Oil Filter Silencer

[Beagler]

Figure I will put her with the Millitary stuff. Ran across this on the Tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haiqFcIXTqs&feature=g-vrec

[W.R.Buchanan]

It kind of eliminates the usage of sights don't it? But it is easily disposable, which could come in handy in a pinch.

Randy

[Skipper]

But it is easily disposable, which could come in handy in a pinch



If the smoke from the flaming filter doesn't give you away!

[Bret4207]

And likely highly illegal. Posting such info on this site was discouraged IIRC.

[Photoguy67]

That's a registered product with the ATF. What's illegal about it?

[Sasquatch-1]

It would have been nice if they had cut it open afterward to show the insides. See if the paper was burning.

[Beagler]

Did you see how the paint was flecking off when they showed it on the assult rifle. Wonder if it bulged a bit.

[Bret4207]

That's a registered product with the ATF. What's illegal about it?

My apologies, I misunderstood what the idea was.

[bruce drake]

They are selling thier adapter which screws into the bottom of the oil filter.

I believe the early suppressors were developed around being wet with either a heavy oil or water. I assume since this is new to me as well, that they could always soak the filter in water before using it which would help prevent flash fires...

Bruce

[ebner glocken]

It's not a bad idea. A wild guess would be that accuracy wouldn't be the best in the world, especially for the first hole punching shot. In my opinion if I were to go through the paperwork and spend the 200 bucks for the tax stamp it would be for something a bit more complex. Not for something I could spin out on a lathe in under a hour. But for a can on a budget you couldn't go any cheaper.

Ebner

[EMC45]

The adapter is the registered item. Not anything you screw onto said adapter. Makes one wonder.............

[rockrat]

Fill out a form, send in your $200, and make your own adapter

[firefly1957]

MY understanding is unless you have a manufacturing licence you can not legally make a silencer. Another problem is the BATF has stated that copper coreboy pads used to refill a existing silencer constitute a silencer in themselves so they could by the same rule say the same about each filter.

Personally I would like to see them legalize and stop licensing suppressors and just make it a big jail term for illegal use of one. A lot of neighbors would like that also so much less noise and safer for our ears too.

[L1A1Rocker]

MY understanding is unless you have a manufacturing licence you can not legally make a silencer. Another problem is the BATF has stated that copper coreboy pads used to refill a existing silencer constitute a silencer in themselves so they could by the same rule say the same about each filter.

Personally I would like to see them legalize and stop licensing suppressors and just make it a big jail term for illegal use of one. A lot of neighbors would like that also so much less noise and safer for our ears too.

ATF Form 4 is used to transfer and register a silencer. ATF Form 1 is used to make your own silencer and register it.

ATF has also ruled that neoprene/rubber wipes are a wearable part that may be replaced by the end user. I suspect that the ATF will eventually correct their stupidity on the coreboy issue.

[Bret4207]

Fill out a form, send in your $200, and make your own adapter

That's what I thought the idea was.[smilie=l:

[firefly1957]

L1A1Rocker Thank you a lot of misinformation on this, I sometimes would like to have a way to quiet full power loads legally for now I switch to 22 or use reduced loads. My use would be pest control around the house I wonder if the can could be registered with different adapters for different guns?

[3006guns]

Once you submit your design, fill out the correct forms and pay the $200 you can legally manufacture your own device.....which WILL have an ATF issued serial number. This is the information I gleaned from a website on home made "cans".

In this case, there's nothing to prevent a person from legally copying the adaptor shown, a simple lathe project really. It's clever and effective as long as you have a scope or some "high irons".

If I had a criticism at all, it would be that the inventor should get a haircut and lose the cigarette before being video taped.

[L1A1Rocker]

L1A1Rocker Thank you a lot of misinformation on this, I sometimes would like to have a way to quiet full power loads legally for now I switch to 22 or use reduced loads. My use would be pest control around the house I wonder if the can could be registered with different adapters for different guns?

No problem. Purchasing a silencer or making your own is really not a big deal - it's just a matter of paper work. What you will need are

2 ATF Form 1s (or 4 if purchasing)
2 FBI fingerprint cards
1 Citizenship declaration
2 passport photos (attached to the Form 1/4s
A check or MO for $200.00 made out to the US Treasurey.

The kicker is that the Form 1/4 has to be signed by the chief law enforcment officer in your area. This signature states that the fingerprint cards and pictures are really you and that you are not currently under indictment for a crime that the ATF may not know about. See, the feds cannot make the CLEO sign the form and (s)he often will not sign it. If such is the case you can form a trust and have the trust be the legal intety that owns/makes the silencer.

After you have all your paperwork filled out you send it in to the NFA-ATF and wait. Current wait time is about 5 months. You will then get back one of your Form 1/4s (ATF keeps the other for their records). There will be a signature and date on the approved line and there will also be affixed (and canceled) tax stamp on the front of the form. The stamp is pretty cool itself as it is still series 1934 and $200.00.

Aft you get back the Form 1 you may begine your project. I've done 4 myself and helped friends and family on another 3 or so. It's a fun hobby. Here is a link to a repost I did here on my latest build.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=109904

[Moonman]

Do things TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW as the ATF has much more time than you do, especially to give you a BAD HAIR DAY!!!!!!!!

[firefly1957]

Again thank you sounds like a worth while addition to hobby for future.

[leadman]

I don't know about someone copying the design for personal use. The design is patent pending.

[bcp477]

"The kicker is that the Form 1/4 has to be signed by the chief law enforcment officer in your area."



Absolutely right. As it happens, the Chief LEO in my area (Sheriff) absolutely refuses to sign off on ANY application for a suppressor (Wake Co., NC). I couldn't care less about them myself, but a friend found this out the hard way.

[Lonegun1894]

Since there was a comment made about suppressing full power rifle rounds, you may want to comsider one little thing before spending the money. There are TWO sources of noise coming out the muzzle assuming this would be a manually operated action to eliminate action noise. You have the high pressure gas (muzzle blast) which the suppressor helps to quiet down, and then you have bullet flight noise. IF you're using a subsonic bullet, the flight noise is irrelevant. But if using a supersonic round, the bullet creates it's own miniature sonic boom, which the suppressor does nothing for. What this translates to is this. If you use a slow round such as a .45ACP, your gun can sound like a pelletgun or actually quieter depending on design. If however you use anything supersonic, it will still sound AT LEAST like a .22LR HV round being fired. It's still much quieter than the same rifle unsuppressed, but You can't really call it "quiet". I hope that helps some. Since we're all at this site, I'm assuming we all reload so are perfectly capable of loading our own subsonic rounds, but the subsonic/supersonic issue is something to keep in mind with any planned suppressor use.

[Shiloh]

And likely highly illegal. Posting such info on this site was discouraged IIRC.

Ditto.

Shiloh

[3006guns]

I don't know about someone copying the design for personal use. The design is patent pending.

By law, you can make ONE item that is already patented as long as it's for personal use. Now, if you start cranking out hundreds you're manufacturing and the owner of the patent might have a problem with that.

Of course the patent laws have nothing to do with ATF regulations pertaining to silencers and the like...completely different kettle of fish.

I think the guy's idea is really clever and, despite some shortcomings, will provide and enthusiast with an affordable "can". Be forwarned though........do it correctly and submit your paperwork in a legal fashion!

[L1A1Rocker]

Ditto.

Shiloh

I think it was already covered that this is a discussion on legal silencers. Silencers are perfectly legal in 37 plus states (I say plus because a few states have recently changed their laws on silencers). I posted on page 1 the process with the Feds on how to legally purchase, or make, a silencer. Please check you local laws for legality and/or other permitting requirements.

[Shiloh]

Not allowed in my neck of the woods.

Illegal in Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. Special exemption in Iowa, but you better have money and know the right people very well.

Shiloh

[cheese1566]

Doesn't the sellers website say the threaded adapter comes with a matching serial numbered oil filter?
Makes me think one time use or a very limited lifespan.

[Larry Gibson]

Doesn't the sellers website say the threaded adapter comes with a matching serial numbered oil filter?
Makes me think one time use or a very limited lifespan.

No, the adaptor is serialized and registered. The muffler is a throw away, same as replacing the burned out baffles in a real supressor.

You can also get around the local LEO approval by setting up an estate to which the supressor is registered to. Most dealers in such know how to do that, BATF approval is still required to get the tax stamp.

Larry Gibson

[cheese1566]

This is from the website. http://www.cadizgunworks.com/zcstore/

"This adapter part is round in shape and has 1/2 x 28 threads. It will thread onto an oil filter for the purpose of shooting though the oil filter and working as a silencer. The adapter part is manufactured by Cadiz Gun Works, Jewett, OH and carries a registered serial number The oil filter will share the serial number of the adapter. The Econo Can Suppressor is a NFA registered product. When you order, the registration will transfer on Form 3 to your local FFL/SOT dealer. Then you can complete ATF Form 4 to transfer the registration to you. The cost is $75.00 plus $10.00 S&H"

Clever concept. I see these being made in garages and basements.

[Lee]

Get rid of the BATF and the silencer is free. Or continue as you have always done and only the criminals will have unlicensed silencers.

" If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten"

Hmmm what's wrong with that picture..........;)

[Artful]

Get rid of the BATF and the silencer is free. Or continue as you have always done and only the criminals will have unlicensed silencers.

" If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten"

Hmmm what's wrong with that picture..........;)

Silencer's in some EU countries where they actually encourage ownership to discourage noise pollution are very inexpensive in comparison to USA pricing. But on the other hand some of the firearms laws their are more onerous that USA laws to get a gun to muzzle.
But elimination of ATFE pprwrk would reduce business costs for US makers and possibly lower pricing by 25-50% in my mind.

And of course un-registered suppressors in USA automatically make possessor a criminal due to federal regulation.

[HollowPoint]

I've been checking into paying for the "Tax Stamp" for making my own suppressor for an Air Rifle.
I have a design in my head but have yet to start any drawings in my CAD software.

I stumbled onto that same video a while back. It was interesting but, the cost of owning that little adapter
is far to steep for me. Making one is probably probably easy enough but owning one is another thing all together.

Just to clarify; is it $200.00 for the stamp per individual DIY silencer or does that same "Tax Stamp" cover any other silencers you make for your own private usage?

If it's two-hundred bucks a pop it seems like it would be prudent to design one that can be used on as many of your guns as possible. That way you can transfer it from one gun to the other without having to pay $200.00 each time. I'm still not clear on this.

Since I have your attention, are any of you DIY suppressor owners from Arizona? If so, who was the police chief that signed your paper work?
You can PM me the answer to this question so as not to highjack this thread. Thanks.

HollowPoint

[Mooseman]

It is 200.00 PER EACH Silencer. They each are serial numbered and the Tax stamped paperwork must match that number.
Homemade silencers have special regulations and you need to know the rules such as you may not have extra parts, wipes etc.

[Artful]

I've been checking into paying for the "Tax Stamp" for making my own suppressor for an Air Rifle.

Air Rifles suppressor's don't need a tax stamp if permanently attached to the air rifle as I under stand the regulations. ATFE only applies to firearms and air rifles are not in the USA a firearm. That said if I was to do it I would make it so that the suppressor wouldn't be able to withstand use on a regular firearm just to be doubly safe.


If it's two-hundred bucks a pop it seems like it would be prudent to design one that can be used on as many of your guns as possible. That way you can transfer it from one gun to the other without having to pay $200.00 each time. I'm still not clear on this.

I have used 223 designated caliber TAC-16 rifle suppressor on 22LR as it's one of the cleanable can's and I have also used 9mm suppressor on 22LR with good success. Also used my 308 rifle can on other calibers of smaller size like 243. Biggest issue is threading isn't always the same - 308 can is 5/8" threads but 223 can has 1/2" threads to fit AR15/M16 barrel - just have to make sure you have adapter's.


Since I have your attention, are any of you DIY suppressor owners from Arizona? If so, who was the police chief that signed your paper work?
You can PM me the answer to this question so as not to highjack this thread. Thanks.

HollowPoint

I didn't DIY but purchased from dealers commercially made can's and they are signed off by the county sheriff's ofc in Maricopa county (phoenix metro area). You can of course check with local city to see if they will sign off, but Sheriff's Dept does it routinely.

[bcp477]

I'm GLAD I couldn't care less about suppressors (the proper term). What a can of worms.......

[Artful]

I'm GLAD I couldn't care less about suppressors (the proper term). What a can of worms.......

might want to rethink the term you think is proper...

Mr. Maxim trade marked the term Silencer
http://rlv.zcache.com/vintage_maxim_silencer_ad_from_1920_poster-re28286ef50bb4d3eb9c69fb356da9bad_w2q_400.jpg

Dr Dater of gemtech trade marked Suppressor

some use Sound Modulator... - all marketing names

ATFE uses Silencers
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-silencers.html

[DCM]

Not allowed in my neck of the woods.

Illegal in Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. Special exemption in Iowa, but you better have money and know the right people very well.

Shiloh

They are NOT Illegal in Wisconsin. I personally know several cheeseheads in different areas of the state that own them. Some folks may have a hard time getting a signature though.

They are Illegal for PERSONAL ownership to MOST individuals in Illinois. They are used in IL but those are "special" people.

[EMC45]

I wonder how the sound would be effected if you soaked the filter in a bucket of water or oil first. It would probably be messy, but a bit quieter I think.

[badgeredd]

A couple questions here. Can the adapter (registered) be used with a thread adapter on a firearm? Could a fellow permanently mount a thread adapter to each firearm for one registered can adapter like the one that originated this thread?

Edd

[3006guns]

So you would have multiple firearms with threaded muzzles, but only so they would take the adaptor? I'm pretty sure that's legal.....after all there's nothing illegal about a threaded muzzle and as long as you register the adaptor itself you should be good to go.

[Stephen Cohen]

I was told by old Irishman 40yrs ago that this was a common IRA method of silencing, as you could get an oil filter anywhere not so a silencer.

[badgeredd]

So you would have multiple firearms with threaded muzzles, but only so they would take the adaptor? I'm pretty sure that's legal.....after all there's nothing illegal about a threaded muzzle and as long as you register the adaptor itself you should be good to go.

Thanks, That's what I was hoping. I've not been interested in silencers/suppressors before, but I am working with a little wildcat cartridge that would be a real ball to have suppressed. I am currently shooting loads that develop 6-700 fps so they'd be easy to quiet to a mere "poof".

Edd

[Lance Boyle]

For folks with a home range concerned about noise, you might be better off constructing a sound baffle to shoot through instead of a silencer.

They're generally a larger pipe with soft material inside to deaden the sound. I've seen a few on the web. Some of the downsides is that bees and birds like to nest in them and also the soft material breaks down or can even catch fire if you're really unlucky.

The upside is it's not a silencer, no $200 tax stamp, and just about any gun will fit.

[Chicken Thief]

So what is the thread size of/in an oil-filter?

[ilcop22]

Mount an Eotech on that big oil can and you can land yourself a gig with Red Jacket firearms!

[nelsonted1]

A friend in MN went to prison over silencers. I am a little unsure how it went since I have heard at least two stories. The one I believe is he was going to build the silencers. Then was caught with serial numbers not affixed to tubes.

Silencers are legal in MN. Then illegal. Then not illegal. Now illegal, i think, except for grandfathered ones. Next week either legal or illegal. In other words skitzopheniks run the state.

[xacex]

I see a problem with Cadzid, and other manufacures selling these adapters as solvent traps. Once someone has an "accidental" discharge they have committed a felony because they have manufactured a unlicensed silencer. There is someone on Ebay selling these thing right now.
Here's a question for you. Could you purchase one of these solvent trap adapters, submit a drawing of it then put a serial # to it? Or make your own solvent trap and have it around until you decide to do the paperwork to turn it into a silencer by shooting the hole into the filter? I see a huge grey area here. These might do the trick for a 300 blackout, but I will wait till someone else tries these and posts results before I go through the trouble.

[Katya Mullethov]

So what is the thread size of/in an oil-filter?

3/4-16 was the most popular of all time . 13/16 for chevy . Now they come in "all of them " .

[KCSO]

Just for the interested after filllng out the forms be prepared to wait 3-6 months for prossessing and approval. As to the oil filter can they are about as effective as the old Maxim silencer. If you mount a high red dot and use the smaller diameter can you CAN see the dot. and with a 22 anyway there is no burning of the filter in the first 200 rounds or so.

[EMC45]

Saw a thread pattern on a Masterpiece arms barrel collar.....Looked mysteriously like the same threads on an oil filter.......

[KCSO]

Oil Filter 3/4-16 for american thread , most common barrel threads 1/2-28 Walther thread 5/8-1mm.

[EMC45]

These threads were back by the receiver where you would screw on a perforated handguard (or oil filter) to cover the barrel.

[KCSO]

The threads are too far back with the factory 16" barrel so you need to bob it and there goes another $200 to the BATF. Same with the sterling.

[EMC45]

It was a Masterpiece pistol with about a 2.5-3in. barel. It may have been a MAC. The pawnbroker said he can't wait to get it out of the shop. Said everyone wants to hold it and posture with it and no one buys it.

[Brotherbadger]

Not allowed in my neck of the woods.

Illegal in Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. Special exemption in Iowa, but you better have money and know the right people very well.

Shiloh

They are legal in Wisconsin.