High lead levels, help.

[Muddydogs]

How about ones in the know give me some in site to my blood lead levels. I needed to get some blood tests on 4/17 so I asked the doc to include a lead test so I had a base line. Well the test came back 9.3 ug/dl. Normal is 0.0 to 4.9 ug/dl. Needles to say this surprised the blankedy blank out of me.

I got back into reloading in November of 2011 and have loaded 3 or 4 thousand rounds since then. All the rounds loaded have been FMJ's and a few Grand Slam rifle bullets. Most there rounds have been processed on the LnL AP press with the spent primers going into a coffee can with sealed lid.

My first casting session was 4/11 where I cast 12 slugs. I did a little fluxing and got the reloading room a little smokey before the fan cleared it.

On 4/13 I smelted 80 pounds of wheel weights, I had the stove set up just inside a structure due to chances of rain and the breeze switched filling the structure with smoke from the wheel weights and wax flux. I shut the stove down and when cool enough I moved out in the open. On 4/13 I also cast 117 slugs after smelting in my reloading room but the lead pot was under my new vent hood system.

My doc doesn't know a lot about lead issues so wasn't a hole lot of help. I am wondering if the test was to close to my smelting session, or just that little bit caused high levels? Wondering if maybe its not the reloading or casting at all but something else in my environment but not sure what it could be.

[ilium]

A friend told me he had a level of 10, so he started wearing a respirator when casting and uses nitrile gloves when loading and his blood level is down to 4.

[uscra112]

I don't know much either, but I do remember from many years ago that I had elevated levels like yours from working in a gas station. This was before unleaded gasoline. I expect a great many gas jockeys were equally affected, but I didn't see them dropping down dead or palsied from it. Deal with your ventilation problems, and you'll probably be OK. The "safe" lead level has been set pretty low, and yours isn't excitingly high, from what I've read.

Check this site: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003360.htm

[longbow]

I have worked with lead most of my life both casting boolits and working for a large lead smelter. I have never had high lead levels.

Lead is inhaled or ingested not absorbed through the skin. If you eat and drink, smoke, bite nails or do anything that exposes you directly to the lead by ingestion or inhalation (lead oxide dust or lead fume if pot is too hot) while casting/handling lead you can easily get high lead levels. Wash hands when finished and avoid breathing dross dusts.

One source of lead many on this site have brought up is indoor shooting ranges. There can be enough vapourized lead to become an inhalation problem if there is not good ventilation.

The lead levels will drop in time if you limit exposure but again, if you are careful when casting and avoid mouth contact with dirty hands and avoid breathing dross dust then casting sessions should not be a problem.

If you are using an indoor range then that may be your problem lead source. If not then you are exposing yourself while casting and handling boolits and it is avoidable.

Not trying to sound preachy but the point I am trying to make is that many of the guys where I worked spend 12 hour shifts on the casting floor around several hundred tons of molten lead and in most cases they don't wear respirators unless there is visible smoke or fume and they don't get leaded so casual boolit casters should not be getting leaded if they are careful.

Not sure if that helps or not. If you want, I could get some info on blood lead levels and average time for blood lead to decrease. Teck Metals has lots of info regarding lead.

If I can help I will.

Longbow

[HollowPoint]

Even if your doctor doesn't have much experience with High Lead Levels I'm sure he must have some kind of medical reference books or online data to give the appropriate guidance as to what course of action for you to take.

These same data bases are available online for the general public as well; although it would be preferable to get the information from a Doctor. Maybe getting a new doctor is in order. I have a hard time with the concept of your present doctor being that ignorant.

I had my lead level checked out a couple of years ago when I was experiencing some symptom that I hadn't experienced before. It turned out to be something else altogether. The lead level in my blood was at the "normal" levels.

When I asked my doctor what she would have done if my lead level was to high she rattled off a few things that I can't really remember now; except for one. She mentioned that drinking alot of orange juice was used in cases of "heavy-metal" poisoning.

If you'll post your questions about high-lead-levels in your blood on one of the free online medical websites like WebMD and such you'll get the answers you're looking for but, again; it's better to get it from a competent MD.

HollowPoint

[zxcvbob]

Well the test came back 9.3 ug/dl. Normal is 0.0 to 4.9 ug/dl. Needles to say this surprised the blankedy blank out of me.
Normal is less than 10 for adults, and it's not considered high until you get above 20. (half those levels for kids)

Mine was 17.something a year and a half ago, which surprised me but the doc wasn't alarmed by it. I got tested again this year and it was down to 15, so it's still higher than I'd like but it's trending the right direction. I'm pretty sure my biggest exposure is shooting in a bullseye pistol league at an indoor range once a week.

[imashooter2]

Your lead levels are low normal. Get a new doctor.

[Muddydogs]

Your lead levels are low normal. Get a new doctor.

From what I read on here that is what I thought but the report I got back from the blood test center showed my level and the range I posted in the OP. No need for a new doc just some education. I'm sure he is looking but this day and age its smart to do some checking on your own as well.

[Blammer]

make sure you wash your hands after each handling of lead or stuff.

don't eat or smoke while reloading or casting or smelting.

that's all I got.

[geargnasher]

Sorry, Bud, but if my doc didn't have a clue about lead or other heavy-metal poisioning, I'd boot his **** back to Pre-Med school so fast it would make his ignorant head spin. It's even worse that he/she didn't find out for you right then, I mean, what are you paying them for, anyway? I wonder what else your doc doesn't know.

Gear

[303Guy]

Looking at the website linked in a post above it sounds like the most dangerous part of the lead blood test is the test itself! They're saying above 40 is cause for alarm. Can't say I disagree with wanting to reduce it if it's nearly 10. Apparently, lots of fresh veggies, lots of vitamin C and the usual precautions is all that's needed. It also appears that there are other more serious sources of lead absorption out there. From what I can gather we need to avoid breathing lead oxide or lead salt dust like the plague and breathing primer 'smoke'. Smelting dirty (i.e. oxidized or corroded lead scrap is a producer of absorbable lead vapour).

Google lead toxicity and related topics.

[quilbilly]

Like a lot of other things in science these days, the ability to measure far exceeds what is relevant biologically. This is especially true of mercury where there is no clear data on what level is dangerous. Personally, I wouldn't worry about your lead level too much unless it rises significantly when you test again in a year. In the meantime, do your pouring in front of an open door in the garage and wash your hands every time you handle lead even if it boolits are lubed. I see you are from Utah. Keep in mind, lead is naturally occuring in any soils that contain silver or are volcanic. If you have a garden and there are any silver deposits within 30 miles, your rutabagas probably have trace lead.

[Simonpie]

I saw a chart recently showing the average lead levels in the US population. It showed about 10 through the 70s then dropped like a rock to about 1.5 today. Basically Tetra Ethyl lead being gone from gas with a bit of help in plumbing and paint did the trick. So, the statement that about 5 is "normal" is fairly true, but the statement that "anything under 10 is no great shakes" is true too.

I think I'd try to control it, but not lose a lot of sleep over it.

[303Guy]

Oh, beer is good for keeping blood levels down! :drinks: :mrgreen:

Eat heaps of raw carrot. Seriously.

[chboats]

With all the hype about lead, the safe level keeps coming down, for kids the 0 to 5 may be correct but not for adults. I work with lead every day so I had my lead level tested, it was 6.3. My doc said 0 - 10 is normal your in great shape. (for the lead that is). I only use simple precautions, like washing my hands a lot and not eating when work with lead.

If you want to bring the level down eat lots of green veges.

Get a new Doc.

Carl

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Yep with taking a higher dosage of vitamin C.

also, one of the largest sources of inducing lead for us reloaders is
from tumbling fired brass with spent primers intact.
some of the dust coming from tumbling can have Lead styphnate from the primers.

Even though the levels you mention are not that serious to you,
it should also be stated that if young children are nearby that is not so good.
Jon

[John Boy]

Mine went from 12 to 10 to 9.6. When it was 12, got a call from the NJ Dept of Health. Above 10, it's required by the labs to report it to the State. OSHA's industrial level is 40 - go figure.

I take a calcium and iron table each day which supposedly reduces any lead in the blood.

[slim400]

if you're looking for quick reference for free I would try the nonemergency poison control center I am going to be like the other posters and I'm not sure what is considered higher or not that I would definitely get a $20 respirator if you look online at company called wholesale tool I don't even think they're $20 I think they're more like 8.99 also need to keep an eye on the temperature of your lead then only becomes hazardous vapors when above 800° I personally have run a pop for short. Time at 850° and had no problem and now give you some idea I cast about 60,000 bullets a month on a master caster or you pick up the when you smelt even if you clean your wheel weights are still covered in oil and grease and rubber byproducts last time I smelted it took me over three weeks to get the smell out of the building you know it's rough when the dog sits outside the door and won't come in or she also stands at the door and wines to go out hope this helped

Slim 400

[MtGun44]

Your doc is full of beans. they don't deal with this much and most are not up on
it at all.

Under 10 is the recommended level for CHILDREN. Children are dramatically more
sensitive to lead than adults.

Adults should stay under 40 to stay healthy. You are fine, don't sweat it. Get a new
Doc. I have been at 20-28 for 30 yrs and no problems, from shooting regularly at
an indoor range.

Forget the respirator - lead comes into your body via your MOUTH. Do not eat, drink or
smoke with lead contaminated hands. Wash your hands. Nothing else is required.

Anti-lead hysterics are scaring people unnecessarily. OSHA does NOTHING until
lead level exceeds 40.

Bill

[fredj338]

Single digits is fine. I have been casting, loading & shooting lead bullets for 35yrs. My lead levels are in single dig. Wash your hands, limit indoor range time to 4x a year & eat lots of fiber & things like grapefruit.

[olafhardt]

I ran a heavy metals research lab for years. I am very sceptical about about the accuracy of lab results. 9.7 on this kind of test could mean anything. Having it rerun might be a good idea. We worship numbers and processes that produce them. We seldom question them. Dont get me started on "chamber pressure".

[imashooter2]

From what I read on here that is what I thought but the report I got back from the blood test center showed my level and the range I posted in the OP. No need for a new doc just some education. I'm sure he is looking but this day and age its smart to do some checking on your own as well.

Doctors are not gods, they are technicians. Not everyone graduates at the top of the class and almost 50% of doctors are below average.

Your doctor didn't know the basic numbers and failed to research what he didn't know before discussing it with his patient. If that is the sort of "professional" you want guarding your health, have at it.

[Muddydogs]

Doctors are not gods, they are technicians. Not everyone graduates at the top of the class and almost 50% of doctors are below average.

Your doctor didn't know the basic numbers and failed to research what he didn't know before discussing it with his patient. If that is the sort of "professional" you want guarding your health, have at it.

No doctors are not Gods and can't know everything. The doc new the basic numbers, they are printed on the hospital lab test report, but they appear to not be realistic numbers. Not defending the doc persay because anyone that trusts there health to a person that sees you and a few thousand other people a couple times a year is in for trouble. With this get mine and its not my fault society I expect the doc to follow the safe line and not advocate higher lead levels are ok. Hell I could start eating the stuff and go back a year later cross eyed, buck toothed, walking sideways with lead levels through the roof and sue The doc cause he told me its ok.

I guess what is kinda being missed here also is my levels are up with a relatively short exposure time to reloading and even shorter time at casting. And no I don't eat or drink while doing these activitys, I wash my hands when done, have no reason to stick my fingers in my mouth, refrain from licking lead and don't suck on spent primers. I cast and smelt under 750 degrees also. I guess what I'm saying is I'm very surprised at the number for the time I have been doing this and the general per cations I have taken. I will retest in about 4 months when I have more blood work.

[midnight]

MtGun44 is right. Those normals you see on the lab results are for children. I retired from 40yrs in a hospital laboratory and ran my lead levels very often. I cast and shoot a lot and my levels stayed below 2. Don't believe those "studies" from the CDC. Just another back door effort at gun control.

Bob

[bobthenailer]

I shoot , more than normal usually 2 to 3 times a week & i also shoot at a well ventlated indoor range for a 22 lr pistol league for 8 months of the year . I also cast bullets indoors for the past 35 years and have made around 500,000 bullets and made a little over 20,000 in this past Febuary . my blood levels are always normal !
I know of only 3 people who had PB posining and they shoot alot at poorly ventlated indoor ranges. all were cured

[ku4hx]

My doc doesn't know a lot about lead issues so wasn't a hole lot of help.

How would you feel if right after an EKG he stated he didn't know much about heart problems? Time to find a new doc more suited to your needs.

[Muddydogs]

How would you feel if right after an EKG he stated he didn't know much about heart problems? Time to find a new doc more suited to your needs.

Ya know lets leave the doc issue alone. If it wasn't for my doc and him going outside the box I would be dead. I have no problem with him worrying about my lead levels where there at cause there is no since in them going any higher. For what I do they really should not be were there at in the first place. Just because the Doc is worried about 9.3 being high and telling me that he would like that to come down doesn't mean that he doesn't know what he is doing, should he wait until they are 20 or 40 before he gets concerned? You guys and your judgment without even knowing the guy is crazy. I am not being treated for lead its just they are higher then most.

Once again the point is I have not done a lot of activity's to increase my levels to where there at. I wonder if having smelted a few days before the test effected it. My employee is also going to get tested because for all we know it might be the Gov building were I work contribution to the problem.

[Muddydogs]

I shoot , more than normal usually 2 to 3 times a week & i also shoot at a well ventlated indoor range for a 22 lr pistol league for 8 months of the year . I also cast bullets indoors for the past 35 years and have made around 500,000 bullets and made a little over 20,000 in this past Febuary . my blood levels are always normal !
I know of only 3 people who had PB posining and they shoot alot at poorly ventlated indoor ranges. all were cured

This is what im getting at bobthenailer does way more then what I do, 20,000 bullets is a month with normal levels, what are your numbers if you don't mind me asking? I smelted once and casted twice and have a 9.3 level which is not really that high at all but should it even be where its at?

[Cadillo]

The last time I had mine checked, it came back at 12. My doctor said "No Problem. Find something else to worry about."

He's a shooter!

[zxcvbob]

This is what im getting at bobthenailer does way more then what I do, 20,000 bullets is a month with normal levels, what are your numbers if you don't mind me asking? I smelted once and casted twice and have a 9.3 level which is not really that high at all but should it even be where its at?

You don't have a baseline number, so you don't know if the smelting and casting had anything to do with your current level.

[chboats]

+1 to what zxcvbob said. With out a base line you don't know what is normal for you. It may have come down after you started casting.

[22lover]

I do not want to disseminate incorrect information, but my understanding is that the vaporization temperature of lead is somewhat higher than 3000 degrees F. That's when the vapors would come into play. Melting temp is well under 700F. I don't believe there's a way a common Joe could achieve the vaporization temp even by accident. We're talking acetylene torch temps or high-temp heat treating furnace temps.

That's not to say that there could be some reactions with other things that could put lead into solution in some sort of vapor - I'm just not knowledgeable enough on that. Obviously absorption through skin or internally at any temperature is bad news.

Anyway, just some info - don't take my word for anything!

[leadman]

My BLL had increased to over 12 and I had a metallic taste in my mouth and purple at the base of my fingernails. Some people are more sensitive to the effects of lead in the blood.

I bought some of the lead test kits that contain the vials you break and then swab a surface. If it changes color there is lead on it.
I made a piece of aluminum plate to attach to the front of my shirt, tested it, no lead. Had a large fan 5 feet behind me as normal, cast and made shot for about an hour. Retested the plate, it showed lead. Neither pot was over 800 degrees.

I made my "casting closet" that I posted about some time ago. I tested the surfaces of the new wood and had no lead indicated. Put the box fan on the other side of the pots pulling the fumes away from me and cast boolits and made shot again. No lead on the plate this time. All the wood on the wall the fan was in and the fan indicated lead. Again the lead pots were not over 800 degrees.

From my additional testing after disassembling my "casting closet" after I quit making shot for sale I have found it does not matter what the pot temperature is you will find lead on surfaces close to it. Where the lead fall depends on the air flow. I believe the fan behind the caster causes the fumes to swirl around the front of the person, much like a large rock in a stream.
I lowered my BLL by paying closer attention to what my hands were doing and washed my face and lips before drinking or eating. Lead can enter thru the mouth, nose, and around the eyes or open wounds. Certain types of lead oxides are absorbed thru the skin.
I also followed the Minnesota diet for children with high BLLs. It works.

So the posters here that say lead can't get out of the pot at normal casting temperatures may want to buy a test kit and check their casting area. These kits are available at home improvement stores and ewlsewhere. Cheap insurance.

[geargnasher]

Ya know lets leave the doc issue alone. If it wasn't for my doc and him going outside the box I would be dead. I have no problem with him worrying about my lead levels where there at cause there is no since in them going any higher. For what I do they really should not be were there at in the first place. Just because the Doc is worried about 9.3 being high and telling me that he would like that to come down doesn't mean that he doesn't know what he is doing, should he wait until they are 20 or 40 before he gets concerned? You guys and your judgment without even knowing the guy is crazy. I am not being treated for lead its just they are higher then most.

Once again the point is I have not done a lot of activity's to increase my levels to where there at. I wonder if having smelted a few days before the test effected it. My employee is also going to get tested because for all we know it might be the Gov building were I work contribution to the problem.

I'm sure your doc is a swell guy. But you have to look at it from the perspective you've given us on this thread: You paid a trained professional to order some tests, including an extra test for lead. You paid for the tests. You paid the professional to advise you on the test results, including the extra lead test, and it's a pretty basic expectation that he spend a little time preparing to advise you properly. You walk out with more questions than answers, and come to an internet discussion forum for the answers you payed for but didn't get. Yes, we stand in judgement. What did you expect? If you leave a doctor's appt. with medical questions, and come here because you think a bunch of internet strangers can advise you better than your doc can, perhaps you need to put that in perspective.

I'm not going to tell you what I think about your numbers, because I'm not qualfied to. This is not an "opinion" thing, it's your health. At least ask your doc to refer you to a specialist.

Gear

[imashooter2]

-snip-

Once again the point is I have not done a lot of activity's to increase my levels to where there at. I wonder if having smelted a few days before the test effected it. My employee is also going to get tested because for all we know it might be the Gov building were I work contribution to the problem.

OK, you're married to the doctor. So shall it be.

To address your point, you said this was a test to baseline. If that is the fact than you don't know that your lead blood levels have increased at all due to recent exposure. You only have a single data point which cannot define a trend. This single data point is well within safe and normal ranges. Stop worrying and in 4 months, see what you get on the next blood test.

[Lloyd Smale]

I was treated twice for it. Mine was as high at 70 and i had no symptoms at all. My doctor told me that he wouldnt even consider treatment unless it was over 30.

[ku4hx]

Getting a BLL check is like getting a fasting blood sugar test. You have to not eat for a period of time before blood is drawn so as to remove the effect of recent food intake. Usually that's four hours or so. As that four hours passes, blood concentrations of all sorts of things will go to their base levels.

If you're getting a blood lead assessment, I'd think it wise to not cast or smelt for a couple of weeks before the test. Maybe not even shoot during that period unless it's an outdoor range. You got to remove things that may bias the test results. I'm just guessing at the two weeks, I'm sure others here have a better idea on that.

But one thing's for sure, if you have lead in your blood it's getting there somehow and it may be totally unrelated to all casting activities. The only way to pin that down is a BLL that's a true baseline count and then a BLL immediately after a heavy smelting or casting session. A single point on a graph is a snapshot in time, and as time passes ... things change.

[22lover]

So the posters here that say lead can't get out of the pot at normal casting temperatures may want to buy a test kit and check their casting area. These kits are available at home improvement stores and ewlsewhere. Cheap insurance.

This is great info - I made some statements based upon my knowledge of vaporization of metals in general, but your experience is eye-opening. Thanks for your "in practice" statements that certainly should be heeded rather than my theoretical blab.

[ubetcha]

Oh, beer is good for keeping blood levels down! :drinks: :mrgreen:

Eat heaps of raw carrot. Seriously.

Beer has vitiman P in it.:kidding:

[geargnasher]

Leadman's right. I bought a 4-pack of lead-detecting pens from the paint dept. of an Ace Hardware and checked my exhaust fan and the wall behind my casting area. All tested VERY positive for lead. I rarely run my pots more than 700 degrees. I think the lead detected is actually the accumulation of faint amounts of airborne "dust" or lead oxide powder hitch-hiking out of the pot on the soot/smoke particles when I flux. A good backdraft is important so you don't breath the stuff coming off the pot, because it DOES contain at least some lead at some point. If you aren't huffing the flux vapor/smoke, you're probably just fine.

Gear

[yovinny]

I had lead poisioning in the late 80's, test results were in the 50's.
Take Vitamin D and Zinc, you'r level will be almost nonexistant in a few months.
BTW, 10 really isent that bad. The old minimum for reporting was something like 30, but it was lowered back in the early 90's.

Most people get it from primer dust or all that black stuff on you'r empty cases, NOT from solid lead.

[MT Gianni]

I was tested recently. I never cast with a mask or nitrile gloves and I am in an enclosed, large shop. I always smelt outside. My levels were less than 3. I adhere to the always wash whenever I handle lead including spent primers and when cleaning firearms.

[olafhardt]

Liquid lead, like other liquids, does not have to be at its boiling point to evaporate. Leave a glass of water sitting on a table and it evaporates. Solids evaporate but usually slowly. Dry ice and freezer burnt meat are examples. If you cast you will make lead vapors.

[jcwit]

If you cast you will make lead vapors.

True, but not enough to be of any consequence.

I've been watching an ingot of lead evaporate for 10 years now, actually not much has happened. From outward appearances it still looks the same.

[DLCTEX]

You may have inhaled lead from the media used to clean cartridge cases, assuming you clean your cartridge cases. Lead residue from primers is in a dust form and very easily inhaled or transferred.

[leftiye]

Maybe drink a little mercury like the ancient chinese used to? Balance out your heavy metals! If you can afford it a little gold maybe.

[MtGun44]

No matter how wonderful you doc is, he is wrong on this issue. Don't believe what
I say - spend some time researching the issue - prove your doc is right - if you can,
what you will find is - that he is wrong.

Do what you want. You can get a white hazmat suit and SCUBA gear, if it seems like
fun to you, but it isn't going to significantly change your health status.

Stay under 40 and you will be fine. Wash your hands after handling lead, assume that
the casting and reloading areas are contaminated with lead particles, so wash after you
go there. This is not particularly hard to do, no reason to freak out. As to 12 causing problems,
I suppose it is possible, but I'll bet there are a lot more hypochondriacs than there people
actually having problems at 12.

If you don't think it is safe - take up knitting, nobody is forcing anybody to be a caster.

Bill

[dbarnhart]

Right now you have ONE data point, and it's value is not what you expected. If it were me, I would not get excited until I had TWO data points. The results of the first test could well be way off.

[Muddydogs]

No matter how wonderful you doc is, he is wrong on this issue. Don't believe what
I say - spend some time researching the issue - prove your doc is right - if you can,
what you will find is - that he is wrong.

Do what you want. You can get a white hazmat suit and SCUBA gear, if it seems like
fun to you, but it isn't going to significantly change your health status.

Stay under 40 and you will be fine. Wash your hands after handling lead, assume that
the casting and reloading areas are contaminated with lead particles, so wash after you
go there. This is not particularly hard to do, no reason to freak out. As to 12 causing problems,
I suppose it is possible, but I'll bet there are a lot more hypochondriacs than there people
actually having problems at 12.

If you don't think it is safe - take up knitting, nobody is forcing anybody to be a caster.

Bill

Not sure what he is wrong about? I have researched it and see that 9 is low like stated here and no I am not going to break out the white suit. When I go back in a couple months I will see what info he has, let him know what I know and go from there. In 3 months I need another blood draw and I plan on requesting another lead test as well. The doc might be worried about a 9 as high but at least he gives a dam.

Look guys I am not defending the Doc but all I asked was about blood lead levels and what was the thought about my level with my lack of exposure. My Doc being concerned about my level while it might not be high it is to him with the info he has. Lets face it I am probably the only caster reloader he knows, hell I bet I'm the only guy he was had drop his pants exposing an XD. 40 and to his credit he didn't miss a beat or say a word. At least he is saying something about my level. Weather right or wrong he has to follow hospital proticals and rules to protect himself. Now what happens if he said a 9 is nothing to worry about, I check in to it and find that the great gov says that at a 9 I am over by 4 what evers and going to die. I then contact the hospital and complain or hell lets sue and get rich?

I found from this thread that I should be watching my tumbler dust probably more then anything.

[Windyvista]

For over 15 years I worked as the Environmental, Health and Safety Manager at a company prior to moving into my current position. One key issue is in the frequency of exposure. In industry, OSHA does not require a Lead exposure program to be in effect unless the employee is exposed to the action level (30 micrograms of lead) for 30 days out of the year. At an level of 30 micrograms/cubic meter of air, you can not see the lead in the air and this is what gives many people the wrong security. They don't think they can see it so they don't think it is there, but as many have indicated, it is and you will get deposits. Then as people get lead on their clothes and hands, they may also not see it but if they don't wash properly, they can easily ingest lead. OSHA states that if an employee were to work more than 30 days at 30 microgram/m3 exposure, then they have to be tested for blood lead levels every 6 months. If the level stays below 40 micrograms/decaliter of blood, then it just gets tested again in 6 months. If a person goes above 60, they need to be removed from lead exposure and can not go back to working with lead until the blood level drops below 40. So as you can see, OSHA would have no concerns of blood levels under 10, even year round. The big thing to remember though is that children are much more susceptible at way lower levels of lead exposure. So crawling around the floor of you workshop would not be recommended.

Another item that needs to be taken into account is personal hygiene differences. I can tell you with personal experience that hygiene counts. We had multiple individuals performing the same task but all but one had blood levels below 10 when tested. The one was over 20. We talked with the individual and he improved his work practices to avoid lead dust creation and on his next test, he joined the ranks of those below 10 and stayed there.

Wet clean your work area when done. Avoid dry brushing if at all possible. After working with lead, I would also recommend removing clothing and washing it rather than wearing it around children.

Remember air exposure is in terms of micrograms, not milligrams. To relate this to powder which we typically measure in grains, 1 microgram = 0.000015 grains so 30 micrograms would be 0.00045 grains in a cubic meter. As you can see, this levels are not huge. Generally speaking though, unless there is lead exposure, individuals will be in the low single digits on their blood lead levels. It usually takes lead exposure such as stained glass or other soldering with lead solder, shooting / reloading or industrial applications to get it above 10.

[threedflyer]

I am curious to hear what symptoms those of you had who suspected lead poisoning?
I have been working with lead quite a bit lately including handling it, casting, loading etc.

[Windyvista]

Threedflyer,

The biggest issue is that many of the effects of lead on the body go unnoticed. Here is a statement on lead effects from the CDC and as you can see the impacts of lead include increased blood pressure, neuological and reproductive effects. I don't know if you have any young children but they are much more susceptible to lead effects on their developing nervous system and their lead levels need to be 1/4 ( less than 10 mg/dl blood) that of an adult.

From the CDC webiste...
The effects of lead are the same whether it enters the body through breathing or swallowing. Lead can affect almost every organ and system in your body. The main target for lead toxicity is the nervous system, both in adults and children. Long-term exposure of adults can result in decreased performance in some tests that measure functions of the nervous system. It may also cause weakness in fingers, wrists, or ankles. Lead exposure also causes small increases in blood pressure, particularly in middle-aged and older people and can cause anemia. Exposure to high lead levels can severely damage the brain and kidneys in adults or children and ultimately cause death. In pregnant women, high levels of exposure to lead may cause miscarriage. Highlevel exposure in men can damage the organs responsible for sperm production.

[KaliforniaRebel]

When it comes to inahalation fears, the keyword is: Outdoors.

Melt outdoors, cast outdoors, and shoot outdoors. Just that easy.

[303Guy]

It turns out that lead is a lot more toxic than one might suspect. Not everyone is affected the same way but the effects can be serious and dramatic and it doesn't take that much lead to do nerological damage.


ScienceDaily (Dec. 7, 2009) — Young adults with higher blood lead levels appear more likely to have major depression and panic disorders, even if they have exposure to lead levels generally considered safe, according to a report in the December issue of Archives of General Psychiatry,

Low-level lead exposure may disrupt brain processes, such as those involving the neurotransmitters catecholamine and serotonin, that are associated with depression and panic disorders, the authors note. Exposure to lead in individuals predisposed to these conditions could trigger their development, make them more severe or reduce response to treatment.

"These findings suggest that lead neurotoxicity may contribute to adverse mental health outcomes, even at levels generally considered to pose low or no risk," they conclude

My blood lead is 0.9 µmol and the accepted 'normal' is 0.0 to 0.45 µmol - double the maximum! I'm taking action. I suspect it's the lead oxide dust that forms in my melting pot as well as lead fumes since I run my pot hot. Ventilation will be introduced!

[MtGun44]

No doubt your doc is trying to help you, but IMO scaring someone by telling them that
9 is "high lead levels" is not helpful and is factually incorrect if the point is whether there
are serious health risks. Certainly if you were not knowingly in contact with lead and
had a level of 9, it would be good to understand what is causing it so that it won't
inadvertantly go higher. In that sense, he is good to raise the question, no doubt.
How he framed the information is key, and from what I remember of your first post
it sounds like he overdid it a good bit. It is clear that he is trying to keep you safe.

It seems like lots of folks want to make this hobby out as some sort of a dangerous
thing, and base all their comments on guesses, stories they heard or whatever. Look
up the vapor pressure of lead at different temperatures. IIRC it is 10^-7 torr at 850F.

You guys do what you want, the fact is that the vapor pressure of lead at anything
remotely near the hottest you will make it with a casting pot is about one tenmillionth of
1 mm of mercury. Normal air pressure is 760 mm of mercury, so the vapor pressure of
lead is just barely measurable with very high precision instrumentation. I suspect that
the arsenic or antimony might be a bigger issue than airborne lead vapor. Vapor and
dust are not the same thing.

Lead DUST in the air and on your hands to your mouth is THE ISSUE unless you are shooting
on an indoor range. Normal casting with any kind of reasonable ventilation, and washing
after working with lead and not eating, drinking or smoking with contaminated hands will
keep you safe.

You can pretend that 0.000001 is the safe limit or what ever number you like, but the
facts are that if you stay below 40 you will be healthy - unless your tinfoil hat starts constricting
the blood flow.

This is all researchable, just don't believe the envirowhackos that are selling global warming
and solar and electric cars and we will all die if anyone shoots a deer with a lead boolit or
melts some wheelweights. They are liars with an agenda.

Not long ago all cars were putting out lead compounds in vapor and dust form from the tailpipes
all the time. Somehow we all survived.

Bill

[303Guy]

It wasn't my doctor who said anything. I simply got the results from the nurse and all that was said that 'normal was 0 to 0.45 and mine was 0.9. I looked up on the net and found the bits I quoted above. What is being said is that that risk of neurological problems is is eight times higher with young adults having elevated lead levels. The study in question didn't cover older folks. The point is that we do need to take blood lead seriously and take precautions. It's true that we were dosed with lead from exhaust pipes when young. My kids got it too! I have no idea how µmol converts to milligrams per decilitre so I have no way of comparing my levels with those being spoken of in the thread.

[Lively Boy]

I found this interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

[C.F.Plinker]

I have no idea how µmol converts to milligrams per decilitre so I have way of comparing my levels with those being spoken of in the thread.

I found this which may be helpfull for you.
To convert micromoles per liter of lead into micrograms per deciliter, multiply by 20.712.

With this formula your .9 micromoles per liter would be about 18.6 micrograms per deciliter.

[357maximum]

Do you know what a medical student that finishes last in his/her class is called?


Yep..you got it...DOCTOR




I have had mine tested several times( my wife is a nurse). She recieves the same mind numbing blather that doctors do and it brainwashes some of the medical professionals to the point of stupidity.


BTW...I am not a sterile caster, I do use a fan to move good air into my area though....I am also very very careful with the case tumbler media.

My lead level has never been higher than 3


YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT NOTHING. Relax, go make some boolits and stop eating the paint off the window sill. [smilie=b:

[303Guy]

Thanks C.F.Plinker.

Interesting link. Here's some of what they say;

In adults, symptoms can occur at levels above 40 μg/dL, but are more likely to occur only above 50–60 μg/dL.[14]
and

Signs of chronic exposure include loss of short-term memory or concentration, depression, nausea, abdominal pain, loss of coordination, and numbness and tingling in the extremities.[21]The scary thing is I have tingling in my right finger tips! I doubt it's caused by lead poisoning though. I have a 'pinched nerve' in my neck.

Elevated blood pressure is one of the symptoms too but my blood pressure is 110/70 which is what a teenager would expect to have and for me that was quite a while back - I'm 59. However, what scares me is the fact that I have been careless with lead dust. But now I'm wiser and I will be a whole lot more careful in future.

[303Guy]

To my surprise this person phones me and tells me my blood lead level is too high and it's a notifiable condition over 0.48 and mine was 0.9 (µmol/litre)! She gave me heaps of advice and information and questioned me on shooting - apparently there have been cases of shooters getting high lead. She's sending me the information. She wanted to know what symptoms I've been experiencing, what I've done to get it and all sorts. Fresh vege's and calcium are indicated to help bring it down but the real effective way is chelation which requires hospital stuff but mine isn't high enough to warrant that. I'm not at toxic levels, just high enough to have possible symptoms.

So, I'll be changing my practices somewhat. I have identified the mechanism so I now know how to avoid it.