Sad news from Hornady!!!

[blaser.306]

After a call to Hornady today regarding my "m" type balance scale ( that will not hold zero), I was informed that I was out of luck with warranty as they are now OBSOLETE!!! Hornady does not offer a balance type of scale any longer??? All they will be offering are the new and suposidly more "accurate" digital models! Guess I will have to look to RCBS for my powder weighing needs !!!

[SethD]

Crazy isn't it? I would(and do) take the good old balance scales over the digital ones any day.

[Mooseman]

I wonder why it won't hold zero ?
My non-magnetic scale holds fine when they stabilize , just not as fast as the magnetic one does...
I wonder if the magnetic strip fell off or something...either way it should still hold 0.

[bbqncigars]

I had my Lyman (built by Ohaus) M scale overhauled and tuned up by Mr. Parker. Yeah, I've had a Dillon D-Terminator scale for a few years and mainly use it to sort bullets/brass. The M is what I set my powder measures with. It is carefully kept in its stowed configuration when I'm not using it.


Wayne

[44Vaquero]

That is sad news. I do not use digital scales or calipers etc. What do you do when the power is out or the batteries are dead. That's just me others may feel differently.

[r1kk1]

I had the same problem with Hornady in the past. It's not a scale but an Apex 3.0. They said they sold all the parts to Lock, Stock, and Barrel. Problem is that store was closed years ago. I sold the press. Haven't bought another Hornady press since.

I have an old Dillon Electronic scale and a RCBS 10-10. The 10-10 has been with me for years and I bought the electronic in the 90s I believe. Both work well.

take care,

r1kk1

[W.R.Buchanan]

This is a dumb move! It is probably being drivven by some market research or other statistical BS.

Electronic everything is the wave of the future and really most electronic scales ARE more accurate than their mechanical counterparts,,,However.

In a fail safe scenerio what to you do when the batteries are dead.

I highly recommend that you have alternatives.

There are plenty of used mechanical scales out there, hell there are plenty of new ones out there. Get one and hold onto it. That way you're covered

Randy.

[nfg]

Not to put too fine a point on it, BUT, NO manufacturer drops items that sell...it might be the economic downturn, or it might be the fact that there are fewer and fewer people are buying reloading components, which might just be a wake-up call to ALL of us in the long view.

EITHER scale type is only as accurate as it's calibration and most balance scales are accurate to within 1 to 2 tenths of a grain and so are some digital scales...IF you buy one with the finest level of precision and accuracy and only to the number of digits it can read to...i.e., 0.1 gr, 0.001 gr, 0.0001 gr etc...and only as useful as the battery life, as already stated.

When batteries go away so will a large part of life as we know it...THINK ABOUT THAT.

I have two balance beam and 6 digital scales...I use the 10-10 for a quick setup and my JEWELERS digital when I want to weigh sort to a high level, because it is much quicker and MUCH more accurate AND repeatable.

One thing I can guarantee and I have tested...NO TWO SCALES, be they balance or digital, unless they are of the analytical variety, will weight the same bullet at the same weight time after time...I have set up BOTH my balance beam scales and 4 digitals and used ONE 50 gram check weight from one of the digitals and NONE of the scales weight it the same TO BEGIN WITH or REPEATEDLY...even after I calibrated the ones I could calibrate.

Some of the digital scales were accurate within 3-5 gr, but wouldn't repeat, some were accurate to 1/10th grain and were repeatable, the "jewelers" type, and the others each were within a specific range listed in the fine print of the makers paperwork.

I DID weigh the check weight on a highly accurate analytical scale at a local lab just for my own edification, so I know within a few THOUSANDTHS of a grain what it weighs.

Scales are one of those "analosity" things...for the most part if you can get within about half a grain, for all intents and purposes - hunting that is - you have nothing to worry about. :shock::roll::bigsmyl2:

[MGySgt]

NFG - I have a Reading BB Scale that I have had since late 1973. About 20 years ago I bought a set of Lyman Scale Check weights.

Zerroed my BB Scale and then set it to the weight of the check weight - Dead on for each of the check weights. I even did multiples of the Check weights just to verified a wider range. These were dead on too.

Now I must admit that you have to zerro the scale in the same way each time or it will be light 2/10's of a grain. I must start with the larger weight aff the way past the zerro and then bring it back to 0. Adjust the foot until it is on the line and it is zerroed.

If I was going from say 9.9 grains to 10.2 I would take the large weight to 10 and move the small weight back to 0.2. If I was going from 10.2 to 9.8 I would take the large weight to 0 and then back to 5.

The direction of the smaller weight doesn't seem to matter. The large weight always has to go up in weight when I set it. I think it has to do with how it settles into the 'teeth' of the ballance beam.

My RCBS Charge Master normally weights within 1 or 2/10's of a grain hight or low (when re-weighted on my Reading) So I use it to 'Throw Light' and then transfer it to my Reading and trickel it up.

If I weight an object at 100.0 Grains today - If I weight it tomorrow it is still 100.0 grains If I weight it next week - it will still be 100.0 grains.

I have no experience with any other balance beam scale. I did have a Lyman 1200 and it also varied 1 or 2 tenths up or down.

[Catshooter]

I love my RCBS equipment. While it's true that even they may not be stocking parts for their old 4X4 press, so much of the stuff they've been making for years is still current so parts are there. And they won't let you pay for parts, either.

No batteries doesn't have to mean the end of the world you know. A lot of people live in the sticks (long ways to the dang store) or it could be New Years Eve.


Cat

[1hole]

"...call to Hornady today regarding my "m" type balance scale ( that will not hold zero), "

I have no direct experience with that model scale but failure of a beam scale to "hold zero" is nearly physically impossible unless it's damaged. Check to see if the pivot bar is straight and if your pivot knives or V bearings are dirty or damaged. Clean the V bearings with a dampened tooth pick, clean the knife edges with a damp face tissue - the knives and bearings need to be dry, use no oil. Use a magnifying glass to see if you have any small burrs on the knives; if there are any you can use a fine grit ceramic pocket knife sharpening stone to carefully remove them.

Last resort, replace it with another beam scale. Anything by Ohaus is great (RCBS and Dillon), the Lymans are very good and Redding had a truly excellant beam scale last I looked.

[geargnasher]

Of all the brands of equipment I have, RCBS is my go-to for accurate weighing. I have two RCBS 5-0-5 scales that have outlived all the fad electronic junk.

I think the reason that electronic stuff is getting more popular is price point. A friend of mine, who has actually shopped "electronics row" in Seoul, Korea in person before, explained the price thing when I was cussing an inoperative touch button on one of my window air conditioners. He said that the remote control and the boards/buttons/display altogether cost less than a multi-position electro-mechanical switch and a temperature-control potentiometer. Hard to imagine that all that electronics is cheaper than a couple of control switches, but it is. I'm sure a little electronic scale is a fraction of the manufacturing cost of a real, mechanical, agate-bearing beam scale and all it's related parts.

Gear

[joec]

I have the Hornady GS-1500 and a Lee beam scale both seem dead on so if I have a doubt I just check one against the other. Hornady is small compact and dead accurate for powder measure as well as really inexpensive.

[1hole]

"Hard to imagine that all that electronics is cheaper than a couple of control switches, but it is. I'm sure a little electronic scale is a fraction of the manufacturing cost of a real, mechanical, agate-bearing beam scale and all it's related parts."

Yeah, that's why it astonishes me that so many people get in line and bend over at the cash register to buy digital scales and auto-powder dumpsters. I can understand the sellers charging what ever the market will bear tho. The vast difference in profit is probably what motivated Hornady to drop their beam scale.

[Colorado4wheel]

Hornady does not really have a lifetime warranty. They just discontinue stuff and they are off the hook. It's what they do.

[skeet1]

blaser.306
On the Hornady and Pacific M scales they have two screws holding two chrome looking small spools that support the knife like edge of the beam. You might try loosening these screws and turning the spools to a new position so the knife like edge on the beam has a new place to pivot. My Pacific M had a problem developing like yours and that's what I did and it works fine now.

Ken

[John Guedry]

I qwn a digital scale and never want another. Its an expensive paper weight. My Lyman beam type has never let me down.

[Willee]

Try weighing a small piece of paper (1/4" square) and see how sensitive your electronic scale is.
Unless it can read out to hundredths of a grain you wont see any weight.
However ... even the cheapest balance type scale will respond to that tiny piece of paper.

What does this mean?
I dont really know if it is relevant but the digital scales just dont seem to be as sensitive to very small weights.

Willee

[jcwit]

Progress is a terrible thing.

[462]

Progress may or may not be a terrible thing, however I can choose whether to accept it or not.

For a while, I used an electronic scale but found that it's not compatible the way I reload, so it's used only to weigh boolits.

[jcwit]

Progress may or may not be a terrible thing, however I can choose whether to accept it or not.

This is true, the Amish are a good example.

[Stroker Ace]

If I had the money, I'd have both, but it would seem that beam scales have been used for a long time, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Folks have been reloading with beam scales for years.

It would seem that problems with manual scales could be more easily addressed by the user as opposed to problems with digital ones.

It really sucks that Hornady would not honor a warranty, regardless of it they happened to sell it anymore or not. It doesn't make for good customer relations. I wonder if it has to do with their purchase of Pacific... Does your manual scale have, "Pacific," on it anywhere?

[montana_charlie]

I have a small, low-cost, jewlers scale that I use for weighing bullets. It is much handier than using my 10-10.
When weighing bullets, I only need to know that they all weigh the same .... not exactly how much they weigh.
However, when I find myself doubting the weight of a powder charge from the 10-10, I plop that panful on the difital scale for a 'second opinion'. So far, it has always read extremely close to what I thought it should.

And, like I said, it's a cheapie ...

What digitals scales are handicapped at doing is reacting to weight change.

When you put a load on the plate, let it stabilize, and take your reading, that's what they are good at.
When you try to trickle a charge up to a desired weight, they don't track that increase very well.

CM

[blaser.306]

Thanks for all the replies! After some carefull Lookin at the knife edges on the beam, with a 5x magnifier. I saw what appeared to be ( ahem ) mechanical damage??? With a few juditious strokes with a fine round ceramic stone and the help ( loan ) of a set of scale check weights from Dieguy59. I am back in buissiness again , All balances out and weighs true to the 210.5 that is supplied with the scale set . I guess there is no immediate need for a new scale, however I think I will keep my eyes open for a NIB Hornady balance to be squirreled away for future consideration.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Thats what I like to hear repaired and good to go again , and I like all my balance beams and no electronics for scales and calipers here either

[1bluehorse]

Same boat here Blaser, my Pacific model M that I purchased in a "kit" in 1976 started doing strange things also. Same answer from Hornady, "tough sh!+". So from now on Hornady can go fish (thats the politest thing I could think of) ....I have a Lyman beam scale that works just fine and a couple RCBS electronic ones, but the Pacific kinda has sentimental value being the "first" I ever bought. Plus I still have all the other Pacific equipment (except the 38 dies) from that "kit". Yeah, I could find another one but it wouldn't be the same...

[WildmanJack]

I gave my old RCBS balance scale to a buddy two weeks ago. Three days later my RCBS Chargemaster craps out on me!!! It's two months out of warantee, so need to ship it back with a check for $45.00 for a new scale. Now I'm A;;; sorry I gave the balance scale away, and B::: Sure hope that the Chargemaster isn't a ***.... Up till now I have really loved the Chargemaster as it drops and weighs a load just as I finish loading a round. I have a PACT scale but don't particularly care of it. Way to sensitive to air currents.

Jack

[Muddydogs]

I have had one of the first RCBS digital scales for what 15 or 20 years. Every time I check it with check weights its right on the money and never gives me a problem. If I had to use a balance beam I would go crazy, started with my Dad's balance beam 30 years ago but when I put my own reloading gear together a digital was the first thing I got. My scale runs off wall power with a 9 volt backup and I have to say I am not worried about not having power to run the scale, I have enough 9 volts to get buy for a while just from the smoke alarm stash and if life is that bad but I still want to reload then I am sure the scale load will be nothing for the generator. Plus theres an old balance beam around here somewhere that someone gave me years ago.

For years I used the dial calipers but bought my first pair of digitals a couple months ago and have to say that digital calipers are very nice to use and fast. I now own 2 pair of digital calipers but the old dial ones still have a place on the bench. When the grandkids are old enough to learn about reloading I will defiantly hide the digital calipers so they can learn how to read a dial and maybe learn a little something about math and numbers. Maybe I can teach them how to read a analog clock while I'm at it.

[Norbrat]

When the grandkids are old enough to learn about reloading I will defiantly hide the digital calipers so they can learn how to read a dial and maybe learn a little something about math and numbers. Maybe I can teach them how to read a analog clock while I'm at it.

While you are at it, teach them how to read a Vernier scale and how to use a slide rule. ;-)

[jcwit]

Don't forget to throw away your remotes.

It was so much better walking up to the tv to change channels.

Yup, progress sure sucks.

[HangFireW8]

Thanks for all the replies! After some carefull Lookin at the knife edges on the beam, with a 5x magnifier. I saw what appeared to be ( ahem ) mechanical damage??? With a few juditious strokes with a fine round ceramic stone and the help ( loan ) of a set of scale check weights from Dieguy59. I am back in buissiness again , All balances out and weighs true to the 210.5 that is supplied with the scale set . I guess there is no immediate need for a new scale, however I think I will keep my eyes open for a NIB Hornady balance to be squirreled away for future consideration.

Glad it worked out for you. It's a shame the Model M is not supported anymore, it was my first scale, first one I owned, anyway. I had the same issue just a few years ago, it was still supported at that time, so I let them fix it. I learned two things- they sent it to the OEM to fix it, and one should never leave a beam mounted.

The reason is that sooner or later you drop something on the scale and it hammers the beam and peens flat spots onto the knife edges. Then you get the odd behavior you described- doesn't respond, then settles high or low, doesn't respond, then settles low or high, just drives you nuts.

Since then I built a small red oak box with clear top, and put it on my bench. Since it is already there, there is always room to put the scale away in it. Sometimes when I am in a hurry I just set the beam in there. The box is not a thing of beauty, but it serves a real purpose.

When your scale does this, you can stone it and fix it and verify it. When your electric does this, you throw it away.

HF

[skeet1]

blaser.306,
Good to hear you got your scale going again. My old Pacific Model M is the first scale I've owned I once got a used RCBS 505 at a flea market but didn't like it compared to my old Pacific. Not that the RCBS had any thing wrong with it, but once you get used to something it's hard to change. I bought that old scale in Minneapolis at a gas station that also sold reloading equipment on the side around 1971 and it is still going strong. I sold the RCBS.

Ken

[buck1]

I feel your pain. When a company does not stand behind something with their name on it , I go else where from now on. I will never again buy a new weaver scope for that same reason.

[jcwit]

I feel your pain. When a company does not stand behind something with their name on it , I go else where from now on. I will never again buy a new weaver scope for that same reason.


I understand the above statement and pretty much agree with it, However folks need to realize that the warranty etc. are factored into the initial price of the item. Free service and forever warranty are not free.