Shot Old W n. 32-40 Help Wanted

[oldwood1]

Ammo arrived and I got to the range, had the same problem "rbertalotto" had with his 38-40. Key holed the large cardboard backer!
I did a little research and found because my 1894 Win. 32-40 was made in 1894 it was probably a BP gun. The barrel has nothing indicating BP or SP.
I slugged the barrel at .323, after shooting it, what rifling is left is rough.
I shot a few of 3 different loads , .321 Lyman 165 cast 15.2grs. AA5744, .322 Lyman, and .321 160 HP cast same powder loads I believe. I had a little primmer back out with all 3. Appears I have a little head space issue.
Questions: What size Cast Boolit should I try? Can I adapt reloads to improve head space? What type powder should I use, and what charge?
Thanks, oldwood1

[405]

I slugged the barrel at .323, after shooting it, what rifling is left is rough.Thanks, oldwood1

Well, there is 99% of the problem. (I assume you mean .323 is the groove diameter?)

When the Win 1894 came out it was a Browning design that was plenty strong and designed for smokeless but the smokeless alloy steel barrels and smokeless ammo, the 25-35 & 30-30, weren't quite ready but the rifle was. So Winchester decided to go ahead with producing the M1894 in two existing rounds that fit the action- the 38-55 and 32-40. By 1895 the new steel, the 25-35 and 30-30 ammo were ready and as they say the rest is history.

To fireform you can seat cast bullets long and run them into the throat/lands tight upon chambering. Load to a starter-medium type load, fire and that will headspace that brass to that rifle correctly. Doing it any other way with a load capable of fully fireforming the brass WILL stretch the brass back just forward of the head and take away some life expectancy from that brass. Yes, the popped out primers indicate some extra headspace. They didn't pop out because of the main charge firing. They popped out when the primer fired and backed out, the main charge fired, the upper case walls stuck to the chamber walls but there was not enough pressure to STRETCH the case walls and force the head back to the bolt face. You want to fireform the upper part of the brass while not stretching the rear part. You want the head of the brass to stay put on the bolt face when fired. The bullet seated well out into the throat/lands will help do that.

Now the bad news on the heaspacing thing- the 32-40 is a straightwall. It does have some taper but relying on the taper alone may be futile. The best that can be done is to use the taper to "help" the headspace control. It will always primarily headspace on the rim.

Will that gun shoot with decent accuracy and no keyholing? Who knows? All you can do is use a bullet fat enough to fill the grooves and not so fat it won't chamber. Fire them and see. Micro managing .1 gr increments of powder, changing powders, changing lubes, etc. won't have much affect on basic outcomes like stability and accuracy. It's the poor bore condition that is driving the issue and can be corrected for only so much with bullet sizing.

[Waddie Bill]

OW1,

For a .323 bore you need cast bullets at least that big or better still larger (.001-.

.002") A .323 Gas Check bullet might also work. Your 5744 load seems OK.

Try some jacketed bullets made for 32 Win Spcl if they keyhole you may have to

look to barrel problems. Hope this helps.

Good luck,

Waddie Bill

[Marvin S]

15 gr of 5744 seems hardly fast enough to stabilize the boolit try 18 gr.

[John Taylor]

Liners are available for the 32-40 with .323" groove and a 1 in 16" twist.

[rintinglen]

I used Lyman's 323-470 160 grain Gas Check in an old beat up Marlin that I used to have. It shot terribly and leaded badly with some commercially cast .321 Boolits that I bought, but the GC 8 MM boolits worked well with either 15 grains of 2400 or 23 grains of RL-7. (well being a relative term--3 inch 50 yard groups versus 8 inch--the bore was too badly eroded to do much better).

[excess650]

The 30-30 was introduced in 1895 and was the first US produced smokelss round. Your 32-40 was made for BP loads.

I had an old Highwall in 32-40, and it was older than your 1894. The bore was kinda salt-n-pepper, but I decided to try it anyway. I used a tapered Saeco 200gr cast 25-1 loaded over BP and seated them out until they just touched. They would have been way too long for your LA, but they shot pretty well. On paper they showed signs of tipping at 100 yards, but must have "gone to sleep" as they would stay on turkey silhouettes at 385m.

You boolits are too small. I would suggest figuring out how large you can chamber and go from there. You'll need a little clearance on the necks to release the boolit, but .002" at most.

Your headspace issue wouldn't be a problem if you coud seat the boolits against the rifling. At the low pressures that the 32-40 works at it probably won't matter anyway. Just neck size your cases to avoid over working them(moving brass).

[725]

Try an 8mm Loverin design boolit. You can lube the heck out of it and hang it out the end of the case mouth to fit your chamber.

[Larry Gibson]

+1 on the 323470 and size them at .325 for your rifle. Use GCs and lube with a softer lube like Javeliana. I'd also up the charge to 18 gr 5744 or switch to H4895 and try 28 gr.

Larry Gibson

[oldwood1]

Thanks for all the input.
I replaced the bolt with one from an old 25-35 action I had laying around, seemed to tighten things up. I bought some boolits from one of the members, appear to be Lee C324-175-1R, bought a Lee .323 sizing die, loaded up new brass with 12gr. IMR 4227 and 12.5 gr. The 12gr. loads key holed and the 12.5gr. stabilized!
I will open up the sizing die by .001, load up the fire formed brass and increase the load a little. I am leaving the boolits a little long per suggestions. hope to get grouping. Will update.
Thanks again, odwood1

[TXGunNut]

Good job, might make it work yet! How's the leading?

[Dave Bulla]

Well, there is also some improvement to be expected just from shooting/cleaning cycles. I've got an old GEW Mauser 8mm that the bore looked horrible in. Cleaned it for weeks and could see strong gooves but very black. Took it to the range and it shot about 5 inch groups at 25 yards. Pretty bad. Took it home and of course cleaned it and was surprised to see some shine in the barrel. Cleaned it real good, took it back and it shot about 2.5" at 25 and 4-5 at 50. Next cleaning, the bore was getting some significant shine to it but still dark in the grooves. After 3 or 4 trips to the range followed by good cleanings, it will shoot about 3-4" at 50 yards. Still not anything to brag about but about a 300% improvement over when I first shot it.

If your rifling is rough, shooting it MAY help.

What I'm saying is, a cruddy old bore is kinda like an old plow that sits in the field. It gets rusty but use shines it back up pretty good. Of course, you can't expect miracles because there WAS damage done but you can expect some improvement just from shooting it. With the properly sized bullets of course. How much? Who knows?