NEW TURNULL 1886's

[Win86]

Doug Turnbull is now releasing orders his newest 1886 lever rifle built on the Chiappa rifles. Looking for some feedback on these guns specifically if anyone has purchased and fired one. Doug has showed them at several gun shows the past year and they sure are purdy to look at!

Win86

[Slam'n Salmon]

Are those the ones that cost as much as a 2 week family vacation?[smilie=l:

[smoked turkey]

I think the cost is more along the line of a European Vacation including first class air fare from some place real far away. He certainly does some of the best work I've seen, but quite expensive. I have a project or two that I would love for him to do but its not in my future.

[TXGunNut]

I think I saw one @ Cabelas but didn't notice it being based on a Chiappa. Attractively priced just under $16K. Think it's still there. :coffeecom

[pdawg_shooter]

For 16K it will just have to stay there. That's about 10 years of play money for me!

[Gunlaker]

I think I saw one @ Cabelas but didn't notice it being based on a Chiappa. Attractively priced just under $16K. Think it's still there. :coffeecom

That one will be a restored original. The reproductions are a lot cheaper. But still not cheap :mrgreen:

Chris.

[Win86]

No, these are new release rifle not his big dollar restorations of antiques. Cost is $2695.00 as shown on their website, turnbullrestorations.com - They come in 45-70 and 45-90 to start with.Turnbull is having parts made by Chaippa of 4140 steel getting them right off the machines and in the white then doing the fit and finish at Turnbull in New York. Rifles are combo of rust blue, charcoal blue and color case hardened. My friends saw one at the Denver Gun show last year and they each ordered one. Turnbull was there showing his new rifle and evidently it got lots of attention. All parts are 100% interchangable with Winchesters original rifles, no tang safety and no rebound hammer. The are modern steels as well so pressures, for those liking high velocity and or jacketed bullets, will be very attainable. This may mean once enough parts are available, owners of original 86's can perhaps purchase replacement parts for their older riflles. Ever try finding an 86 case lifter, hammer or trigger assembly? Anyway, take a look, no charge.

Win86

[TXGunNut]

That doesn't sound too bad after all. Almost reasonable if it's up to his usual standards.

[Jon K]

That doesn't sound too bad after all. Almost reasonable if it's up to his usual standards.

BUT IT'S STILL A CHIAPPA...track record not real good. Unless only buying to display.

Jon

[TXGunNut]

BUT IT'S STILL A CHIAPPA...track record not real good. Unless only buying to display.

Jon

I can see where that would be a sticking point for some folks. I just don't think DT would offer a rifle that wouldn't hold up under real-world use. I suspect many of the rifles that leave his shop seldom actually go hunting but that's OK too. I won't buy a rifle I can't use for hunting but someday I may. I've seriously considered adding a DT rifle to my collection or having him work over one I have. If I was considering an 1886 I'd take a hard look @ this one.

[W.R.Buchanan]

For $19K he has Tom Sellecks 1881 Marlin in 32-40. It is an original gun that has undergone the Turnbull complete resto.

Nice gun but I don't know what I would do with it. We need a new car?

Randy

[405]

To be honest I've had mixed feelings about Turnbull's stuff for a long time. I see no problem taking a completely trashed antique Winchester and restoring it correctly. I also see no problem taking a modern Miroku Win 71 or 86 and turning it into some kind of "Alaskan" dino blaster. BUT, taking 5 pounds of Italian parts, adding 5 pounds of lipstick....hmmm? Not my bag, but more power to 'em if the market is there.

This 113 year old Win 86 in 45-70 may have some handling wear and the case color is washed out on the receiver and nose cap but it has 95% blue, tight flawless mechanics and a near pristine original bore plus it shoots like it has a near pristine bore :) and cost me exactly $300 more than the $2700 TB base price for the Italian assembly.

[TXGunNut]

Hard to argue with that. Italian metallurgy has a spotty history but I hope DT has secured good quality parts. I'd rather own a rifle like yours but those are difficult to find. Seem to be a few nice collections coming on the market as a result of estate sales these days so the market is improving, still takes some dedicated searching or considerable luck. Congrats on a fine rifle.

[405]

Seems like it is feast or famine when looking for old Winchesters. Here's the whole Win 86 herd. Top two are 33s (upper one is a takedown) and bottom two are 45-70s. All have excellent bores and shoot like it. All show honest use and wear but no abuse. All of them are original and correct to factory letter. I don't know how long I looked for a 45-70 with a really good bore. Found a bunch of them with pitted/worn bores. I guess all the BP and/or corrosive primed 45-70 ammo available then it took its toll on the 86s.

By price comparison, both of the 33s cost slightly less than a new Turnbull import re-do. The upper 45-70 in the pic cost exactly $300 more (lucky was at right place at right time as the seller didn't want to mess with an auction so I gave him a little more than the local gun store offered him). The bottom 45-70 is an early model and it cost about $1500 more than a new Turnbull import.

[PbHurler]

405,
I've got to admit, I'm jealous. That's a beautiful collection you've got there!
(Sorry for the hijack)

[Mr Humble]

At the risk of having a different viewpoint, I'd hardly agree that "Italian metal" has anything wrong with it. Benelli, Beratta, Ferrari, Maserati, Uberti and many more are not know to fall apart in the woods or on the road.

I have yet to see any road test of any quality Italian gun in any respected publication that is critical of it's quality and durability.

One wonders how many Turnbull original/restored guns, the folks calling his quality into question actually own or have even seen ? (I have two).

I'd certainly take his new 1886 over that jap one with the silly tang safety "Winchester" put out a few years ago. (owned one, it was a ***):smile:

[Mike Brooks]

I'd like to have a TB '86. To broke to do anything but dream for a while. He's supposed to have a 50-110 express offering in the future.

[bearcove]

My tastes don't go to the "nice" guns. Have my Marlins and Rossi, 6 in total and still have less than $2695 in them.

They are like my 2000 3/4 ton pickup. Guy at the shop says its a clean truck!

NO! It doesn't get washed much, but is in good shape, runs good, and will do the same job as the $50,000 one at the dealer. And when it dies I'll go find one like it for $5,000.

No payments either.

[TXGunNut]

Nice collection, 405! Bottom 45-70 is simply awesome, damn sure wouldn't kick the others out of my safe tho.
To be honest it's probably not fair to either gun to compare an original like yours to one from Turnbull's shop. Since I can't use buckhorn sights for hunting anymore either one would be merely eyecandy in my collection, would be proud to have either.

[405]

Nice collection, 405! Bottom 45-70 is simply awesome, damn sure wouldn't kick the others out of my safe tho.
To be honest it's probably not fair to either gun to compare an original like yours to one from Turnbull's shop. Since I can't use buckhorn sights for hunting anymore either one would be merely eyecandy in my collection, would be proud to have either.

Exactly right! Comparing repros to originals is like apples to oranges. There is a place for each variety. Decided to post these 86s here for comparison.

Hope this doesn't stray too far from the OP but sight selection and options would apply to both originals and repros- including the Turnbulls.

The upper 33, the takedown model, has a receiver sight. I always thought a takedown would never shoot quite as well as a solid. Potentially that could be true but this one may be an exception. It is one of the best cast bullet shooting original Win levers I have. Of course the receiver sight is bound to help. Agree about some of the barrel sights with the buckhorn, old eyes just aren't what they were at 20.

The upper 45-70 has the original tang peep while the lower 45-70 has a replacement I added. The tang peeps help similarly to receiver mounted ones.

Of all the types of sights these levers can have, I do best with an aperture- either the standard receiver mounted or the tang mounted or the bolt peep with the 71. If pressed to pick one best for my tastes/eyes it would be the standard receiver mounted type. BUT, I refuse to drill extra holes in originals so have to deal with them as they allow- most of the older ones don't come D&Td for receiver sights, while many of them are D&Td for a tang sight.

[TXGunNut]

The upper 33, the takedown model, has a receiver sight. I always thought a takedown would never shoot quite as well as a solid. Potentially that could be true but this one may be an exception.-405

I guess we've both seen sloppy TD's but I think the potential for greater rigidity in the action is certainly there. A well-made TD being a "shooter" wouldn't surprise me but I'm not a gunsmith, metallurgist, engineer or machinist. Didn't even sleep @ a Holiday Inn last night. :kidding:
A well-built rifle is a well-built rifle, simple as that.
Thanks for the eye candy!

[KirkD]

My sister-in-law lives about 15 minutes from Turnbull's shop so I've been there a few times and admired the guns in the rack. I would have no qualms whatsoever about the quality of those Turnbull 1886's. From what I've seen in his shop, the fellow is a perfectionist and an artist. Any rifle coming out of there is going to be top drawer.

[451whitworth]

i tend to agree with KirkD about the quality of the product. but when parting with my money i agree with 405. i would rather just get an original for a little more or a Browning repro for the same/less money (i have both).

[quasi]

I have to wonder why Turnbull is using the Italian parts instead of using the Japanese Miroku made Winchester's as a base. They are very nicely made.

[Jon K]

I have to wonder why Turnbull is using the Italian parts instead of using the Japanese Miroku made Winchester's as a base. They are very nicely made.

Profit Margin???

Jon

[John Taylor]

Turnbull is most likely getting the frames as 80% and doing the finish work. This way he is not importing firearms but he would need a manufactures license. I picked up a 92 frame that was unfinished and am slowly building it up. I can't sell it but I get to put what ever S/N on it that I want. The frame came from Steve's guns, he was planning on making mare's leg out of them because they had never been completed as a rifle. Then the Italians started make the mare's leg and shot his plans down.

[405]

Profit Margin???

Jon

That would be my guess also. And, probably easier to get basic parts and unfinished castings/forgings in quantity from one of the Italian companies than it would be to deal thru Miroku who has the contracts for the Brownchester finished guns. And it could be that DT would have to buy whole guns then negotiate the trademark rights, re-finish then remarket. All points toward profit margin and market resistance at the higher base price point that starting with a Miroku gun would cause. My guesses anyway.