermometer in my pot and with WW's my Lee 10 pound pot temp settings run true to temp. When the pot is set on 7 my thermometer says 700 ish. Now with stick on WW the pot is running full blast and the thermometer is telling me 700 ish. I found I cast good WW bullets around 650 but keep the pot set at 700 that way I can add the sprue back in or a 1/2 pound ingot with very little effect on casting. Now with stick on WW if I added much more then the sprue to the pot the temp fell to much to cast well.

[44man]

Maybe I did miss some things but excuse my age! :mrgreen:
At normal pot settings there will be difference in melting and even at 600*, lead will melt no matter what alloy. Cycle times will take care of a small amount of heat.
It does take higher temps to CAST pure and I go to 800*. With some tin, heat can be reduced a little and with antimony and tin you can go pretty low. I don't know if the alloy is more slippery or if the other metals reduce oxidation but it flows better.
Strange that antimony with a high melting point reduces the temp but I alloy pure antimony into WW metal at 600*. With the right flux it flows right into the other metal. So will zinc with flux so to remove zinc, don't flux, it floats and forms some nasty junk on the surface.
That batch I had was oatmeal clear to the bottom of the pot at very high heat, propane. Putting a spoon in it was like grainy jello. To even pour it into ingots took a lot of flux and it still glopped out instead of a stream. Might have had some aluminum too.
The answer is YES, pure takes more heat to cast then it takes to just melt it.
What happens if you add tin to pure contaminated with zinc? Would anyone waste tin?

[milprileb]

Just a note: with the amount of tire stems, stick on WW, and other nonsense I have suffered with in my dutch oven when smelting, its taken a long time but I have finally got off my rear end and decided to examine and cull what goes in my dutch oven. Yesterday , that was the last day I roasted rubber tire stems and I am no longer taking the risk of zinc going into my fluxed
metal.

Quick learners had this focus on day 1: I have been lazy but no more. A smoke generator would pale to compete with me yesterday and my neighbors want me incarcerated for EPA violations against humanity.

[PhatForrest]

Just a quick question, do you keep side-cutter pliers handy when sorting weights? You can nip-and-twist pure or WW lead, you can't put much of a mark on zinc weights.

I just got my first 3 gallon bucket of WWs today (already have a half ton stash of ingots that were given to me). I went through every one of those weights with a set of dykes. It took a while, but I really got a feel for what each metal feels like.

[sfcairborne]

so I take it the tape on the back of the tape on wheel weights will just melt off and become scum?

[cbrick]

so I take it the tape on the back of the tape on wheel weights will just melt off and become scum?

More like goo. Really nasty smelly smoky goo, it's the rubber & glue in the tape. I highly recommend NOT melting the tape in your casting pot but instead get a separate pot to melt down the raw weights & pour into fluxed ingots.

I was gonna say welcome to CastBoolits but I see you've been here for awhile. Anyone mention that you spend too much time on the computer? :kidding:

Rick

[rhead]

Great, they should be OK. One way to know is when you load to see if they are too hard to get in the gun.
I once had some pure that got some zinc in it and boolits looked galvanized like a rain gutter but it cleaned right up at 600*-620*. Any zinc left did no harm.
The batch I told about seemed that almost every weight was zinc. I had a bunch of strips, cut off things, that were lead but the painted ones ruined it all.
We need a lead magnet! :mrgreen:


Can one of the modern metal detectors be tuned closely enough to chirp on Zinc and not on Lead? i do not own one.

[dondiego]

rhead - I have a couple of metal detectors and I doubt that you could tune the detector to determine a difference. They are both pretty dense.