BTSniper 22 cal operation & rate of production

[BT Sniper]

Quick video for you all, read on!

I've spent the better part of a year perfecting my custom 22 cal swage dies and their operation. My goal was not only perfection in a bullet that forms easily and shoots as good or better then commercial bullets (yes even from 22lr brass!) but also to make the entire operation fool proof as well as fast enough that it is worth your time and effort.

Here is a short 1 minute video in which I point form 19 bullets in only a minutes worth of time. I found it a farily easy rate of production to maintain, even if you could go only half that fast, say at 10 per minute that is still 600 bullets per hour!

The first complete set of these custom BTSniper 22 cal dies should ship this week to a lucky customer. Matter of fact it is his dies you will see in opperation in this short video.

If you are serious about making a lot of bullets while maximizing your time, effort and return on your investment I welcome any of you to give these dies a try.

Thank you all for your support, Good shooting and Swage On!

Brian Thurner

CLICK ON PIC TO WATCH THE VIDEO!

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/th_P1070305.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/?action=view&current=P1070305.mp4)

[BT Sniper]

I'll save post # 2 here for a picture of the complete 22 cal package I have to offer. I'll get the pic posted just as soon as clear a spot on the work bench :)

Here is a shopping list of everything I will be including in the 22 cal package deal

.2240 point form die 6s or 9s ogive
.2235 core seat die
.218 derim die
.1875 core swage die
Auto ejection system for any 1" press or the Lee Classic Cast. The lee option will include a new ram top that will accept threaded base punches as seen in video. These dies as you can see are very easy to use and require very little pressure to achive perfect results. Any decent reloading press will work perfectly.

I make this initial offer for the 22 cal package at an introductory price of $800 with free shipping. This is slightly less then the price Corbin is/was charging yet I will provide you with my exellent auto eject system allowing you to use a press you most likely allready have. I have heard that Corbin is not offering his swage dies for standard reloading presses any longer?

I stand behind these dies. It is my opinion that they are as good if not better then anything availble in their price range but don't take my word for it, let me show you some targets, pictures of some bullets or even reviews from future shooters/customers.

I offer my standard life time warranty against defects (does not cover abuse or neglect) and a 30 day money back guaranty. I am positive you will be %100 satisfied with these dies or I buy them back within 30 days.

Everything you need to get started will be included. All above dies come complete with all necessary base punches of course and all comes packaged in my nice black die box. I always include sample bullets, jackets and cores from the very dies that you will receive and as always I include 1/2 oz of swage lube that will be enough for more then 500-1000 bullets formed. Cores can be cut from simple .185 lead wire. I am working on an adjustable 11 cavity core mold that should speed things up in the future.

I invite anyone interested in my products to simply look and ask around, I have worked very hard to make sure all my customers will be very happy with their purchase. What better time to start making your own bullets. Break free from those that regulate our shooting enjoyment. Make your own and take pride and enjoyment in what you will be able to achieve.


BT

[Utah Shooter]

So I never did see it but... How much for just the point form die that has the higher ogive? For for us who own Corbin Dies?

[BT Sniper]

Please refer to the link posted below for my current package offer and price.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=156386



I have gotten quite a few inquires about purchasing just the point form die. I am a little sceptical to sell it sepperatly. I believe a quality 22 cal bullet from 22LR brass starts with the derim die and core seat die. I can't guarantee everyone will have 100% perfect results from the point form die when I can not control what was put in it. Most likly anyone with a decent derim die and core seat die from a quality die maker such as Corbin or possibly Blackmon should expect decent if not perfect results. So long as the derimed jacket is less then .2230 and the jacket/seated core combination is .2235 or less then things should be good to go but if anyone was to attempt to swage an oversized seated core/jacket in the point form die the odds of a bullet sticking in the point form die are greatly increased. Stuck bullets are not a lot of fun to remove. I have gotten very good at it in all my tryle and error but it must be done correctly so as not to ruin the point form die.

So what I am saying in more then a few words is that I will not warentee any 22 cal point form die that is sold seperatly without the purchaser allready in position of at least my core seat die and preferably both my core seat and my derim die. I will guarenty that any seperatly purchased point form die that leaves my shop will be in perfect working order and is of perfect diameter but like a new car once it leaves the show room floor it is yours. I would most likly provide a lead "proof" bullet for the customer and one for me to keep on file.

Then there is the matter of how one will eject the bullets if not purchased as a packaged set with my supplied auto eject. These 22 cal bullets have a .062 meplat and ejection pin, that is pretty darn small and makes an incredible looking bullet. It is possible to eject it using soft blows from a mallet but again it is not ideal or even recomended. Sure auto ejects can be made by the user but again I can not garentee perfect results.

If one does happen to stick a bullet in the sepperatly purchased point form die I will happily remove it for a charge. For those customers that purchase the package deal I'll prefer to take care of any stuck bullets, should one occure, personally at no charge to ensure you always have a perfect functioning die!

So if one is able to accept the responsiblity and is confident about the abiltiy and sizes of their core seat die and point form die then I would consider selling the point form die sepperatly to that person.

Of course when purchasing anything sepperatly the cost is a bit more.


Please refer to the link posted below for my current package offer and price.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=156386

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

OMG, Brian! My own personal video!!! How totally awesome is that!
Thanks for letting me see my babies before they arrive.

[BT Sniper]

Yep! Just putting the finishing touches on it.

It works perfectly as you can see :)

Start swaging some 46.0 grain cores for 55.8 grain bullets that will completely fill the jacket perfectly. That is what I was using.

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

46 grain cores. CHECK! (making notes)

I am picking up a working core cutter from a buddy in the AM so I can try to make one.

[Salmon-boy]

Ok, I'm convinced! Sign me up for a 2 die set!

Duke! You've done it again!

[BT Sniper]

Pic of first set of BTSniper 22 cal dies completed and ready to ship. Should go out in Morning's mail with dilivery probalby on Saturday! If not Friday :)

Cusomter allready has my derim die and a core swage die.


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070318.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070320.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070321.jpg


Pic of some 22 cal base punches for a customer to replace his worn Corbin's
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070306.jpg

[BT Sniper]

Ok, I'm convinced! Sign me up for a 2 die set!

Duke! You've done it again!

I'll be sure to make plenty of extras to cover all potential orders. I'll send you a PM soon.

Thanks

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

Brian,

I have the following:
A) Core wire extruding set from Lafaun
B) Derimming die set that you made.

I do not have a core swage anything (other than the wire extruder, A, above)

Please clarify.

Chuck,
You'll have enough lead to make bazillions of 224 "j words."
Brian is the guy to make the dies for you. One thing I have come to KNOW about Brian: You set will be even better than my set. And, I'm already very sure that my set is beyond my wild expectations.

The people who jumped the gun, and went with the cheap swage sets are already bugging Brian for his point form die. Problem is (for them) that you can't take poorly made pre-forms, and expect that Brian's point form will magically fix them.

You'll be very happy, Chuck.

Thanks again, Brian. PLease let me know what you meant about core swage.

[BT Sniper]

Core swage..... Well darn it :) I knew you had Lafaun's wire extruder, I thought you had his core swage die too. I'll take care of it! Let me see what I can come up with. I'll let you borrow mine till I get another one made. I have all the necessary tools and materinal inbound now for core swage dies. The core swage die, also commonly called a bleed die or squirt die, has a bleed hole in the side of it to all us to squish lead wire into exact and uniform same weight cores. I have been able to maintain +/- a tenth of a grain. A big plus when making accurate bullets.

Yes this set one is far better then my personal set. That's my business moto. I don't sell it unless it is better then what I use. When I finish a set of customer dies, if I don't look at it and for a split second and think "I should keep this one for myself" I make it better till I do. Of course I never get to keep them for myself and have always had happy customers.

Good shooting

Brian

[rasto]

Duke I wasn't bugging via PM I was kindly asking if it is possible.
You told me NO and I accepted that without any begging.
I am a man and it is natural for us to know HOW THING WORKS.
After seeing BT's video and the mass production of good looking tips after being formed.
That is.

[Utah Shooter]

The people who jumped the gun, and went with the cheap swage sets are already bugging Brian for his point form die. Problem is (for them) that you can't take poorly made pre-forms, and expect that Brian's point form will magically fix them.


Not that I am aware of. Anyone that I have seen ask him (including myself) already have a set of "expensive" dies.

We are asking because the Corbin Set does not have the ogive of his. What is it an 9s Brian?

P.S. Those sure do look slick. Still am saving for the 40 cal die.

[Salmon-boy]

Chuck,
You'll have enough lead to make bazillions of 224 "j words."
Brian is the guy to make the dies for you. One thing I have come to KNOW about Brian: You set will be even better than my set. And, I'm already very sure that my set is beyond my wild expectations.


Duke,
This is turning out to be the most expensive pile of dirt I've ever bought! :kidding:

Your demo sold me on Brian's .44cal swage set as well, but I think that will have to wait until my toy budget grows a little. My wife wants me to build her a purple anodized AR first!

Brian,
I'll await your PM. BTW, I think you should make Duke part of your sales force!

Thanks!
Chuck.

[DukeInFlorida]

BUT.......... you will never, in your lifetime, run out of lead.............

PURPLE and AR do not mix well in a single sentence. LOL

And, Brian has me on the frequent flier miles program. That's enough rewards for me.

Just start selling some lead, an you'll easily be able to afford all the dies sets and guns you need. Even purple ones.....


Duke,
This is turning out to be the most expensive pile of dirt I've ever bought! :kidding:

Your demo sold me on Brian's .44cal swage set as well, but I think that will have to wait until my toy budget grows a little. My wife wants me to build her a purple anodized AR first!

Brian,
I'll await your PM. BTW, I think you should make Duke part of your sales force!

Thanks!
Chuck.

[BT Sniper]

Took a few more video clips of cutting the lead wire and swaging the cores.

In 2 hours today with a few interuptions ( my little girls needs :) ) I cut and swaged 8.4lbs (according to bathroom scales) worth of 46 grain cores.

Did the math and that should be 1278 total cores ready to go. It equaled a butter tub full. Figured I had to stock up before I loaned out the swage die and cutter too probably.

For someone with some time on their hands, in only a few nights work you would have an awfully lot of cores or bullets for that matter ready to go.

The key to speed in production in every step of the process if you haven't notice me saying it yet :) is the automatic ejector. My right hand never leaves the handel of the press. Not only is it quicker but it is less fatuge so you don't get tired swinging a mallet, and it is quite so you don't wake the wife or neighbors.

I'll have some more videos and pics of the process to post soon.

Good shooting BT

[BT Sniper]

Here are a couple more short 1 minute videos on teh operation of my BTSniper 22 cal swage dies.

CLICK ON PICS TO SEE VIDEOS


Cutting lead wire to length and weight of about 48 grains. Goes very fast!
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/th_P1070334.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/?action=view&current=P1070334.mp4)


Swage cores to 46.0 grains. I did 1280 of these in 2 hours.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/th_P1070335-1.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/?action=view&current=P1070335-1.mp4)



Here is the results

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070342.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070345.jpg


Here is the pile of "bleed" off lead. Figure I'll use it for somthing or remelt it to make more bullets!

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070343.jpg

BT

[DeanWinchester]

You say a 55g bullet; What would be involved in making a heavier one? I shoot 7 twist rifles a lot and they like heavier bullets. Maybe 75g?

[BT Sniper]

Making heavier bullets is not a problem, simply add more lead by adjusting the core swage die and length of the wire cut. The die has plenty of room to cover any sane bullet weight for 22 cals, probably atleast up to 100 grains.

Here is a 69 grain bullet with 22LR jacket made in my dies. Above 56 grain bullet weight you start to get a lead tip when using the 22LR jacket . Obviously the heavier you go the more lead exposed. The other option is to trim 22 mag brass for jackets. I plan to try mag jackets soon myself.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060883.jpg

BT

[runfiverun]

anyone reading this thread should know that the other die sets sold round here are NOT compatible with brians.
ordering just his 2 dies will not work with th stuff you allready got.
most of the other make the jaxkets at 224 and the core seater bumps them up to 228.
ain't no way you are gonna shove that in his 8-9s point form die.
you will need/want his entiire set-up or to go with a corbin set up if the core seater comes out under 224.
there are a couple of way's around this, but it's more press time and more tools.
buy the quality and be done with it.

[Utah Shooter]

So what if my set does the core seat to .223?

[MIBULLETS]

What I would do if you really want this die, is ask BT if you can send him a few seated cores from your dies. This way he can decide if he is happy with the product they make together or if it won't work. That is assuming BT agrees of course.

[Utah Shooter]

^^Great idea.

[BT Sniper]

I'm 99% sure my dies will work with seated cores formed in Corbin dies. I would certainly think that his core seat die will make a seated core/jacket combo under .224. I could test any seated core/jacket you wish to send me. I can tell you the first thing I would do is mic it to make sure it is under then I'm sure there would be no problems. I wouldn't even bother sending anything over .2240

There are still a few tricks I think I have developed that may just lead to a better bullet from 22LR brass that maybe Corbin isn't offering and those tricks start with the derim die and continue on to the core seat die. It is still my impression that the set will work best as I have designed it "as a set" but for those of you with Corbin equipment feel free to send me some samples. Lets see what we can do!

BT

[Utah Shooter]

Do you mind sharing some of these tricks?

Like what does the Corbin de rim die not do? I personally am after a de rim die that there is no line in the brass after de rimming and before annealing.

I am not trying to be facetious. I really want whatever can make these thing shine.

[runfiverun]

best way to do that would be with a tapered de-rim die that would force the case against the stem.
you might not ever get rid of the line fully though.
because that would also thin and elongate the jacket.

[BT Sniper]

Different brands have different thickness of brass. You guys must have noticed the Federal 22lr brass is .7 grains heavier and thicker in the base then any of the rest? This brass always "draws" down and eliminates the line vs. simply pushing threw the die to unfold it. I'll have to pay more attention to the line, I think that the core seat step can help to get rid of that line too.

As far as secerets or tricks........let me get a few dies on the market first.

BT

[Reload3006]

I'm 99% sure my dies will work with seated cores formed in Corbin dies. I would certainly think that his core seat die will make a seated core/jacket combo under .224. I could test any seated core/jacket you wish to send me. I can tell you the first thing I would do is mic it to make sure it is under then I'm sure there would be no problems. I wouldn't even bother sending anything over .2240

There are still a few tricks I think I have developed that may just lead to a better bullet from 22LR brass that maybe Corbin isn't offering and those tricks start with the derim die and continue on to the core seat die. It is still my impression that the set will work best as I have designed it "as a set" but for those of you with Corbin equipment feel free to send me some samples. Lets see what we can do!

BT
my seated cores come out around .2235 then when I point form they go up to ,224 hope it helps.

[BT Sniper]

Yep, that is as it should be.

BT

[Smokin7mm]

Making heavier bullets is not a problem, simply add more lead by adjusting the core swage die and length of the wire cut. The die has plenty of room to cover any sane bullet weight for 22 cals, probably atleast up to 100 grains.

Here is a 69 grain bullet with 22LR jacket made in my dies. Above 56 grain bullet weight you start to get a lead tip when using the 22LR jacket . Obviously the heavier you go the more lead exposed. The other option is to trim 22 mag brass for jackets. I plan to try mag jackets soon myself.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060883.jpg

BT

You can use either 17HMR or 22mag and trim them back. I made a bunch of 100gr 22cal bullets for a guy out of 22mag. He was shooting a 22BR XP-100 that had a 1-6" twist. He said they shot very well. Point of caution. The bullets at 100gr have a very long bearing surfaced so start low (way low) from any data for 80-90gr bullets. My friend started 10% below his normal load for a 90gr and had to hammer the bolt open. Once he got the right load he said they shot very well, as good or better than the Sierra 90MK.

Bret

[BT Sniper]

Thanks Bret. I haven't took the time yet to make any heavies from the mag cases. I've sized down a few but I'll need to experiment a bit first. Did you trim before derim?

BT

[alfloyd]

"Cutting lead wire to length and weight of about 48 grains."

Brian:
That lead wire and core cutter looks very familer. :)
Glad to see that you are getting some use out of them.

Lafaun

[BT Sniper]

Yep works like a champ. Any idea who it was made by?

[BT Sniper]

It is on the way! Just sent out this first set of 22 cal dies today. They look pretty darn good! Customer should have them Thursday!

Good Shooting!

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

THIS customer can't wait!!! (SMILE!)

I made a core chopper from a couple of pieces of angle iron. They are filed flat faced, and have a pivot point. I drilled a slightly oversize hole through the iron, and positioned a stop plate to handle the same length every chop. The chopped pieces are at 49 grains. BT Sniper says that I need to core swage to 46 grains, so I think I am good.

I'm using a Lafaun extruder to make lead wire. I had been running 50-50 alloy (pure lead/wheel weights), but will start using pure range lead for the extruding.

I have a bunch of de-rimmed brass, which I need to anneal. Am going to arrange a couple of rows of long finish nails on a board, and will hity each piece of brass with a propane torch until it glows. Will dump onto a baking sheet to cool. I plan on doing the Lemi-shine soak until bright, and then rinse, and tumble for a few hours in walnut shell media.

Once I get the process working like Brian's, I will post images of my process steps as an aid to others.

[Salmon-boy]

Talk about not being able to wait... Just paid for my set of dies, now for the long, hard, trying job of being patient.. :-D

[DukeInFlorida]

well worth the wait, Chuck.

Smelt some range lead to keep yourself occupied in the mean time. Lord knows that will keep you busy for ages.

[Salmon-boy]

Duke, My wife will tell you that I'm not good at being patient.. And yes, digging in the dirt has kept me occupied.. When it's not raining.. Otherwise I've been busy breaking presses swaging primer pockets.

As far as melting, what do you use for ingot moulds when processing large quantities??

[BT Sniper]

A bump for a thread that might answer a few commonly asked questions as to how we make 22 cal bullets.

BT

[gunner312]

Swagers in my area?
Is there anyone in my area that swages bullets?
I have read about the process but, I am unfamiliar
with the actual process and equipment.

I live in Belfair, WA. Near Bremerton and Port Orchard on the Olympic Peninsula.

I'd really like to see how it's done. I've watched video on youtube but while it might be informative I still want to see the actual equipment and process close-up.

Help?

Jim Wright