Swiss k 31 VS Swiss 1911

[walkswithsticks]

I have been watching the internet auctions for perspective in preparation for shopping at a local gun show in a few weeks.

I thought my first choice would be a Swiss K 31 with an Enfield No. 4 Mk 2 as second choice. I am seeing several Swiss 1911 rifles sell at attractive prices at auction lately, and I have seen favorable comments from shooters here about them. They look to be neat old pieces, and I am intriqued.

Could I get some additional thoughts and a litttle history on the Model 1911?

Thanks,
Bill

[dualsport]

Git 'em all.

[45 2.1]

The K11 short rifle will outshoot/ or equal most any of the militaries out there. It shoots lead much better than a K31. Buy it.

[Kraschenbirn]

Haven't got my hands on a G11 (yet!) but do have a G96/11 and a pre-war K31. Either will shoot cast as well as I can hold (or better!) but both have their drawbacks, too. The very short (non-existent?) throat of K31 barrels somewhat limits boolit selection but, due to the extractor design, 96/11 requires 'real' 7.5x55 brass (Privi works fine) where the K31 will handle cases formed from .284 Win. without a bobble. Accuracywise, the 96/11 just may be a little more 'CB friendly' but the longer barrel/sight radius might have something to do with that.

As I stated, I've already got two and will, one of these days, undoubtedly add a G11 as well.

Bill

[excess650]

Boolits like the 311644 and 311299 work very well in my K31s. The K31 chamber is larger in diameter at the shoulder than the earlier 7.5x55s, so there is a specific die set for K31s. Ammo from a 7.5x55 will go in a K31, but not the other way. You CAN load K31 ammo on regular 7.5x55 dies, but they'll be a little small at the shoulder. The neck and boolit will keep 'em pretty well centered.

The first K31 I bought has a little throat wear, so is very cast friendly. The last I bought was rebarreled( and shortened to 20.5") and didn't apper to have been shot much if at all. While its a little tighter and requires the ammo be a little shorter, it works very well with the 311644. I haven't tried the 311299 in it, but it should work. I jave the NOE K31 mould, but its nose is undersize for all (3) of my K31s.

The Lee C-309-150-F and 311041 shoot extremely well from my shortened "carbine" but won't feed from the magazine.

The rifle with worn throat has been the guinea pig with the 311299 and it likes 'em with ~30gr H322 and ~40gr surplus 4895.

[tacklebury]

I have had good luck with my 1911. Circa 1917 build date and it shoots super good. The 96/11's are supposed to be all up to snuff for the GP11 ammo, but I wouldn't push it personally. I shot 3 boxes of Hornady Custom 165 gr. BTSP's at the silhouette range and was able to hit the 500m ram after a few windage shots with them. I have now loaded up my own with the Graf's brass and used the 180 gr. Hornady BTSP and get good accuracy. I haven't tried cast in it yet, but should be doing so soon. ;)

[HighHook]

I just recently got a 96/11 and it shot really high at all yardages. You will need to replace the front sight or get that sight raised about 1/8". A pleasure to shoot....

[Linstrum]

An old thread about various Swiss rifle chambers and sizing die selection that you might find informative:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=73162&highlight=linstrum+k31

rl 1107

[walkswithsticks]

How do you tell the difference between a 96/11 and a 1911?

How do you determine the year of manufacture?

Thanks,
Bill

[wrench]

Here's a nice description of the various models, and a chart to date them by serial number.
http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/schmidt_rubin.html

I shoot both long and short rifles, and don't really see any accuracy difference between them-that is, mine are all pretty darn accurate rifles!

[Kraschenbirn]

I just recently got a 96/11 and it shot really high at all yardages. You will need to replace the front sight or get that sight raised about 1/8". A pleasure to shoot....

If your 96/11 is like mine, the base (lowest) sight setting is 300M which, even with G11 (or equivalent) ammo, will put it around a foot high at 100 yds. To correct this, I dug out an old milsurp front sight (not certain what it came off of), filed the dovetail to fit the Swiss base, and soldered on a piece of brass stock to get the necessary height.

Bill

[HighHook]

I did see on a Swiss forum somewhere there is a fellow that makes taller front sights for lots of milsurps.
I took my dovetail sight off and tig welded a 1/8" lump then grinded it to shape. Looks and works well. If done properly you can use the proper meter/yardage on the old sights

[NuJudge]

The Swiss seemed to think the 96/11 long rifle was the most accurate for match use, and they liked the butt being a little shorter than the 1911 long rifle.

My experience is that the 1911 carbines accurate, but usually are not as accurate as the K31 rifles. I've had two K31 rifles that shoot much better than the 1911 carbines, and 4 more that are probably a shade better.

With Jacketed ammo, the best shooting straight pulls I have ever had were the late production K31 rifles. The late K31 Beech stocks are nowhere near as pretty as the early K31 or 1911 long and carbine rifles' walnut, but they shoot better. These rifles all like Swiss GP11 surplus, but their tastes in handloads vary from rifle to rifle, and change with time. My first K31 initially liked GP11 surplus, but disliked all component bullets in handloads, until I tried the Remington 165gr SPCL, but after about 1000 rounds it started to shoot the Nosler and Sierra 168gr match bullets well.

The best shooting cast bullet rifle I have had amongst the straight pulls was a very early K31 which had been shot a lot, such that the throat had moved forward a good bit. The 96/11 and 1911 rifles have throats that are very loose compared to the K31. The rifling on a K31 comes all the way to the case mouth, and the tops of the lands are not .300" they are about .297". If you have a relatively new barrel, you may have difficulty chambering standard US bore-riding bullets with .300" noses.

The site here has done several group buys on bullets specifically for the K31, being slightly modified clones of the RCBS 165 and 180gr Silhouette bullets, modified to have .297" noses. These have shot exceedingly well for me in worn bores, but not as well in newer bores.

I am relatively new to the 1911 long rifle. I have gotten a tall front sight from Guisan on the Swiss Rifles website. It does make it possible to shoot at 100 and 200 yards. The tall sights come WAY TOO TALL, and you have to file them down. The factory sight puts holes way high, and the tall sight (until filed) puts them way out the bottom.

[Just Duke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iUIBxUqiWQ&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVrG1-GghCM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM63_UjYr_8&NR=1&feature=fvwp


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egRwuMGgdwc&feature=related

[jonk]

I have:
Vetterli 69/71
Vetterli M.78
Schmidt-Rubin G89
Schmidt-Rubin G96/11
Schmidt-Rubin G11
Schmidt-Rubin K11
Schmidt-Rubin K31

Unless I had a chance to make a chamber cast and slug the bore before buying, I'd take ANY of them over an Enfield No.4mk2, and twice over on Saturday.

[Dutchman]

This 96/11 was purchased at the Indianapolis gunshow about 1999/2000 for $140. It was my first Swiss rifle and I was absolutely smitten with the ambiance of this rifle. It shoulders and balances better than just about any other rifle I've ever shouldered. The trigger is very crisp and clean. With Norma Diamond Line match ammo 200 gr moly bullets it shoots sub-MOA. The bore is immaculate.

I use Lee dies for this rifle and the K31 with no problems although there are significant differences in how you load each of those rifles.

The 1911 and 96/11 have a longer camming action of the bolt so that when compared to the K31 the 1911 and 96/11 are much smoother in operation than the K31, though I believe the K31 is a stronger action.

If all you know of Swiss rifles is the K31 then you don't know Swiss rifles.

http://images38.fotki.com/v1220/photos/2/28344/157842/yr24-vi.jpg
http://images43.fotki.com/v1389/photos/2/28344/157842/yr25-vi.jpg
http://images45.fotki.com/v1424/photos/2/28344/157842/yr26-vi.jpg
http://images46.fotki.com/v1413/photos/2/28344/157842/yr27-vi.jpg

[garandsrus]

Here's another great link to Swiss rifles.

http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/

I found out that my 1911 was one of the first couple hundred made, which is pretty cool!

John

[gwpercle]

I prefer the 1911 . Mine is a K11. Which is a carbine length. With a longer camming action than the K31 , the bolt glides back and forth as if on ball bearings. And it has a long throat which is better for cast boolits.
The K11 is the last model before they developed the K31 and to my mind is the best of the lot for shooting. The trigger is the best on any military rifle and is better than most commerical rifle triggers.

Big K11 fan
gary