Heavyweights in 45 acp

[DeanWinchester]

I got a new mold the other day. Well, its a LONG way from new, more like NIB or new to me. It's an RCBS 45-255-KT It throws a beautiful 255g Keith style boolit. I know it probably wont work, but I'm itchin' to try this in 45 acp. Anyone ever run a 255g boolit in 45? Where's a good place to start? I just want to load a handful to see if it'll feed. I have Unique, bullseye, titegroup, universal, #5, #7 & Nitro 100 [old & new] on hand.

I'm going to cast some today from soft lead. It isn't pure, but it's dead soft. Should work great at a nice slow speed. Between 750-850 I guess would be nice.

Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

[Harter66]

I loaded some 255 LEE RNFP 45 acp . I AM A CHICKEN MOST OF THE TIME AND ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION. I started at 4.0gr of Unique ,but they were for a 1917 Colt and were seated long . The final load was about 6.0 and seated out to the top lube groove. Probably too long for your 1911. This was safe in my gun w/o exsessive pressure signs.

Alliant shows 230gr j data at a max of 6.5 and 230 LRN at 5.8 for Unique for 45 ACP at 1.26 oal.

What I might do if I were doing it would be to start w/a maximum MANUAL feed length .
Remember you will loose case space in an already small case that is already w/standard loads running at or over 90% of case capacity.
Load 5rd at 3.5 gr Unique,5 at 3.7,5 at3.9 and so on,up to maybe 5.0.
STOP when they eject .
Work up from there by .1gr until desired ejection is met or the groups open/close to "standard".

QUALIFIER "desired ejection" means not landing hot brass on your arm,neck,collar,hat,etc.while reliably cycling the arm. I shoot groups for every work up load it saves time and powder . I've met ejection/feed many times at -.1gr of best group.

I have only worked up a couple of 1911 loads but many in 9mm and 40 the above is my method for standard loads and non standard loads. I worked up 158s in a 9mm as above it didn't work out well balisticly but the gun is happy and still running.

[littlejack]

DeanW:

The Speer #12 manual has load information for the Speer 260 grain JHP bullet in the 45 acp.
Be very careful on your seating depth of the heavy boolits. Pressure will rise quickly.
I have loaded and shot the Lee 255 rf boolit in my Taurus PT1911. It has done well with that
load. It is controllable, accurate, and plenty of horsepower. YMMV.

For your own information, I called Speer today and talked to one of the TECH'S there. I was wanting to get the length of there 260gr. hp
bullet.
(That bullet has been dropped from their line.)
I ask the TECH; if the load information was valid in the #12 manual for the 45acp cartridge and the 260 gr. hp bullet and he stated it WAS
valid load information.
Jack

[44MAG#1]

This has been hashed to death not to long ago.
Searching for the threads would be a better way to go.

[StrawHat]

Here you go,

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/search.php?searchid=4050144

[Kosh75287]

I tried to follow that link, but it took me nowhere. Gave me a message that said: "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

Anyway, using starting data for the 260 grain Speer JHP, I loaded up a number of 250 grain RNFPs and obtained nice results. With the price of all projectiles going up so much, I went back to more usual bullet weights in the .45 ACP. But if I needed to assemble a load for deep penetration in a .45 ACP, I would be comfortable with making more, anytime.

[littlejack]

I have read other members comments (on other threads) and this one, on the over pressure of the Lee 255 rf boolits compared to the Speer jacketed 260 grain hp. The main reason, was not knowing the length of the Speer 260 grain hp, as compared to the Lee 255 rf, that was going to be loaded for a heavier slug in the 45 acp pistol.
I received the length information (from another member) on the Speer jacketed 260 grain hp bullet. The old bullets were .683, and the new bulets were .677, or an average of .680.
My Lee 255 rf boolits are an average of .600.
Now, if one notes the Speer #12 load data for their 260 grain jacketed as being 1.200 COL, and my seated Lee 255 rf boolis are also seated to a COL of 1.200, the case capacity is approximately .080 MORE with the Lee boolit. This should let some folks rest easier, if proper load work-up is followed.
Just my .02.
Jack

[StrawHat]

I tried to follow that link, but it took me nowhere. Gave me a message that said: "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

Sorry about that. In the search function I typed, "45 ACP heavy boolits" and got a lot of threads from this forum. Some were not pertinent but many were. Lots of us have used that and similar boolits in the ACP. I use the Lyman 454424 and others in the ACP but I shoot tham in a S&W revolver so my loads can be a bit longer than what would feed in a selfloader. Good luck.

[DanM]

I played with heavies in .45acp a long time ago. It was a fun project, and worth trying, but never quite equaled the accuracy I was getting from 230s or 200s. Tried many powders, and the best by far was Blue Dot with the heavies. Lowest pressure signs and best accuracy at 750-760fps.

[44MAG#1]

Buffalo Bore has a 45 ACP load out that pushes a 255 at 925 fps. From most 5 inch 1911's it will beat that.
The 260 speer will function at 1.200 inch OAL and the 255 gr Lee when the Lee is seated to chamber correctly in my Springfield barrel seat much shorter than 1.200"
So the seating depth is closer to the seating depth of the 260 Speer
Remember seating depth is based on what you have to seat a bullet to in OAL to fit your barrel. Not just assuming you can seat to the same OAL as the Speer
You may be surprized.

[looseprojectile]

with the Lyman 452374.
Lymans 48th edition lists 7.3 grains as a max load of Unique.
902 fps and 1.272" oal and 16,500 cup.
I have been loading 5.4 grains of Unique and and doing fairly well as my son and I have been placing in the top three to five out of eighteen to twentyfour shooters. I think these are going less than seven hundred fps.
I am going to switch to the Lyman 454190 and step on the powder charge some and see where that goes.
I like the way the rnfp boolits feed and I do notice that the swcs tend to have a hitch when feeding but do function without any alibies. The swc boolits have a larger meplat and should work better at killing pins and deer sized game.
My son shoots a Tarus PT 1911 and I shoot a ParaOrd P14 and we are shooting against some really expensive guns and I believe the trigger jerker is the largest factor in shooting handguns.
I've never asked but, do you think those guys and gals that shoot those full race guns feel bad when they are outshot by The Walmart specials?


Life is good

[littlejack]

44, I have a box of the Lee 255 RF's loaded for my 45 acp that I keep on hand.
The COL is 1.200 and they function flawlessly in my Taurus PT 1911. I have no failures to
feed or fire, and plenty of nose clearance for the boolit in the magazine.
Remember, not all firearms are the same, and it may take some tweaking on the boolit
seating depth in someone elses firearm (yours and others) to get it to function properly.
EDIT:
I called Speer again today. The Speer 260 grain jacketed HP IS still mnufactured.
The Tech, (a different one from the beginning of the week) told me that the "old" bullet, (cup
and core) is no longer being made. He has OBSOLETE stamped across the bullet drawing.
The "new" bullet is a "bonded core". The jacket is bonded to the core by electrolysis.
The length the Tech gave me for the new bullet is .675.
Jack

[44MAG#1]

Well I know all that about tweaking. And about the "new" Speer bullet.
I have a Springfield barrel and !.200 oal with the 255 Lee RNFP won't come close to fitting.
I have some of the "new" Speer 260 gr bullets and simply due to the soft nose being battered through handling length will vary by 2. 3. 4 thousands sometime.
The lead nose of the "new" Speer bullet is a lot smaller in the amount of lead exposed than the "older" bullet and the jacket is longer.
Ive shot the "old" Speer bullet too.
I like the Magma Eng. 250 RNFP very well in the 45 ACP.

[35remington]

Not entirely off topic, but FWIW, do not consider 7.3 grains Unique with the 452374 as a load that is advisable. It gets a higher velocity than they show with considerably less Unique than that.

7.3 grains is likely past Plus P. Stay away. Most especially in autoloaders. This is a mistake Lyman has not yet corrected, and should.

The "bonded core" Speer bullets do not bond in the sense that a separate jacket is bonded to a separate core. Rather, the copper is electroplated on the lead core via the chemical process alluded to above. Kinda like the copper wash or plating on 22 long rifle rounds, only a little thicker.

[44MAG#1]

Most people that are familiar with Speer Bonded Jacketed bullets know the way they are bonded.
The plating process is controlled to control jacket thickness.

[littlejack]

I'm glad that someone knows "all that about tweaking"
I couldn't resist 44.
Reguards
Jack

[44MAG#1]

You very astute littlejack.
I took it as you may have though I was very lacking of knowlege on tweaking.

[looseprojectile]

Thanks for pointing that out.
I would have not loaded more than six grains of Unique behind the 255grain boolits.
A little common sense would tell me that the seven point three grain load would be up in the light fantastic realm. Six grains is near a compressed load.

DeanWinchester. Try 5.5 grains of Unique behind your swc boolit and adjust the length to fit the gun and the magazine. I have loaded those swcs for the 45 acp and they do indeed feed in my gun. I think the six grain load is where I want to be with the 255 grain rnfp.


Life is good

[littlejack]

I think we have learned some things on this thread.
Reguards to all
Jack

[RKJ]

I don't use Speer bullets so didn't know how they bond them and now I do, so I learned something from this thread. Maybe useless trivia but ... I have some Missouri Bullets 250 grain that I haven't used yet and was interested.

[Throwback]

I no longer shoot anything heavier than 230 in autos but the 255 gr bullets are often more accurate in the older revolvers, just don't overload them. In modern revolvers I have experimented with 265 - 300 grain WFN and LFN bullets and had good results. Accurate 9 worked well with the latter. Unique and Accurate 7 deliver great results with 255-265 gr loads. I have satisfied my curiosity and had fun with the experiments but I prefer the .45 Colt for hunting loads. (The RCBS 45-270 SAA is as heavy as I use anymore) I will say the versatility and forgiveness of the .45 ACP is quite amazing.

[Good Cheer]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/adjustable45-1.jpg
I'm setting the mold to minimum length (238grains), sizing .452 and loading these with four grains Unique and a mag primer. It's an accurate minimum power load with no problems. A pain to weigh each charge but you do with what you got.

[krag35]

I have loaded the Lyman 45 cal 250 gr "cowboy" bullet in acp cases for my Sig. I use Blue Dot powder and can really tell a difference in recoil and handeling. it is accurate though and I don't plan on running may through it.

[smokesahoy]

I know this is an old thread, but it is still relevant.

My FIL is going hunting after rabid bowling pins and I worked up this load for him:

250 grain SWC (made for 45 colt)
remington 2 1/2 primer
5 grains zip
1.225 oal

Its a beast, and loaded to 45acp +p specs.

He built the gun for this purpose though dunno how some off the rack or vintage 1911 would handle it.

I'm using the zip because I have a ton of it I want to use up and the bullet is real long so I dont want something that heavy sitting on the powder. Anyway the margin for error at this load is about +0.2-0.3 grains before overpressure so please please dont just copy it.

[monsterbronc]

New here, and only been casting boolits for a few months, started with 357's for the wife to plink, its been fun and I enjoy it. now Im on to bigger things, literally,

I Myself picked up the LEE 255 RNFP mold thinking "big, heavy, knockdown" and have discovered this may be a mistake. I surfed the web quite a bit and found a load that uses my favorite powder, and seemed to agree or be real similar to other loads, but it wont chamber, ....

5.3 gr Unique
large pistol primer
Lee 255 rnfp
OAL 1.195

Im Shooting a Ruger SR1911, beautiful gun, expensive to plink (thus cast boolits)
the problem is at an OAL of 1.195, the edge of the boolit before the first groove hits the rifling before the round fully seats in the chamber, thus action not fully closed.

Im sure if I tweak it a bit shorter, it will chamber, but truthfully, Im new to reloading and I know that there is already a limited space behind it and case pressure could get dangerous. I would be very sad if my 45 went BOOM!

I see a couple mentions in this thread for this Boolit, but not many specifics. anybody else have the same issue? what is the minimum OAL I can use before case PSI gets scary? Or should I just give in, buy the 230 gr mold, and save the 255 grainer for my future Superredhawk?

[Catshooter]

I can not comment on the Lee boolit, but I run the Lyman 452424 at 260 grains over 4.7 grains of Universal Clays. Since this boolit has a full diameter shoulder I have to seat it so no more than about .025 of the shoulder is above the case mouth.

I worked up slowly and carefully to this load; so should you.


Cat

[C. Latch]

New here, and only been casting boolits for a few months, started with 357's for the wife to plink, its been fun and I enjoy it. now Im on to bigger things, literally,

I Myself picked up the LEE 255 RNFP mold thinking "big, heavy, knockdown" and have discovered this may be a mistake. I surfed the web quite a bit and found a load that uses my favorite powder, and seemed to agree or be real similar to other loads, but it wont chamber, ....

5.3 gr Unique
large pistol primer
Lee 255 rnfp
OAL 1.195

Im Shooting a Ruger SR1911, beautiful gun, expensive to plink (thus cast boolits)
the problem is at an OAL of 1.195, the edge of the boolit before the first groove hits the rifling before the round fully seats in the chamber, thus action not fully closed.

Im sure if I tweak it a bit shorter, it will chamber, but truthfully, Im new to reloading and I know that there is already a limited space behind it and case pressure could get dangerous. I would be very sad if my 45 went BOOM!

I see a couple mentions in this thread for this Boolit, but not many specifics. anybody else have the same issue? what is the minimum OAL I can use before case PSI gets scary? Or should I just give in, buy the 230 gr mold, and save the 255 grainer for my future Superredhawk?

I tried the very same bullet (lee 452-255-rf) in a 1911 back during the summer, using more 700-x than I'll admit to in writing, and like you had to seat it very deep to fully chamber. I have the velocity wrote down somewhere; whatever it was I stopped short of what I wanted to accomplish because 700-x wasn't the right powder for it. Anyway, mine fed reliably even with the flat-nosed bullet seated very deeply, but, yeah, I'd rather something more profiled to mesh with a 1911. I saw a mold at Accurate Molds, and LBT will make a flat-nose for a 1911 in 230 to 250 grains, IIRC, but it's just not on the top of my to-do-list yet.

[LOBO]

http://americanhandgunner.com/web-blast-reloading-the-45-acp/

[DeanWinchester]

Finally got the motivation to try. I loaded a 250g rcbs boolit over 3.5g of nitro 100 seated as long as the gun would allow. It cycled very well and shot pretty darn good. I could hit a bowling pin at 25 yards and that's with a barrel less than 3 inches. Not too shabby. Best part, same boolit will run my 45
Colt just as good or better.