Damaged bore from rollstamp?

[fatelk]

I have an old Marlin 1894, .44 magnum, mircogroove, made in the '70s. The thing has never had much accuracy with anything. Recently I've been trying to figure it out with different bullets, loads, alloy, size, etc. I've started a couple threads about it and gotten some good suggestions and help.

I took it apart today to think about lapping the bore. I took it apart once before, several years ago, and noticed some "wrinkling" in the bore, at the exact spot where the Marlin rollstamp is on the outside. You can only see it from the breach end with the bolt out, and looking at it today I realized that it really is worse than I remembered it.

I slugged the bore recently and the rifling looked fine on the slug. I assume that's because the soft lead slug reformed to the good rifling after passing the damage? As far as I can tell the wrinkles look as deep as the shallow rifling. Am I wasting my time, money and effort trying to get this thing to shoot? Is a new barrel a likely solution here?

On a related note, I understand that Marlin typically cut their .44 bores large. Is there a real world practical reason for this? If one were to replace a barrel, is it likely to expect the new one to be oversize as well?

[canyon-ghost]

Fermin Garza and a few others have written articles on firelapping Ruger revolvers for 'barrel crush', the threading of the barrel into the frame causing a restriction. Might be an alternative for the roll stamping waves.

[John Taylor]

Sounds like it is time for a new barrel or a reline. I had never thought about revolver barrels getting a tight spot where the threads are but it makes sense, rifle barrels will make a tight spot in the chamber when torqued to the action. I usually short chamber a barrel while it is in the lathe and finish ream for head space. In most cases the reamer will cut a little on the walls of the chamber where the threads are the first cut after installing the barrel.

[Skipper]

GPC has barrels if you decide that you need one:


http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=455940&catid=521

[mold maker]

If your already considering a re-barrel, you have nothing to loose with fire lapping. It might save you the price of replacement.
I have improved several barrels by fire lapping.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I also have improved several barrels by fire lapping.

[excess650]

I had one like that back in the late '70s. It was sent back to Marlin and rebarreled. I suspect yours should be sent back for the same. Can they deny it was defective from the factory?

Call 'em, or write 'em and tell them what the problem is and see what they say. if they agree to rebarrel, great! If not, trade it off or have it rebarreled with a quicker twist barrel.

[fatelk]

That looks like a pretty good option on a new barrel. It says "New Factory Original"; I wonder if they're microgroove and if they're any better than this one. I've heard of at least a couple other stories of wrinkles in the bore from the rollstamp.

When I look real closely, it looks like the wrinkle is at least as high as the lands, and fills an entire groove. That can't be conducive to accuracy. I actually called Marlin when I first noticed it several years ago, since some companies will stand behind their product and repair defects even decades later. The person I talked to said to send it in and they would take a look at it and see. She was very non-committal and not very friendly. I didn't want to waste money and time on a vague maybe, but maybe I should have.

[fatelk]

Well, I just called Marlin again. They said my rifle was made in '79, and forget about any warranty- too old. :(

I guess I could try lapping, but if the wrinkle is what is causing the abysmal accuracy I just can't imagine being able to polish a dent that big out of the bore.

[fatelk]

I just noticed that the Numrich barrel is for an 1894 Sporter, which according to my information has a longer barrel, shorter magazine, and possibly a little different forearm.

I'm concerned that the dovetails and such would be in different places to where it wouldn't work. Does anyone have any idea if this is so and if it could be made to work?

[CATS]

Fatelk,
Did you get the name of the person that you spoke with? I think that you should call back and ask to speak with a manager, get his/her name. They may try to help more if their name is tied to the problem. Your rifle has never shot well due to a FACTORY defect, be nice but firm. It does not mattttttter that it was made in 1979, it took this long to discover the FACTORY mistake. If the next person will not help, go up the chain to the manager's manager.

[sundog]

First thing I thought of was fire lapping and if that did not work, a liner.

[Multigunner]

I had heard of some M1 Carbine barrels being damaged by a marking placed on them by a company that imported them from Korea.
I think those were a marking that was stamped rather than rolled.

[fatelk]

Cats, thank you for the encouragement, but he was pretty adamant that the older rifles were not their problem, defect or not. I politely pushed a bit and he stood quite certain on the matter. I suppose I could try again and push a little more, but I'd rather not unless I felt it was likely to go somewhere.

Multigunner- "BLUE SKY"!! I have a Blue Sky import M1 carbine that I've had since the late '80s. It has the HEAVY "Blue Sky" stamp near the muzzle. If I have the rear sight adjusted all the way to one side it shoots pretty good.

[Skipper]

I just noticed that the Numrich barrel is for an 1894 Sporter, which according to my information has a longer barrel, shorter magazine, and possibly a little different forearm.

I'm concerned that the dovetails and such would be in different places to where it wouldn't work. Does anyone have any idea if this is so and if it could be made to work?

That was a sample. Here's the barrel listings:


http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=521

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Search.aspx?filter=marlin+1894+barrel

[c3d4b2]

he was pretty adamant that the older rifles were not their problem

You would think with all the bad press they have received lately they would be more accommodating .....

[largom]

You would think with all the bad press they have received lately they would be more accommodating .....



In 1979 Marlin was Marlin. Today, Marlin is Remington. Most companies will not service an old companies mistakes.

Larry

[303Guy]

It might be worth mentioning that there is an internet thread on this particular defective Marlin and many folks are interested in the outcome. If you have to buy a new barrel anyway, perhaps they could meet you halfway and fit a new barrel at cost. The benefit to them would be quite a few sales gained.

Of course it would be nice if they could get a-hold of the bright spark that ruled that an inflated balloon should be rubber stamped! Doh! (As Homer would say).

[Ziptar]

Last year I had a .44 Mag 1894 Re-barreled with a .45 Colt Barrel I bought from GPC. The new .45 Colt barrel is just fine. I never did look at the old .44 Mag barrel for wrinkles. I've got it down in the basement I'll check it.

If it's got no wrinkles you can have it for the cost of the shipping. Its a 20" microgroove. It does have a couple of vice marks on it now though.

[303Guy]

fatelk, how far back is the stamping damage? Meaning how much barrel would be left after cutting the damage off? If you take up Ziptar on his offer I might be interested in your old barrel. And if you don't take up his offer I might take him up on it if he's willing. Ummm .... that's if it's legal to ship steel tubes out of the US. [smilie=1:

[fatelk]

Ziptar- I'm very interested! PM sent.

303guy- if I cut it back to the damage it would be shorter than one of those Mare's Leg abominations.:) It's right at the "Mod. 1894" stamp, just a few inches from the chamber.

[303Guy]

I need about 15 inches to make a go of it. My plan is to fit a chamber to a barrel for my pig gun. I'm thinking of a 44-303 with an over-barrel suppressor which would add another two inches. My present pig gun has a 14 or 15 inch barrel in 303 Brit and that's about right but a larger bore is what I'm after to drive a heavier and fatter boolit to maximize the little shorty Lee Enfield. It's only good for under a hundred yards as it is.

[uscra112]

Doubt it's legal to ship it without an export license. And they can get awfully nasty over that. The Jamison brass people apparently (inadvertently) sent a small order of empty brass to Canada, and now they're facing felony charges, even though the company is already closed down.

Just sayin'

[Ragnarok]

I own a German Luger that Century stamped the import stamp a little hard...can see a bit of it in the bore.

Not a happy moment when I discovered that. Doesn't seem to effect the pistol though..shoots fine.

[fatelk]

I just got done with an attempt at lapping the bore. It didn't go well. It slid down the bore easily until it got the the rollstamp wrinkle, then I had to tap it through with a hammer repeatedly. I just don't think there's anything that can be done with it, unless I could shrink myself really small and crawl in there with an angle grinder.

When I cleaned the bore good and held it to the light just so, I could see the dent pretty clearly. It is actually across two lands and appears slightly higher than the lands.

I slugged it a couple times with soft lead round balls. Very careful measuring shows a bore at .4298", but across the land most affected by the dent the slug measures .4274". I still can't say for sure that it's the cause of all my woes, but it's obviously pretty distinct bore damage.

I've taken Ziptar up on his generous offer. I'll give that a try and hope the bore is better. I sure doubt it could be worse. If I get a chance before that I'll put it back together and try some of these fat bullets I made.

I just find myself wondering what was Marlin doing? This is a shameful lack of QC. I've done plenty of QC work before and if I let something this bad get out I would have been fired. I know this rifle is 33 years old, but I've read some horror stories about their current QC problems as well.

[fatelk]

I inadvertently have two separate threads going regarding this rifle. Here is what I just posted in the Levergun section:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1717883#post1717883

I just thought I'd post it here too, for anyone who might follow it here but not there. I did receive Ziptar's barrel, but it has similar wrinkles, leading me to believe it's pretty common and probably not as big of a deal as I thought. We knew it had some before he sent it but figured it was worth a try. I appreciated it anyhow, and now have a spare. Thanks again, Ziptar.:)