Making .308 Swaged bullets

[Crawdaddy]

My intentions are to purchase the necessary dies to swage .308 bullets out of copper tubing.

There is so much information here that I am having trouble determining exactly what I need.

I will be buying BT Snipers dies.

I know I need the copper tubing forming die. What else?

[Reload3006]

that would be all you need maybe a chop saw to cut the tubing. something to debur with.

[Grandpas50AE]

First, you need a press that is capable of swaging .30 cal. [I]heavy jacket[I] bullets, which means a beefed-up realoading press OR a swaging press. For .30 cal. bullets, you will probably be using 5/16" copper tubing, which is a bit thicker and tougher than the average guilding metal jacket. Perhaps the ram improvement kit BT carries will do it, I'm not sure but he should be able to tell you (it is for an RCBS Rockchucker IIRC).

After the press, you will need something to cut the copper tubing as 3006 pointed out. Deburring tool to cleean up the cut. Jacket forming dies which I think BT makes (mine happen to be Dave Corbin dies from 25 years ago) with the applicable punches.

Point forming die and punch. Core seating die and punch.

Optionally a core swage die and punch (to ensure consistency). Some folks just cast cores straight into the jacket, which is fine for hunting I would imagine. However, if you are going to cut cores from lead wire, a core swage die is almost a must have item.

That should just about cover it. Oh, and swage lube (several vendors who support this site can provide this at a very good price).

Good luck, and happy swaging.

[DukeInFlorida]

One of the very first things that you have to decide is what you plan on using for raw materials. The dies that BT Sniper would build for you are specific to the raw material.

In other words, there is no such thing as a "universal set of .308 dies" which will make .308 bullets from anything you want to make them from.

A set to make them from copper or brass tubing would be one set. A set to make them from J4 jackets would be a different set. A set to make them from 5.7X28 FN brass would be a different set.

Brian is going to ask you those questions right off the bat, so you should be prepared with those answers.

If the answer is copper tubing, as you say in your opening post, then you'll need something to cut tubing into pieces of the right size.

You'll need some luibe for the swaging, and maybe even a way to anneal the various steps along the way. You'll need lead wire and a way to chop into pieces for the cores. Or, you can buy the pieces chopped for you, but that's more $$$.

Brian should be able to supply everything else that you need.

[GRUMPA]

To the OP, I'm kinda glad you asked that, that thought has been drifting in and out of my mind lately. But for me and my very thin wallet it's becoming a toss up between 06 or 44mag dies at the moment.

If BT ever gave a 2 for 1 sale that choice would be rather simple. (you listening BT) [smilie=1:

I want my 06 to expand quickly, and so the choice of what jacket material that's readily available and expands rapidly is what I'm after, and I'm talking at 1700FPS+. I want something for the 06 and the 300mag.

[Reload3006]

To the OP, I'm kinda glad you asked that, that thought has been drifting in and out of my mind lately. But for me and my very thin wallet it's becoming a toss up between 06 or 44mag dies at the moment.

If BT ever gave a 2 for 1 sale that choice would be rather simple. (you listening BT) [smilie=1:

I want my 06 to expand quickly, and so the choice of what jacket material that's readily available and expands rapidly is what I'm after, and I'm talking at 1700FPS+. I want something for the 06 and the 300mag.

if you want a 30 caliber bullet that expands quickly you want to make bullets from j4 or sierra commercial jackets. Or you can make or buy a jacket cutting die what will slit in 4 places the ojive of the bullet so its easier to expand from material like tubing.

as far as knowing what you need in advance is not entirely truel you can start off with j4 jackets and then add to your set to make copper tubing jackets or rifle brass jackets. the biggest obstacle would be getting the right core seating punch so you dont have lead blow by as your trying to expand your bullets out to size.


as far as copper tubing goes you need a round over die, a draw die and a bottom flattening punch that you would use with your core seat die.

[GRUMPA]

Well the whole trick to this for me was to get by with doing it myself. BT's whole concept of forming spent brass from empty cases to me is a real winner.

Personally I'm not to thrilled with having to buy what I need from a specialized middle man that at a whim can jack the prices in either direction he/they choose.

I like the somewhat easy to obtain approach to things as far as jackets are concerned.

I've even entertained finding a very small lathe and thinning the jacket material down to insure a rapidly expanding home made projectile.

[BT Sniper]

I'll see if I can shed some light too.

Looks like it has been said but in case there is still cornfusion :)

The 30 cal dies I offer will work with whatever you chose to use for a jacket so long as you have the proper fitting base punch for the core seat step. As reloader 3006 stated a tight and proper fit of the punch is needed. It must fit the inside of the jacket perfectly so you can seat the core without the lead bleeding around a loose fitting punch. Of course different thinkness jackets will require different diameter punches to seat the core inside the jacket.

I think the thickness of the 5.7 brass and the Sierra jackets are pretty close and might just work with the same punch. I have some of the Sierra jackets and I'll check. The copper tubing is going to be thicker of course and would need a smaller punch. No problems setting up the dies for your specific needs or supplying more then one punch. SIMPLE!

Here is what you need/what I offer for the 30 cal bullets

Point form die
Core seat die
5/16 copper tube jacket forming die
Sizing die to reduce either copper tubing jackets or FN 5.7 brass

I can also offer a specific core swage dies for either jacket option.

If you wish to use Sierra jackets all you need is the basic 2 die set (point form and core seat).

If you want to use sized 5.7 brass add the sizing die.

If you want to use copper tubing add the sizing die and copper tube jacket die.

As for expansion....well....... that's a interesting debate as to which one is better????? I don't know myself. I suppose I need to slow the bullets down a bit to test them since the 300WM and 180 grain bullets @ 3100FPS tend to make them all expand rather nicely :)

let's see if I can find some pics....

I'll do better! Here is a good thread I started a while back with my first range results from 30 cal bullets both factory and my own. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=61720&page=2 post number 26 has some great pics!

and here is a thread on my custom 30 cal die intial testing and results.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=109892

here is 5.7 brass jackets on the left and Sierra jacketed bullets on the right
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/308s007.jpg

here is a bonded 5.7 jacketed bullet that was formed in an old SAS die. notice it was practiacly turned inside out! Shot from a 300 WM at 3100FPS into wet newspaper
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/bonded308003.jpg

some sectioned bullets
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/308s004.jpg

Here is my best group to date with the 5.7 jacketed 30 cal from my 300WM.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050132.jpg

I have shot severial groups under .75 moa with 3 different 300WM riffles and taken two NE Oregon mule deer with this bullet now. Last year's deer was at 235 yrds! the bullet has made a believer out of me and I have collected about 10 gallons worth of the FN5.7x28 brass now for jackets.

as far as expansion..... I think the 5.7 for a jacket is a very good one! Expands quick and has a solid brass base to keep on going and crushing threw whatever gets in it's way. Probably perfect for medium ligth skined game. For elk I might chose a stronger option.

The copper tubing while thick is very soft. I'm sure it would expand well too. Of course when you make your own you can control all the factors. Use a slightly harder lead core (up to wheel weight in my dies but no harder then 10 BNH) or bond teh core for stronger bullets. Us pure lead for better expansion or keep the tip hollow, or use ski plugs for balistic tips, or a cannalure to control expansion or dual cores of varrying harness, or , or, or, etc. The choices are all yours when you make your own.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[Crawdaddy]

To the OP, I'm kinda glad you asked that, that thought has been drifting in and out of my mind lately. But for me and my very thin wallet it's becoming a toss up between 06 or 44mag dies at the moment.

If BT ever gave a 2 for 1 sale that choice would be rather simple. (you listening BT) [smilie=1:

I want my 06 to expand quickly, and so the choice of what jacket material that's readily available and expands rapidly is what I'm after, and I'm talking at 1700FPS+. I want something for the 06 and the 300mag.

Grumpa, I can help with the 44 mag. All you need is a 7x57 mauser neck sizing die, your 44 mag dies and a .429 sizer. You will also need a core mold. I made one out of aluminum from a local metal shop. Forgot one thing, I made a hollow point punch for the top of the die.

What I do is

Anneal 40 cal brass
Run the 44 mag expander die to the base of the 40 brass
Insert core
Draw it down by compressing in the 7x57 neck sizing die
Size it

I get 3 inch groups at 100 yards with my rifle and about the same at 50 with my pistol.

I won't be winning any bench rest competitions but it is a great hunting bullet. I even shot a prairie dog at 80 paces with it.

Now go buy BT's 30 caliber setup.

I make .458 in a similar manner using a 45 acp expander die and 308 neck sizing die. I get similar accuracy.

I just can't figure out how to do the 30 cal with an ogive. I'll gladly pay for BT's dies for it. That is unless I have an epiphany soon.

Pics upon request.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Grandpas50AE]

Reload3006,
The copper water tubing jackets will allow for very good expansion if annealed to dead-soft. If doing this, it is a good idea to bond the cores (this is what I do for the hunting bullets, but I don't for practice ammo). Of course which stock you start with factors into this, but I started with the "medium" instead of "hard" tubing, and it works very well in my 300WM.