My SPRUE CUTTER

[RoGrrr]

I've been hitting the sprue cutter on my 4 cavity 45 caliber mold with a wooden hammer handle. It's essentially a 1-1/2 inch hardwood dowel and after just a couple thousand boolits, it is showing a LOT of wear. So I decided to make a jig to eliminate the mallet.
The first is the jig to show its design. The second pic is the use of the jig. I KNOW, it's backwards but gives a better idea how it's to be used than hiding the mold behind the jig bar.
This makes it so easy to cut the sprues, saving time and effort. The bolts are 5/16" cap screws but any hex head bolt will work. I have a bunch of these so I used them.

=http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_167434f9f2129de53c.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5013)

[1Shirt]

Not a bad idea. Think however that the slickest to come along in a long time is that on the 6 cav. lee molds.
1Shirt!

[RoGrrr]

Shirt
I haven't seen that type so when I go to the next gun show I'll look for it. The 6-cav Lee won't fit under my Lee pot so I didn't even consider it. I got a Lyman 4-cavity mold for the 45 and it just barely fits. What I'd like to have is a 20 Lb pot. These 255 grain boolits go thru the lead really quickly. I'd asked my brother to borrow his Lyman pot (so I could run 2 pots at once. He used to cast MANY years ago but gave it up since he pretty much gave up shooting) but he has so much junk in his garage he cant find it. I kinda gave up on that one.

[runfiverun]

i just push the cutter open with my thumb...
it's sure a lot easier on the mold.

[RoGrrr]

Run
Even with the fixture I made, it is extremely hard to cut the sprues. I would not be able to push it with my thumb or hand. That's why I made the jig. It works very well too, I might add.
What I really need is a bigger pot.
I just did a search for the Magma and my mouth is watering over their master caster. While I like it and could justify spending the money on it, they don't have the bullet I want. I shoot the 255 grain Keith bullets in my 45ACP at bowling pins and want to throw a pickup truck full of lead. I suppose I could modify a Lyman mold to fit but I haven't checked the sizes of them.

[MikeS]

Have you tried a Lee 6 cavity mould? With the nut cracker style handles that you have on your Lyman mould, it's as long as a Lee 6 cavity mould is with the Lee 6 cavity handles on them. (they're a plier type handle) I don't know what kind of pot you have, as there are very few pots that can't handle a Lee 6 cavity mould, I've even used H&G 10 cavity moulds with my Lee pot.

Also, if you use a proper mould lube (BullPlate, or similar) you can open the sprue plate while the lead is still soft without it causing lead streaks. If you wait for the lead to fully harden, then it's hard to open the sprue plate, but I've found with my brass & iron 4 cavity moulds that I don't have any problem opening the sprue plate. I see you joined the forum a while ago, but haven't done much posting, I hope you've done more reading here, as you will learn more about using your moulds than anywhere else.

[runfiverun]

i just use thier pot and lyman 4 cav molds.
pour, count 4-5, push open, then dump the sprue back in the pot.
i hardly use either one of my master casters any more [the wife uses one]
i use the pot though and love it.
no drips, two [or one] hole to fill cavity's, consistent heat,i can warm molds and ingots on top,control my pour rate, and add ingots without affecting the temp.

[runfiverun]

b.t.w.
i have several lyman and rcbs molds modified to fit the master caster.
my most accurate 30 cal rifle boolits are cast on the master caster.
but i can cast faster with most of my 4 cavs and do a quality job at the same time.
i also like to waterdrop some of my rifle boolits so the option of both ways is real nice.

[Catshooter]

Ro,

Here's a thought for you that may or may not help.

Looking at the top of your sprue cutter (where the lead actually flows into the cavity) you see that angled cut in the steel? Sometimes Lyman doesn't run the cutter in as deep as they should. That angled cut is what "sharpens" the whole thing and helps it cut. Make sense?

Lyman seems to normally leave a little straight area at the bottom of that angled cut. It is usually about 1/64th of an inch or so. Maybe one or more of your's aren't deep enough and have too long a straight piece? That can make it quite a bit harder to cut the sprues off.

This tool: http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/Countersinks/1740.html is what you can use to deepen that angled cut. These guys, while good guys have a $25 minimum charge but countersinks are available in lots of places, even most Home Depots.

I'm in no way a machinist but have some small skills in the area. I cast with Lyman almost exclusively and have noticed from time to time that some moulds seem to cut the sprue harder than others and this seems to be why. When I've deepened the countersinks they then cut much easier. It doesn't take much to make quite a difference sometimes.

Hope this can be of some help and good luck.


Cat

[ku4hx]

I never knew opening the mold was such a chore. I mostly use, pretty much exclusively use, Lee six cavity molds. That long plate handle has ample leverage.

On the other molds with little stubs on the plate (Lyman specifically) I just pick up my 10" piece of stainless steel pipe, slip it over the stub and use it as a "helper" bar. Cheap, simple and effective. Relieves a bit of the boredom waiting for the lead to cool too.

[mdi]

Good idea. No criticism here or telling you what you should do, or how to do it better, just a thanks for sharing your tool with us.[smilie=p:

[Mk42gunner]

I used an 8 OZ plastic dead blow hammer for years, until I read about using a gloved hand and cutting the sprue earlier. Just don't set a hot mold on the hammer handle. Not admitting anything; but somehow I have a perfect imprint of the bottom of a Lyman DC in the handle of my hammer.

I thought I was the only one doing this; until I read the 4th ed. Lyman book, Mike V does it also (his didn't have the customized handle, though).

Robert

[RoGrrr]

EUREKA !

Catshooter, You hit the nail on the head. My Lyman mould is EXACTLY as you describe.
Looks like I'll have to chuck the sprue cutter in my Bridgeport and do some cutting on it. I haven't measured the countersink angle yet but it's not critical and I'll be able to sharpen the edge to the point that it will CUT rather than bulldoze the sprue.

Thank you so much for that tip !


Next thing I'll have to do is repair my 450 sizer/luber. The pressure screw broke at the bottom and my initial weld repair didn't hold so I'll have to reweld it so I won't have to spend over $20 for a new one.


Ro,

Here's a thought for you that may or may not help.

Looking at the top of your sprue cutter (where the lead actually flows into the cavity) you see that angled cut in the steel? Sometimes Lyman doesn't run the cutter in as deep as they should. That angled cut is what "sharpens" the whole thing and helps it cut. Make sense?

Lyman seems to normally leave a little straight area at the bottom of that angled cut. It is usually about 1/64th of an inch or so. Maybe one or more of your's aren't deep enough and have too long a straight piece? That can make it quite a bit harder to cut the sprues off.

This tool: http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/Countersinks/1740.html is what you can use to deepen that angled cut. These guys, while good guys have a $25 minimum charge but countersinks are available in lots of places, even most Home Depots.

I'm in no way a machinist but have some small skills in the area. I cast with Lyman almost exclusively and have noticed from time to time that some moulds seem to cut the sprue harder than others and this seems to be why. When I've deepened the countersinks they then cut much easier. It doesn't take much to make quite a difference sometimes.

Hope this can be of some help and good luck.


Cat

[John Boy]

Even with the fixture I made, it is extremely hard to cut the sprues. I would not be able to push it with my thumb or hand. Your mold and melt temperatures are not hot enough. I glove the Lee 6 cavity after the sprue puddles frost after 5 seconds. Never have an issue except one time when the melt was not hot enough and I stupidly broke the handle instead of swiping the mold with a propane torch

[RoGrrr]

Catshooter
I dug out a Weldon 100 degree countersinker which was exactly what the sprue cutter is. Well, I'da used it anyway, no matter what the angle is. The plate cleaned up nicely and I should be able to cut sprues a lot easier now. Unfortunately, I won't be able to cast any til Monday. I'll let you know what the sitrep is then.
Thanks, again.

[RoGrrr]

Now what I have to do is figure out a way to keep the screws holding the sprue plate at the correct tension. The lock washer Lyman uses isn't all that good and even tho I bent it to add tension, it's not hardened enough to hold the tension. I have to find one that is better. There's also a fair amount of galling in the pivot area where the sprue plate rotates on the block. Also, the shoulder screw is kinda chewed up where the set screw locks it. The stop screw that locates the plate is worn; unfortunately, Lyman didn't install an allen screw to hold it.
I got the mould used so....

[Catshooter]

RoGrrr,

I'm glad that that was the trouble. From your description it sounded like a whole lot more force was needed than normal.

Ah yes, the sprue plate screws. *sigh* They can be tough. If there wasn't so much heat involved it would just be greased and the locking screw would work a treat. However . . .

The first thing I would check is to make sure that when the screw is tightened, how does the plate lay on the top of the mould? I had one mould that the far end from the pivot screw was over .015 above the mould. And it could go the other way, it could be forced down.

You may want to check the top of the mould for flat too.

Fortuneatly the pivot screw is still being made the same today as it was in it's begining so Lyman can sell you more if you need it. If it's locking surface is too chewed up by the locking screw then as the locking screw is tightened the pivot screw will try to rotate. I hold a screw driver in the pivot screw as I tighten the lock screw to keep the adjustment true.

One one mould I even went so far as to get some silver inpregnated heat transfer grease (Radio Shack) and used that under the pivot screw and the top and bottom of the plate. It is really intended for heat transfer but it is also, because of the silver a good high temp grease. Not cheap though, a tube that would fit in your ear was $10.

You may be finding out just why the mould was for sale. :)

Good luck!


Cat

[RoGrrr]

Cat
What I found as I used the mould is that all the screws were loose and I had to play with the Sprue pivot after I used a fine smooth file to clean off the galling. Same for the block - lots of galling. I also had a big grinding/binding in the handle pivot. But I wasn't worried about that. I knew I could remove it, smooth out the bearing surfaces and put in a shoulder bolt and adjust preload. Same with the shoulder screw for the plate after I clean it up.

Shoulder screws are shoulder screws and I have no heartburn with them. Yes, this is probably why he sold it. He got it working/feeling good and put it on ebay. I don't mind a project but it does bother me that I paid that much for it when I could have gotten a new one for maybe $30 more. haha

I had checked the clearnace/interference between the plate and block and tightened the plate so there was almost no light showing. But it still managed to work loose - galling. No biggie.... And I did see rebuild kits for Lyman moulds so I'm not worried at all. But I will talk with the designers/engineers and get their rationale for not countersinking to a sharp edge. That DOES bother me. Maybe they feel that if a nick is introduced, it will score the block. I guess they think (thanks to their expensive darn lawyers) that EVERYBODY is stupid and can't maintain/tune their moulds/equipment.

I use NEVER SEEZ on manifold and muffler nuts. It withstands higher heat than the lead furnace so I might try that. I hadn't thought of it til you just mentioned it. It's about $10 for maybe 6 ounces.

I bought a Dillon, knowing I could make it work, since I have experience with old TEXAN shotshell presses in the 60s and plenty of other machine tool experience. If I need to weld, I can do that too.

And I also have HEAVY DRAFT beer....

[Catshooter]

You know, the Never Seez is a good idea.

The Heavy Draft beer can't hurt either . . . :)


Cat

[RoGrrr]

Cat
I was surprised at how chewed up the locking portion of the screw is. I'd thought of building it up with my mig welder but I don't know if my ER70 wire will take a heat treat. I'd really like to harden the screw so I can really crank down on it, but not being a professional machinist, nor a metallurgist, nor a welder I don't know what I'm doing. I also have a high temp furnace/kiln with an electronic controller/thermostat/thermometer so I can control things. Wish I knew what steel, etc....
I'll talk with the Lyman people and get some ideas from them.
I tightened the plate pivot screw and looked to see if there was any light 'leaking' between the block and plate. I saw some, which accounted for some of the extra leakage (I don't know what word to use to describe it) but when I cleaned up the galling, it seemed to help that and I don't see any light. (OK, go ahead and tell me that I'm in the dark !) I'll also check the mold surface for planarity. I have a surface plate and some dial indicators so I won't be totally in the dark as far as to knowing what I have.
It's a good thing that this stuff is a hobby as I spend more time playing around with it than what some people would justify as to "why don't you just BUY the damn boolits ?!?"
Well, screw them....

[Catshooter]

You're welcome Ro.

The human eye can generaly detect a strong light through a .001 gap. Pretty tough to see it through much smaller.

I would steer you away from both hardening the screw and "really cranking down on it". If you use an Allen head set screw for a locking screw you'll get all the torque you need to keep the pivot screw in place. More than you need, actually. The older slot-headed set screws work just fine, usually.

You can surface plate and dial the top of the mould if you care to, but it's not what's needed. What's really needed is just that the top is just flat, flat to within about .001 to .002 across it's length. You can do that easily with a file, generally.

To get the ultimate in accuracy from the boolit, yes everything needs to be as perfect as you can get, but you wouldn't be using a four gang Lyman mould if that was your goal.

Once you get the galling all gone and get a new, fresh pivot screw, and get the bottom of the sprue plate flattened, and the top of the mould flattened, then grease 'em and put 'em together. Adjust the pivot screw until the sprue plate swings with the tension you like and tighten it down with the set screw. Done. Yes there will be some crushing of the bottom of the pivot screw. You don't care.

In fact, when I'm doing this sort of tune up with a mould I just barely snug the set screw up the first time. Then I heat the mould to casting temp and then I set the pivot screw to where I like it and lock it down.

Asking the Lyman people for help. Well, good luck with that one. As far as anyone can tell, there isn't anyone working for Lyman who shoots, let alone casts.

Have fun.


Cat

[RoGrrr]

Catshooter
I finally got around to casting some and since I countersunk the sprue cutter, it works a lot better. Again, thank you for your suggestion of deepening the cut.
My "new" problem now is to get my MAGMA BULLET MASTER going. I bought one of the 3 that was for sale on ebay. While it is complete, there are PLENTY of problems with it.
I need to completely rewire the controls but that isn't a problem for me. First, I need to clean it up and get rid of all the sprayed lead and burned grease.
Then get the motor running and sequence it so the moulds go round and stop where the have to.
Then position the pot over its "home" position.
Then set it up so the pot pours INTO the moulds. It has an 8-mould carousel which has the capability of making about 2000 cast boolits per hour !
Once I figure out all the 'ins-and-outs' of it, I shoudl be in boolits for life.
What I then need is a set (ONE set is EIGHT) of 255 grain 45 caliber boolit mould blocks. I have a set of 9mm moulds so I can start to 'polish' my technique with that one.

Anyway, I'm looking for someone, ANYONE, who has a BULLET MASTER so I can watch and ask questions and learn about the machine I have.

RoGrrr

[runfiverun]

should be some videos on the u-tube.
you don't need all one type of mold either, if you have 8 different molds that are within about 50-60 grs of each other you can run 8 different molds.

[RoGrrr]

While I understand that I don't have to run all the same, I only have one set of 9mm moulds and another set of, maybe 35 cal RIFLE moulds without sprue cutters. (I should post pics and try to sell them here. Or maybe on ebay)
I'd like to have them modified for 45ACP 255 grain but the existing cut is too long/deep for what I want to do.


should be some videos on the u-tube.
you don't need all one type of mold either, if you have 8 different molds that are within about 50-60 grs of each other you can run 8 different molds.

[Catshooter]

You're welcome RoGrrr, glad it helped.


Cat

[edctexas]

A suggestion for the set screw holding the sprue plate pivot screw from turning. Put a small bit of copper wire in the setscrew hole. then use the set screw to push against the pivot screw. This prevents buggering the threads on the pivot screw. I think I read this idea on the Noe mold forum. Anyway, it does work. You might use a hard piece of shot. The hard shot will not melt at mold temps.

Ed C