To He** with this junk 4500

[tek4260]

Just lubed a few of the Mihec 475's and got that nice uneven line around the top of the boolit letting me know that the slop in my new(around 1K-2k sizes) is causing my boolits to be sized off center or however you want to say it. Can't help accuracy any...

Went ahead and ordered a custom .476 sizer from Lee to go with my 44 and 45 sizers. Slower, but at least they will be concentric. Plus I kind of enjoy pan lubing :)

I'd imagine there will be a Star in my future. No more ragged 4500's though....

[cheese1566]

How much $$ ?

[geargnasher]

Just lubed a few of the Mihec 475's and got that nice uneven line around the top of the boolit letting me know that the slop in my new(around 1K-2k sizes) is causing my boolits to be sized off center or however you want to say it. Can't help accuracy any...

Went ahead and ordered a custom .476 sizer from Lee to go with my 44 and 45 sizers. Slower, but at least they will be concentric. Plus I kind of enjoy pan lubing :)

I'd imagine there will be a Star in my future. No more ragged 4500's though....

I have one of those too. Whoever designed it needs to spend an eternity in a very warm place trying to size endless bucketfulls of 6.5mm Cruise Missiles in one without bending them. Oh, and the boolits need to be made of pure lead. :brokenima

Gear

[Lefty SRH]

I was quite disappointed with my "custom" LEE .476 die. The darn hole wasn't even round. The boolits were coming out .475 on one side and measured 90 degrees from that they were .476.

[Lefty SRH]

Tek, post a pic of that MIHec .475 boolit please. The only one I cast is an Accurate 48-420S, BIG LFN design.

[tek4260]

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/DSCN0579.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/DSCN0550.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/Untitled-3.jpg

[tek4260]

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/Untitled-5.jpg

see the uneven line caused by the 4500's misalignment. The one to the right of it was sized in the push thru Lee.

[Lefty SRH]

I used to get a few of those and I then ground my top punch completely flat, no more little cup in the top punch. It really helped!

[Bret4207]

What Lefty said. Loosen up the TP lock screw and see if it still does it. Try turning the sizer die too and see if that changes anything. Could be the die body is cockeyed.

FWIW, the one 4500 I saw looked like a pretty poor piece of workmanship. I like my 45 better than my 450 and my 450 seems worlds better than that 4500 I saw.

[Lefty SRH]

You don't have to change top punches as often if he boolit has has a flat nose. That's mainly why I cut the cup portion off my top punch. I use the same one for .44 Keith .45 colt SAA .45 colt LFN Ruger only boolit and my . 480 LFN.
That trick I found by accident. After flattening the punch I noticed I had less off centered .480s.

[Walter Laich]

The Professor on this site makes flat top punches with a O-ring to hold it in. Went that route and am happy with that decision

[Recluse]

FWIW, the one 4500 I saw looked like a pretty poor piece of workmanship. I like my 45 better than my 450 and my 450 seems worlds better than that 4500 I saw.

Ditto. I have two 45s, next lubesizer I get will be a star and that will be for the high-volume boolits I cast and lube. I'll never get rid of the 45s--and I'll never own a 4500.

Those are two cases when I CAN say "never" and be very confident.

:coffee:

[tek4260]

I may have to try grinding one flat. No great loss in messing with a top punch since, as is, it will sit under the bench.

[tek4260]

On second thought, I just emailed the Professor. Always nice to be able to support a fellow forum member and hopefully resolve my problem.

[462]

An excellent decision.

A cupped top punch, filled with either hot melt glue or JB Weld and moulded with an oiled boolit nose, makes for precision alignment.

[GabbyM]

Few years back when I purchased my Lyman 4500. Had to immediately send it to Lyman to straighten the linkage up. Handle didn’t square up with the body. When returned things were lined up. Plenty of play was and is still in the fit between body bore and ram. But if I hold the handle centerline then pull straight down I can achieve excellent results. Only use it for gas checked rifle bullets. I’ve thought about making a threaded plug to accept Lyman / RCBS style nose punches. Sounds good until you try that with long boolits. With a Star you can’t eject a bullet and with a long rifle bullet you can’t load another on top to push the last one out. Same issue if you try running them nose first. Flat out long skinny rifle bullets don’t work in a Star type sizer. I can do bullets like 150 grain flat nose gas checked 30 caliber nose first in a Star and run them just like pistol bullets. Spitzer bullets or long bullets like 311299 forget it. So I use the Lyman. Have an old RCBS bought off pobay that was worn out when I got it and has more play than my Lyman 4500. Linkage on the RCBS is more stout. Would like to hear if owners of new purchase RCBS sizers consider them tight tolerance. If I were to start over the Saeco would be in my sights. But I’ve never even seen one in person.

[Old Caster]

I bought a new 4500 about 10 years ago and it was sloppy so I drilled out the tube where the ram slides to 1-1/16 and made another ram that was the size of the original on the lathe and put an end on it that fit perfectly in a 45 sizer. I then made a brass tube that was a little smaller than the 1-1/16 with the inside a tight fit on the homemade ram. I made the brass tube longer for more support and had to put notches on top so the handles wouldn't hit. I was using this sizer for a 430 grain .410 caliber bullet and made it so this size bullet would just make it under the brass tube. With the new homemade ram stuck in the 45 sizer so it would be perfectly centered, I glued the brass tube in with JB weld. After it was dry, I coaxed the homemade ram out and installed the original in and it has worked perfectly ever since. I have a Star and an old Herters but if I want perfection I use the modified Lyman 4500 because I now trust it the most. If anyone wants more measurements on what I did let me know and I can go downstairs and measure what I did and post it. -- Bill--

[geargnasher]

I have long thought that bushing the hole and making a slightly smaller ram that fit the hole better would be a decent fix, but that sounds like a better way to do it than I had in mind. What the thing really needs is a whole new design with a ram about twice as long and a second support above the handle, and a totally different linkage setup.

Gear

[Lefty SRH]

Does this uneven sizing line Tek is frustrated with really affect accuracy? I'm sure it depends on how uneven it is but how much will it affect accuracy?

The uneven boolits I've had still grouped well for me. Is this more of an eye sore?

[tek4260]

Roll them on a flat surface and watch the nose. Not sure how it affects accuracy either as they are spinning enough to overcome the imbalance... I think...

[geargnasher]

A boolit that doesn't enter the barrel straight won't fly straight.

Gear

[Recluse]

Does this uneven sizing line Tek is frustrated with really affect accuracy? I'm sure it depends on how uneven it is but how much will it affect accuracy?

Well, it sure ain't gonna help accuracy. . . :)

:coffee:

[Old Caster]

Something we don't think about is the fact that we are at the mercy of how a bullet wants to go through a sizing die because a die is tapered and as it goes, it is swaged down and takes the path of least resistance. If a perfect top punch is used for the nose of the bullet, the front will be centered because it has no choice but the rear is pushed in and the bullet can somewhat cock the way it wants. In my Star, I generally push them in nose first with a flat punch for the back. I even put a hole in my flat punches so a bump by the sprue cut can't affect the possible tipping. With this method, the bullet goes the path of least resistance and there is no guarantee that it is centered. I haven't found any difference between a top punch and a bottom punch and think the deciding factor is how perfect the mould is and how perfect the fill out is. Next is how much does it matter anyway because most shooting out of a pistol is not that critical. Like I said before, if one bullet shoots 4 inches at 50 yards and another shoots 2, the difference is double but only a bullseye or silouhette shooter, some other competitors, or hunter could possibly care. The difference in which bullet you are shooting in a certain gun, and what velocity, is way more important than how it got sized. -- Bill --

[Casting Timmy]

I would tend to agree with others, if it's a handgun I think it's not really affecting accuracy. I noticed with all my pistols that it's really how much effort I do with the gun that affects accuracy the greatest.

[tek4260]

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/DSCN1105.jpg

[tek4260]

Reckon it worked on my 475 :) See the problem with the boolit using a regular top punch....

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/DSCN1108.jpg

[RobS]

The flat punch helps a great deal and I've also noted that lifting the handle up to just bring the center rod of the die up enough to put in the next unsized bullet helps keep the boolit's base aligned with the die better. The downward pressure is quite a bit and if the boolit starts a bit off center in the die from the mouth radius it may not slide over and center up as well when being pushed down into the die upon sizing/lubing. I see more of an issue with boolits not sliding over when using Lyman sizing dies because of the cup machined into the top of the center rod.

I had a LBT LFN and with Veral's tangent ogive on 45 bullets (maybe a tangent ogive on all his LFN designs) it was a PITA without a flat nose punch and working the die center rod up just enough to get the next unsized bullet to start in the die straight.

[tek4260]

The flat punch helps a great deal and I've also noted that lifting the handle up to just bring the center rod of the die up enough to put in the next unsized bullet helps keep the boolit's base aligned with the die better. The downward pressure is quite a bit and if the boolit starts a bit off center in the die from the mouth radius it may not slide over and center up as well when being pushed down into the die upon sizing/lubing. I see more of an issue with boolits not sliding over when using Lyman sizing dies because of the cup machined into the top of the center rod.

I had a LBT LFN and with Veral's tangent ogive on 45 bullets (maybe a tangent ogive on all his LFN designs) it was a PITA without a flat nose punch and working the die center rod up just enough to get the next unsized bullet to start in the die straight.

Don't you have to fully lift the rod to eject the sized boolit?

[monge]

Nice gun tek more pix and info please!:hijack:

[RobS]

Don't you have to fully lift the rod to eject the sized boolit?

No you don't have to; it depends on the die and the radius of the mouth. RCBS dies are cut more generously than the Lyman dies so a person doesn't have t lift up the rod as far on a RCBS vs a Lyman. It's not hard to do kind of like getting use to adjusting the pressure screw for the lube.

[C.F.Plinker]

I have made new bottom punches for 3 of my sizing dies in order to drill holes through them and to countersink the top of the punch. I have found that if I make the punch 0.050 to 0.100 inches shorter than the die body it lets me sit the boolit down into the die before sizing it and will also allow me to easily remove it when I am done.

[tek4260]

In the interest of fairness, I'll change my stance on the 4500 being complete junk. I got my Lee 476 in and was unable to size the boolits in it. I cast them several months ago and I guess they have hardened a good bit. I'll re-melt them and cast again then size when they cool and see what happens. They are .480" as cast and I guess the hardness and .004 sizing is more than I realized(along with the surface area compared to a 44 or 45). I believe some fresh cast won't be as much of a strain and the misalignment won't be as bad. We shall see soon!

[Lefty SRH]

another thing I noticed about my .480's is: I use a RCBS sizing die at .476". The pin in the die is FLAT on the boolit end as compared to all my other dies which are H&I brand and the pins are dished. I have taken my RCBS die pin to work and turned a slight angle dishing it. Haven't tested it yet for "un-even" boolits but Its something I noticed. We shall see.

[geargnasher]

The lack of "dish" is my chief complaint with RCBS dies, right after my gripe about the bases being a few thousandths too large to seat in a Lyman 45. Somebody here, I think it was Buckshot, mentioned drilling a relief hole all the way through the "I" ejector to vent air and any trapped lube out the bottom.

Gear