Where is a good place to search for Winchesters

[audiotronics]

Hi Guys

I am new to the forum and not yet familiar with making my own boolits, The reason I ended up here was because I want to become familiar with Cast because I recently inherited a Winchester 1886 33WCF. And want to learn how to make proper 33 WCF

I want to try and find an 1873 or 1876 Winchester , chambered so that I can get boolits that are still being manufactured

Now that I have one, I want a couple more models . I have found Gun Broker

thanks for the help and I am not soliciting the purchase just looking to find a deal like that post earlier that someone got an 1873 for around 800 bucks. I was wondering the best places to try and find reasonable prices for good collectibles

[405]

First about your 86 in 33 WCF. That is an excellent combination and a very fine cartridge that is mostly overlooked and is considered semi-obsolete. Brass is hard to find with correct headstamp. Currently, Quality Cartridge makes some 33 WCF brass but they are back ordered for at least another month according to Midway. It can also be formed from 45-70. But, I prefer the correct headstamp on my stuff. I've had good luck with the RCBS 200 FN gas checked bullet sized to .339-40 over a medium load of 4895. But, like the brass, the molds that work well in the 33 WCF (lever gun) are a little hard to come by.

As to the collecting of old Winchesters? Whew! Gunbroker and Gunauction are two online auction sources, Gunsamerica is an online classified ad type service but a little more risky. You can use google search and just put in "old winchesters for sale" or variations like that and end up with a whole bunch of online stores and sources. Then there are pawn shops, regular gun shops, estate sales, gun shows and word of mouth.

Sticker shock is normal and doing some background Winchester lever gun research is wise. Quite a few reference books out there on the subject along with some stuff online. An original Win 73 will be the easiest to find. An original Win 76 is another critter and the ones in good shape are somewhat rare and VERY expensive. Your $800 budget is likely way low for a decent 73. Think more like 1500- 2000 and up. Then for a decent 76 more like 4-5000 and up.

[audiotronics]

First about your 86 in 33 WCF. That is an excellent combination and a very fine cartridge that is mostly overlooked and is considered semi-obsolete. Brass is hard to find with correct headstamp. Currently, Quality Cartridge makes some 33 WCF brass but they are back ordered for at least another month according to Midway. It can also be formed from 45-70. But, I prefer the correct headstamp on my stuff. I've had good luck with the RCBS 200 FN gas checked bullet sized to .339-40 over a medium load of 4895. But, like the brass, the molds that work well in the 33 WCF (lever gun) are a little hard to come by.


Sticker shock is normal and doing some background Winchester lever gun research is wise. Quite a few reference books out there on the subject along with some stuff online. An original Win 73 will be the easiest to find. An original Win 76 is another critter and the ones in good shape are somewhat rare and VERY expensive. Your $800 budget is likely way low for a decent 73. Think more like 1500- 2000 and up. Then for a decent 76 more like 4-5000 and up.

thank you for the good info on the where I might find 33 WCF , I agree until I know what I am doing and get taught the right way Im going to be buying what I can find in 33 WCF that is made by a reputable source.

I can go more than 800 I just saw one of the first posts I read on the forum board here where one guy was lucky enough

I see they can get up into the 5 K area and up. I have got to do my homework and find them

thanks again for some 33 WCF info, I will post some pics soon of my new 1886

[Rrusse11]

audio,

Me, I'm after an original Marlin 1895 in 33WCF, or 40-65,,,,,,,,, Buddy's got an 1886TD in 33. Brass is ez formed, and dies are available. Proper headstamp? Welllll, I ain't that particular, no way you're going to mistake a 33 for a 45/70, or vice versa. Original Marlin TD's I think are a better design, and I've got a couple of those,
but they've risen sharply in price recently.

The Winchester cachet isn't quite what it was, but lots of collectors/dealers think there stuff is still worth a fortune. The Model 12 comes to mind in the shotgun department,,,, their price has dropped considerable last couple years.

I just bought a nib Win 92 Dlx TD in 38-40, miroku build. Sorry Win guys, the quality of workmanship and modern metallurgy makes this a better gun than the original.
But then I'm a shooter/user.

Be patient, buy books and do your homework! Oh, and reload and cast your own,
all of that's a real education too.

Cheers,
R*2

[audiotronics]

WInchester books are on the way, great another pricey hobby. Thought 1911's were expensive

[405]

WInchester books are on the way, great another pricey hobby. Thought 1911's were expensive

Oh ya, similar mindset but larger universe and likely more expensive :). If serious about any of these hobbies can never have enough references. Since you've started the library you may have some of these on the way but here's a short "starter" list I'd think about getting. Ougtha keep you busy for a night or two.

The Winchester Book by Madis
Shooting Leverguns of the Old West by Venturino
The Blue Book of Gun Values
Winchester Lever Action Repeating Firearms, mdls of 1866,73 & 76 by Pirkle

[bob208]

yes read the books study the pictures. it would be better if you know a winchester collector that could show you what to look for. i was lucky i had a good winchester mentor. be very carefull with the on line auctions. i have seen a lot of hacked and doctored winchesters go for more then what they are worth.

[audiotronics]

yes read the books study the pictures. it would be better if you know a winchester collector that could show you what to look for. i was lucky i had a good winchester mentor. be very carefull with the on line auctions. i have seen a lot of hacked and doctored winchesters go for more then what they are worth.

Thank you for the advice, I wish I could find someone to teach and show me, pass the knowledge down etc.....If anyone out there in Lower COnnecticut reads this, love to buy you a beer and chat about Winchesters

when it comes to the auctions , are the big auction houses reputable to auction what they describe or even then you see something omitted or not noticed etc...

are there some better auction houses to focus in on ?

Re: Books, I have the Blue book and I am about to buy the Madis book. Couple others on Amazon that picked up. I got the following

Gun Trader's Guide: A Complete, Fully-Illustrated Guide to Modern Firearms with Current Market Values (Thirty-Third Edition),

2012 Standard Catalog of Firearms: The Collector's Price & Reference Guide
Jerry Lee

Shooter's Bible: The World's Bestselling Firearms Reference (103rd Edition)

Standard Catalog of Winchester Firearms
Joseph Cornell

Blue Book of Gun Values
S. P. Fjestad

Any of the blue book references better than the others, I can return what you guys think is an overlap etc

Thanks again

[bob208]

auction houses are in it to make money. most will not out right lie but just omit a problem with the rifle. or try to go past the problem by telling you how rare it is.

right now your best bet is estate auctions. another are consignment auctions around here they have gun auctions. that way you are bidding againest dealers who want to trun the gun for a profit. you can out bid them and still get the rifle for less.

if you ever get to gettysburg pa. let me know i could show you some winchesters.

[405]

Re: Books, I have the Blue book and I am about to buy the Madis book. Couple others on Amazon that picked up. I got the following

Gun Trader's Guide: A Complete, Fully-Illustrated Guide to Modern Firearms with Current Market Values (Thirty-Third Edition),

2012 Standard Catalog of Firearms: The Collector's Price & Reference Guide
Jerry Lee

Shooter's Bible: The World's Bestselling Firearms Reference (103rd Edition)

Standard Catalog of Winchester Firearms
Joseph Cornell

Blue Book of Gun Values
S. P. Fjestad

Any of the blue book references better than the others, I can return what you guys think is an overlap etc

Thanks again

A couple of those I don't have. But, you can't have too many! There will be some overlap but that is not a bad thing as it allows you to get slightly different takes on the same subject. Within the price guide category the more the better for the same reason, but I think Fjestad is the standard. Many of the general gun books deal with many models including new models so may not have much specific on old guns. The deal with old Winchesters is that most EVERY dealer (well versed on old Winchesters or not) will have a Blue Book and that may allow you to see why they are pricing the way they do. If you deal with old Winchester specialists then you'll need the more specific references like Madis' or the Pirkle book. One I didn't mention earlier is Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms. It is excellent and very comprehensive, so think about getting the latest edition of it. It covers MANY old antique guns (and Winchesters) so there is always interesting stuff to research there.

If you plan on reloading and shooting any in your collection then Venturino's book on Leverguns of the Old West is outstanding (just the old pictures included thoughout the book are worth the price of admission.

[KirkD]

When driving through small towns off the beaten track, check out the local gun store. Also, put the word out that you are looking for an old Winchester '73 or '76. Other collectors can point you in the right direction. Most of my old Winchesters have been bought from other collectors that I know personally.

[Chill Wills]

Check our cast Boolits "For Sale" for 33 Winchester brass

[bigbear]

Hornady is making new loaded 33Win ammo, check Buffalo Arms for details.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Try gunshows in Idaho and Montana this is where you will find the biggest selection and the best prices.

A really large gunshow like Las Vegas or Pomona will problably have a good selection but the prices will be higher.

Randy

[Lonegun1894]

I was stationed in Yuma, AZ for a while til 2005, and there was a gunshop in town called Sprague's, I dont have their number anymore. They seemed to have old Colt SAAs and Winchesters very frequently. They were also very good about calling you if you gave them a specific item you were looking for and it walked in the door. Not always the cheapest, but good guys who would help you out and remember what you wanted/needed. They cost me quite a bit of money by remembering what I was looking for and my phone number back then. A lot of their stuff is brought South bu "snowbirds", and often taken North by them also, so they have stuff from all over show up. May be worth calling them.

[audiotronics]

When driving through small towns off the beaten track, check out the local gun store. Also, put the word out that you are looking for an old Winchester '73 or '76. Other collectors can point you in the right direction. Most of my old Winchesters have been bought from other collectors that I know personally.


Where is the best place to get the word out without violating any forum rules , am I allowed to ask if anyone is out there looking to wind down some pieces that they don't use or just looking for cash to buy Gold ? ha ha

Thanks Again

[audiotronics]

Hornady is making new loaded 33Win ammo, check Buffalo Arms for details.
Really that is great news!!!!! thanks for the info

[audiotronics]

I was stationed in Yuma, AZ for a while til 2005, and there was a gunshop in town called Sprague's, I dont have their number anymore. They seemed to have old Colt SAAs and Winchesters very frequently. They were also very good about calling you if you gave them a specific item you were looking for and it walked in the door. Not always the cheapest, but good guys who would help you out and remember what you wanted/needed. They cost me quite a bit of money by remembering what I was looking for and my phone number back then. A lot of their stuff is brought South bu "snowbirds", and often taken North by them also, so they have stuff from all over show up. May be worth calling them.

Going to look them up right now, thank you guys, gave them a call , spoke with Chad and he did not have any at the moment of course just sold 3 but I left my digits

[waksupi]

Where is the best place to get the word out without violating any forum rules , am I allowed to ask if anyone is out there looking to wind down some pieces that they don't use or just looking for cash to buy Gold ? ha ha

Thanks Again

There is a want to buy section in the selling forum you can post in.

[KirkD]

Where is the best place to get the word out without violating any forum rules , ... ?
You should start establishing a network of acquaintances who collect old Winchesters. One way of doing this is by attending a local gun show and meeting other collectors. It takes time.

[Marvin S]

Just a few places I look at off the top of my head. Winchester Way. Joe salter. Merz Antique arms. Collectors firearms. Homestead firearms. And all of the usual big Internet auction and sales like Gunbroker/Gunsamerica.

[TXGunNut]

Cabela's Gun Library seems to be buying some nice collections these days. Pricing is a bit spotty but they will negotiate.

[zac0419]

Winchstercollector.org (or something really close to that) is a good place to lurk and read. Those guys are serious about their Winnie's. Not the best place to ask questions, I've seen guys get treated poorly for asking newbie questions although It has good info to lurk through.

[audiotronics]

Cabela's Gun Library seems to be buying some nice collections these days. Pricing is a bit spotty but they will negotiate.

For sure , Cabelas wants prices like they were all blue still and just out of the box

were asking 16K no finish remained on metal wood was good, not excellent and they are at 12-13K now

I am going to be patient and let the right ones surface. Hopefully that gives me the time to really know what I am looking for and be able to somewhat know what to look for and give it a grade and price from there

Thanks for the input and let me know if you guys spot anything out there

[audiotronics]

You should start establishing a network of acquaintances who collect old Winchesters. One way of doing this is by attending a local gun show and meeting other collectors. It takes time.

There just are not enough gun shows rolling through my area , looks like Im really going to put some miles on the ol car

[John Boy]

I am new to the forum and not yet familiar with making my own boolits, The reason I ended up here was because I want to become familiar with Cast ... a Winchester 1886 33WCF.
Audiotronics - This is basic questions of your post: (1) how to cast lead bullets and (2) Which bullet mold(s) for your 33WCF. Correct?

Specifications
Bullet diameter .338 in (8.6 mm) ... the starting point to select your bullet mold
Neck diameter .365 in (9.3 mm)
Shoulder diameter 443 in (11,300 mm)
Base diameter .508 in (12.9 mm)
Rim diameter .610 in (15.5 mm)
Case length 2.11 in (54 mm)
Overall length 2.80 in (71 mm)
Rifling twist 1:12
Primer type large rifle
Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
200 gr (13 g) (factory load) 2,200 ft/s (670 m/s) 2,150 ft·lbf (2,920 J)
200 gr (13 g) 2,220 ft/s (680 m/s) 2,198 ft·lbf (2,980 J)
200 gr (13 g) (maximum) 2,420 ft/s (740 m/s) 2,608 ft·lbf (3,536 J)

OK:
(1) You can't learn how to cast by asking general basic questions and from the answers on this or any forum thread. Yes, there are pointers but cradle to grave How To ... NO! It's a Hands on Deal!
OK, here's what you have to do ...
* Read this article ... http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lasc.us%2FFryxell_Book_Conten ts.htm&ei=YIGdT4_jAcvuggeNp5yTDw&usg=AFQjCNEV4YJGiRDK4jNOgaHPBcdFamNMuA&sig2=4O-2M5yKMAU6ugDXlf_rgg
(2) Buy this book ... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/867465/lyman-cast-bullet-handbook-4th-edition-book
*** Excellent chapter on How To plus the various bullet molds - pick one or more


Next:
Buy the cases ... ? Recommend to search the Internet or here on Cast Boolits
Buy the loading press of your choice, plus a Lyman H&I Lube/sizer with proper H&I die or learn how to pan lube
Buy the loading dies ... http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1216/2/LEE-DIE-33-WCF

Then read this article ... http://www.chuckhawks.com/33_WCF.htm

And be sure NOT to charge the cases with the maximum powder charges!

Good Luck - the reading and hands on learning curves are completely up to you

[TXGunNut]

For sure , Cabelas wants prices like they were all blue still and just out of the box

were asking 16K no finish remained on metal wood was good, not excellent and they are at 12-13K now...



Agreed, but way too often somebody walks in and pays way too much for a rifle and reinforces their pricing strategy. Hard to believe today but I've seen it. Might have even done it....probably just that one time...then there was...Sometimes it seems I must carpe diem.
I've seen a few that were actually priced right but they weren't what I was looking for. I've been cherry-picking their used gun rack for years and have made some inquiries on the guns in the library so they know (finally) I'm a serious buyer. Only problem is each Gun Library generally has a few part-timers who don't have the knowledge or authority to haggle and it takes awhile to get to know the guys who can.