.22 Swage die set...

[marten]

Have completed the die set,
Left to right;

De-rim die and punch. (The 'form' is removable as I only wanted to harden that
rather than the whole die body)

Floating top punch holder.

Core swage die. (Bottom punch is in the press - not shown)

Core seat die.
Core seat hollow point punch.

Point form die.
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/22BulletSwageSet.jpg

[MIBULLETS]

Very nice! Is this for a Corbin S Press?

[marten]

Very nice! Is this for a Corbin S Press?

Yes for an S press, did not want to make the dies for a reloading press seeing that I have a Swaging press!

[marten]

Picture of result - rimfire jacket.

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/DSCF0329Small.jpg

In the process of making a 6T ogive die, have some .704" jackets to use up!

[Utah Shooter]

Very slick look projectile there. How do they shoot for you?

[blaser.306]

Are you single point cutting your threads or usinf a UNEF die! Also what material is being used ?

[marten]

Are you single point cutting your threads or usinf a UNEF die! Also what material is being used ?
Single point cutting, 24TPI full form.
Material is called Sliver Steel similar to your W1 O1 steels.

Silver Steel (http://www.westyorkssteel.com/silver_steel.html)

Have not shot any yet, need some lead wire - Just testing with some lead scraps.
Nadgered my wire squeezer... I guess 22 tons was enough to say bye bye!
Will have to make another!

[dancingbear41]

That is a very nice looking bullet. I marvel at the talent people have to make such precise tools.
Praise over, I am now seeking some advice. A number of years ago I baught a set of .22 swaging dies dies from an outfit called Sport Flite, no longer trading I believe. I have managed to swage some quite nice bullets from .22 jackets that shoot to approx. 1MOA from my Remington .222 varmint rifle. The frustrating part is the large number of failures I get at the final stage of swaging the bullet. Considering the amount of work put in up to that stage it is very disappointing.

What is the technique for forming the bullet? Is it a very gently movement into the die or a swift one? The literature I have read doesn't sem to explain this at all clearly.

I am limited to jackets made from .22 brass. I live in the UK and I have never seen .22 jackets for sale. I did come across a quantity of old .22 ammo, wartime Eley stuff that has a copper case and they make quite nice jackets.

Any advice gratefully recieved. Thanks.

Simon.

[MIBULLETS]

Simon,

Are you annealing or softening your 22 brass? If you skip this step you will get what we call nose folds. This is where the tip of the nose cracks and folds over itself.

[dancingbear41]

I do anneal the cases if I am using brass. The copper cases seem much softer and I have not annealed them. They do perform better but a reasonable number do get "the fold".

Frankly I am not deserate for .22 jacketed bullets, but in this day and age where everything is getting more and more expensive there may come a time when this will be the way to go.

However I have been casting and swaging bullets for many years and I like the ability to make my own and the pleasure and satisfaction that such activities bring.

Simon.

[marten]

Core Cutter...

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/CoreCutter0331Small.jpg

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/CoreCutter0330Small.jpg

[Smokin7mm]

I do anneal the cases if I am using brass. The copper cases seem much softer and I have not annealed them. They do perform better but a reasonable number do get "the fold".

Simon.

When your bullets are finished do they have lead all the way to the tip or a very small open tip? I have found if there is too much of a cavity in the tip that is unsupported by lead you tend to get more folded tips. The bullets made from 22lr cases are thinner than commercial jackets. Annealing is required for the rimfire jackets to form them properly.

Bret

[DukeInFlorida]

I made a different style core cutter, but mounted it 90 degrees to the way you show yours mounted.

You swing your arm left and right.

I swing the arm on mine up and down, much like a paper cutter. The cores drop by gravity. Many of yours get caught between the stop and the cutting edge.

Try turning/rotating it 90 degrees, and see how that works for you.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Paper_cutter_1.jpg

[marten]

Do not encounter any jamming problems as the core falls freely away from the gauge screw and anvil when the core is cut. I found that the guillotine type did cause jamming as the core was not so free to fall away.

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/CoreCutter0332Small.jpg

[alfloyd]

Duke:
Did you watch the video of Brian with the CH lead wire cutter he uses?
He mounted his so the wire feeds it's self into the cutter from the top.
Makes cutting core blanks very fast his way.

PS:
I modified that cutter and sold it to Brian.

Lafaun

[DukeInFlorida]

Yes, I saw Brian's cutter in the video. I like my version. It was cheap (almost free) from angle iron scrap. And, it works well enough to give me pretty good pre-forms.

[rasto]

I can easily make 30 cores in one minute with mine setup which cost me nothing [smilie=w:
It is adjustable from let say 4mm to 8mm lead wire.
The easiest way is the wire feeder which dependance is only on my skills.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/710/imag0351m.jpg/

[marten]

22-250 ready to go...

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/Swaging012-1.jpg

[marten]

De-rim die for someone who insists on a 6mm swage set!
It de rims and puts a small flare on the case mouth.

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/DSCF0333CRSmall.jpg

[marten]

Found a use for the 'sprung frame' Lee hand press...

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/Press_convMedium.jpg

[R.Ph. 380]

That is a very nice looking bullet. I marvel at the talent people have to make such precise tools.
Praise over, I am now seeking some advice. A number of years ago I baught a set of .22 swaging dies dies from an outfit called Sport Flite, no longer trading I believe. I have managed to swage some quite nice bullets from .22 jackets that shoot to approx. 1MOA from my Remington .222 varmint rifle. The frustrating part is the large number of failures I get at the final stage of swaging the bullet. Considering the amount of work put in up to that stage it is very disappointing.

What is the technique for forming the bullet? Is it a very gently movement into the die or a swift one? The literature I have read doesn't sem to explain this at all clearly.

I am limited to jackets made from .22 brass. I live in the UK and I have never seen .22 jackets for sale. I did come across a quantity of old .22 ammo, wartime Eley stuff that has a copper case and they make quite nice jackets.

Any advice gratefully recieved. Thanks.

Simon.

I have read that to prevent the "folding" of the point/top rim of the 22, you should "anneal" the whole case before attempting to swage it to prevent the"folding". Never having used the 22 dies, I'm not sure, just what I've read while trying to get up on the whole idea.

Bill

[Reload3006]

Annealing .... heat the derimmed 22 case until it is cherry red allow to cool or quench is fine its non ferrous the folds and splits come from work hardened brass bringing it to its completely soft state allows it to fold / form more easily

[R.Ph. 380]

Annealing .... heat the derimmed 22 case until it is cherry red allow to cool or quench is fine its non ferrous the folds and splits come from work hardened brass bringing it to its completely soft state allows it to fold / form more easily

Is it better to derim the case before or ater annealing?

[Reload3006]

I have found to derim first. if you anneal (or at least its been my experience) first it seems to me I have more punch throughs.

[BT Sniper]

Always derim 22lr case first then anneal after it has been derimed. This is teh only time we swage anything that is not first annealed.

Otherwise the 22LR case tends to stick to punch or the punch completly pushes threw bottom of case.

BT

[Lizard333]

Reloader3006 and BT have it right. That is unless you enjoy trashing future jackets and depositing them into your recycle bin. I very seldom get failures when do this way.

[Rolling Stone]

Something to think about; If you are annealing with a propane torch individually. Why would you anneal the whole case. I only do about the upper 1/4" or so and don't take the time to heat the head area. I was watching a youtube about this and the operator was holding the case with a pair of needle nose pliers. The pliers take up a lot of the heat from the torch. I have a length of stainless wire that I put the case on and don't have that problem. I noticed also that the fellow doing the annealing didn't have a clue as to the hot part of the flame from his torch and it took him a long time to get the case hot. I usually turn my lighting down so I can see when the red appears. Also don't forget to wash the primer residue out of the case before you derim.
Rolling Stone

[Utah Shooter]

I would anneal the whole case simply because it softens the base so when in seating the cores it is easier on your dies and your punch as well. I would assume less pressure to expand the base to the .223 diameter if it is annealed.

[marten]

Actually found that annealing after de-rim (before core-seat) is best, less punch through and the quality of the de-rimmed jacket is more consistent. Have tried both ways!

A few test cases - was messing around with the flare.

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/testcases.jpg

[Rolling Stone]

Why are you flaring the cases? I had never thought of that.
Rolling Stonen





A few test cases - was messing around with the flare.

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/testcases.jpg

[MIBULLETS]

One reason to flare them is to expand them up in size for use as a 6mm jacket.

[marten]

One reason to flare them is to expand them up in size for use as a 6mm jacket.

Yes, for expansion up to 6mm.

[marten]

Core Swage Die;

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/CoreSwage002S.jpg

[marten]

Sample of fired brass, de-rim with core swage and core seat (seat and expand to 6mm)

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/SwagedCores001.jpg

[hardcase54]

Marten, if you don't mind. What are the dimensions of your 6mm de-rim and punch? Thanks

[marten]

Have not got them to hand, will measure and post on Monday if that is ok?

[marten]

Measured my set (forgot about them!)
De-rim bore .219
Punch ø .201

[hardcase54]

Thanks

[marten]

onwards...

point form reamer

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/6mmReamerSmall.jpg

[marten]

First couple of 6mm samples,

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/First6mmSamplesSmall.jpg

[vparra559]

Can you make a set to sell?

[marten]

I can if needed!

[marten]

A selection of setup and test 6mm's compared to a home made .224 in the centre.

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/Multi6mmSmall.jpg

[marten]

Good to go now, the die set is complete!
Will finish the core cutter tomorrow!
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/DSCN0408crSmall.jpg

[vparra559]

I want one pm inbound.

[Utah Shooter]

Those sure do look like they make some pretty good projectiles.

[MIBULLETS]

How heavy are the 6mm bullets?

[marten]

How heavy are the 6mm bullets?

With an exposed lead tip, filled flush, a gnats over 68grain with the 22lr jacket.

[marten]

Forgot the core cutter!

MKII

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/DSCN0412crSmall.jpg

[marten]

Took the set to my customer and gave instruction on how to use, man, he had a grin from ear to ear!

[marten]

OK just to clear things up, I'm unlikely to make dies for shipping to the USA.
A few reasons, price, export license and shipping!

Thank you to all who asked but I think I'm inclined to just supply UK customers.

I will continue contribute to the swaging thread though.

[barryjyoung]

onwards...

point form reamer

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/6mmReamerSmall.jpg

Thank you for sharing this, that looks like silver steel made into a d bit of sorts, then torch hardened after machining. Is that about right marten? I need to start making swaging dies, so this sort of information is invaluable to me. Thanks again.

[marten]

Pretty much it, single flute reamer! One thing to be wary of is the warping of the reamer when hardening. I use an Oxy-Acetylene torch with a small pepper pot to do the hardening and temper drawing.
I found that using my small kiln had some disadvantages for reamers but was necessary to do the die bodies.

[marten]

Client back from Bisley having let some of his home swaged bullets loose, seems happy with 3 shot one hole groups @100yds! Looks like the bullets are working fine!

[marten]

3 shot string, 1 hole group @ 100 yards...

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/oddnsods/3shots.jpg

Nice shooting Simon!