Am i just asking for trouble

[rhouser]

I am working up a really accurate CB for my 375 H&H. I have the Lyman 375449 with GC cast at about Lyman 2 hardness and sized to .377 with the sizer I got from Lees Custom site. I have arrived at 36 grains of 5744 like so many others have (from reading the posts). I will have to play from here to take out the flyers.

Here is my issue. Up to now, I have just been double dipping with 45-45-10 LLA rather that switching to a pan lube. I am getting such good 100 yard accuracy, I am tempted to stay with this. This is NOT an LLA bullet but has LOTS of lube groove space (especially at these velocities). Can I just use the LLA for this load or am I going to be scraping lead out of the bore. I have only run about 40 rounds of this bullet (I got the mould last week), but, it is hands down amazing in my gun at about this velocity.

Opinions please, because I am going to switch over to this bullet and the LLA IS easy. Since I have been shooting about 100 rounds each weekend in arriving at this point, this new bullet will become my standard. I just need to decide about the lube. Up to know I have only used the LLA for LLA bullets or for "quick testing" of a few new bullets.

thanks in advance. rc

[leftiye]

I don't like mule snot, I've seen 45-45-10 lead at 900 fps in a .45 acp. So I rate it only slightly better than mule snot. If you really are going to get perfectionist about that .375, start with a real lube. Lotak has not leaded in some loads as high as 3600 fps. Carnauba red I've never seen lead. It must not lead before you can even start worrying about accuracy. Conversely just because it doesn't lead doesn't guarantee a thing about accuracy. Geargnasher tests his lubes against a standard load that has proven accurate. This load with his lubes shoots into 3/4 MOA at 100 yds (=3/4 inch).

You seem to have maybe fitted your boolit to the gun pretty well, and are on the right track.

[zuke]

Skip the lube and learn to paper patch.
The lead never touch's the barrel so there's never any leading.

[rhouser]

leftiye, thanks for your input. I have used the LLA successfully in the 11 different lee molds (read Ranch Dog) in the 8 calibers I shoot with CB. I am not anti LLA although I give you the fact that it is messy.

On the Lyman 449 in my gun, Yeah the fit is ok. I slugged at .3756 with my mike. I have tested with .381 as cast, .380, .379, and .377 (+ some 376 as cast). They will all chamber using hornady brass.

I have two different sized expanding mandrals available .376 and .379 I used to set case neck for the bigger bullets. I tested with 5 different bullets before I ordered in the lyman 449 (I shoot a couple of 38-55s so I had a variety of 3/8 inch bullets and a couple of molds to start with). The 449 really works in my rifle.

I am very close to finding a really tight load combination, but, the Lube will now be the thing. I just didn't want to blow this load back out into a 2" circle. I guess I just need to take the plunge. I may try making some Felix lube since I have all the ingrediants. I guess I could order some storebought.

Zuke, I am amazed by what you PP guys can do. I am dancing as fast as I can just keeping the CB's on the paper. I am only a year into the casting my own and working just to make a good bullet.

Thanks to all who make this forum great. rc

[Catshooter]

rhouser,

To me it's all about the results. If after 40 rounds you're getting the accuracy you want and don't have any leading . . . well, I'd call that good to go. Doesn't sound like a waste to me.


Cat

[williamwaco]

rhouser,

To me it's all about the results. If after 40 rounds you're getting the accuracy you want and don't have any leading . . . well, I'd call that good to go. Doesn't sound like a waste to me.


Cat


+1

I love LLA in handguns and rifles.

You can see my LLA test results here:

http://www.reloadingtips.com/pages/exp_111201a_lla_test.htm


.

[Larry Gibson]

rhouser

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That load is working for you so why fix it? I preffer the LLA straight myself and have found it works for me. However I use a 450 sizer with my 375449s for my 375 H&H. I also size them at .377 with complete satisfaction and excellent accuracy. I use Javelina lube which is a 50/50 as is the LLA. I tweaked 5744 several different ways with that bullet and found 36 gr to be my load at 1850 fps or so also. However, if you push that bullet faster you may want to pan lube to fill the lube grooves. I highly recommend Javeliana or 2500+ for that.

Larry Gibson

[rhouser]

Thanks to all who responded, but, I have a couple of questions back. Let me start by saying that I have been using only Ranch Dog molds since I started casting about a year ago for my rifles and then my pistols (which all seem to match the caliber of my Marlin rifles). I have never used any lube except LLA (45/45/10) and all my molds were made for it.

Larry, I agree that I need to step out of the nest and go on to the next step. Here are my initial thoughts (again, remember that these are uninformed thoughts, but, they are mine).

1. I don't want to top punch my bullets. I really like the control I get from the Lee pass through sizers. A plus is I can go on the lee web site and order any diameter that pleases me for $35 dollars or so.

2. Pan lubing looks inherently logical to me, but, there will be no pressure squeezing the lube into the grooves so it may not be as good as at looks to me.

3. I don't want another step where I have to purchase special equipment and requires me to learn another set of skills to stay where I am.

My 375 load appears to be SIGNIFICANTLY better than MOA at 100 yards with the 449 bullet. The groups are consistant with as many bullets as I want to fire (10 shot groups) until the barrel is too hot to touch (oops). Note: I am not committing to how much better till I do more testing and tweaking. I have gotten all excited in the past finding a "wonder load" that does everything I dreamed of only to have it fall apart when the temprature changed or the moon switched cycles.

All, will pan lubing work out? Larry: Where can I find Javelina lube and can it be used as a pan lube?

Again, thanks to all for your patience. rc

[Larry Gibson]

All, will pan lubing work out? Larry: Where can I find Javelina lube and can it be used as a pan lube?

Yes, pan lubing will work fine. The bullets are set in the pan and then the lube is melted (electic burner with just enough heat to melt lube) around the bullets which fills the lube grooves just fine. Add just enough lube so the top groove you want filled is full. The heat is truned off and the lube allowed to harden. A Kake cutter of proper diameter is then pushed over each bullet to cut them out of the lube leaving lube in the grooves. A good kake cutter can easily be made out of a fired case. That leaves holes in the lube in the lube in the pan and you can then just set new bullets in the holes, remelt and do it again. Add small amounts of lube between melts to make up for lube in/on the bullets. I'd lube with sized and GC'd bullets and then push through the Lee sizer again to clena up the bullets if needed.

Go to Midways site and puch "Javelina" in the search box. It's not listed in the catelog for some reason but they have it. Picture is of the old lee lube pan and kake cutter they sold before they came up with LLA.

Larry Gibson

[excess650]

If your load is working as well as you say, why mess with it? Maybe modify your lube method by holding the individual boolits by the nose and just dipping the shank.

That boolit performs well on game at velocity lower than you're running, so unless you're trying to flatten the trajectory, what you're doing is golden.[smilie=w:

Yes, you can panlube, but be aware that some lubes cause lube purging flyers as a result of too much lube. I'm shooting a 7.62x39 full tilt with 160gr and lube only the small gap between the gascheck and bottom driving band. Lube in the frist groove causes the groups to open.

[swheeler]

I am working up a really accurate CB for my 375 H&H. I have the Lyman 375449 with GC cast at about Lyman 2 hardness and sized to .377 with the sizer I got from Lees Custom site. I have arrived at 36 grains of 5744 like so many others have (from reading the posts). I will have to play from here to take out the flyers.

Here is my issue. Up to now, I have just been double dipping with 45-45-10 LLA rather that switching to a pan lube. I am getting such good 100 yard accuracy, I am tempted to stay with this. This is NOT an LLA bullet but has LOTS of lube groove space (especially at these velocities). Can I just use the LLA for this load or am I going to be scraping lead out of the bore. I have only run about 40 rounds of this bullet (I got the mould last week), but, it is hands down amazing in my gun at about this velocity.

Opinions please, because I am going to switch over to this bullet and the LLA IS easy. Since I have been shooting about 100 rounds each weekend in arriving at this point, this new bullet will become my standard. I just need to decide about the lube. Up to know I have only used the LLA for LLA bullets or for "quick testing" of a few new bullets.

thanks in advance. rc

So did you get any lead/loss of accuracy after 40 rounds? I think only you can answer your question:)

[canyon-ghost]

As far as no pressure putting lube in the grooves- pan lubing is done with hot lube, should stick as well or better. It's not a factor. A lubesizer is just neater, and in some cases, faster.

[rhouser]

swheeler: I had no leading at all in the first 40 rounds, in fact, in the 200 plus rounds of various cast, I have had no leading. These included LLA lubed Ranch Dog GCs I cast, Oragon Trail Laser Cast PBs (store-bought with conventional lube grooves pre-filled), and Cast Performance GC commercial (again with conventional lube grooves). I have used various powders and velocities. The big constant is that I have used nothing sized smaller than .377

canyon-ghost: Thanks for the information on the efficacy of pan lubing. It is not so much an issue of speed with me as a question of needing a new set of skills with a "lube-sizer". I also won't need to worry about top punches, squashing bullets, etc. I think I can manage the technical requirements of filling and cooling a pan of bullets and lube. I might even get away with using SWMBO's oven for this (if she is not home and the pan doesn't smoke). I have my own pan.

excess600: I have just finished the 2nd LLA app on the 100 449s I am planning to work with this weekend. I will be working the OAL to lands test and trying a couple of sets of magnum primers along with the Tulas I have been using. If I get no leading, then, I will stick with LLA for this load, but, I will then want to see what this bullet will do if I light it up a touch for a 300 - 400 yard test. I may just pull out the 260 AB's (yeah I know.... ugly copper stuff) for this idea and leave the cast velocity where it is at. I can't help but wonder if there is another NODE out there with another powder or bigger charge of the 5744. Ahh, thats what makes this such an interesting caliber.

Larry, thanks for the guidence on the Javalina and the simple explanation on how to execute the Pan Lube. I am trying to figure what to use as a Kake Cutter. I dropping at .381 or so and this leaves me looking at all the ID measurments of my existing inventories to see what will work.

Again, thanks to all for your help.

rc

[Larry Gibson]

A fired case should work as a kake cutter if that .381 bullet will slip fit in it. Drill out the flashole so a .22 cal cleaning rod section or dmall dowel can be used to push the bullets out of the case. Or uo can drill out the head large enough the bullets push through. Wrap several turns of duct tape around the sase leaving enough of the case neck to cut through the lube. This gives a better "handle" on the cutter. The sharpen the the case mouth slightly inside and out with a camfer tool.

Larry Gibson

[TCTex]

The best group I have EVER shot involved my 26in Encore chambered in 375 H&H. The load was 35gr of 4198 and a Lyman 264 that I purchased from Moyers Cast Bullets. (I do know it was sized at 377 if that helps any…) 5 shots at 100 yards that you could cover with a dime.
I just bought the mold last week and I am going to start having fun. Casting has revitalized several “old-er” cartridges that have been safe queans just because of the cost of feeding them…

[rhouser]

TCTex... I had to go over to the Moyers Website to look. They are using the Lyman #375296
mould for that bullet. This is the other of the 2 "traditional" 375 H&H moulds that I found discussed most in my research. Let me know how it works out in your Encore. My results with the Lyman #375449 have been very similar to yours, but, I havn't shot enough loads to believe that is will be the consistant standard for this load (but my fingers are crossed).
rh

[TCTex]

LOL, I am so new to casting conical bullets I am still having a hard time remembering which bullet is which…

Thanks for putting up with me… I guess I need to go my old route, when in doubt, and state it was the 264 Lyman…

Duane