unique loads for the 480 Rug

[white eagle]

I have tried 13.0 gr and 10.0 gr on Unique in my Super Redhawk
The 13 I had to beat the empties out and the 10 gr load had stiff extraction as well
I am puzzled the loads are book loads [smilie=w:

[Lefty SRH]

Thats odd, what boolit?

[Lefty SRH]

Are your chambers rough?

[BABore]

For a 400 gr cast boolit with GC, Quick Load lists the following;

480 Ruger Pmax pressure: 47,862 psi

400 gr GC boolit with a seat depth of 0.525 inches (QL SAAMI OAL)
10.0 grs Unique: 36,754 psi
13.0 grs Unique: 64,273 psi

400 gr GC boolit with a seat depth of 0.435 inches (my design)
10.0 grs Unique: 28,966 psi
13.0 grs Unique: 48,913 psi

Hopefully you were using a much lighter boolit. Here's a Lee 476, 325 gr GC;

Lee 325 gr GC with a seat depth of 0.447
10.0 grs Unique: 25,892 psi
13.0 grs Unique: 44,460 psi

Even the light weight Lee boolit is nearing max with 13 grains.

The SRH can certainly handle being a bit above SAAMI pressure, but I wouldn't be pushing it with a fast powder like Unique. Your best served with a slower powder like WW296 or H110 if you want to run them hard. Unique doesn't measure all that well to be pushing on it. 8.5 to 10.0 grains is a nice midrange load.

You also have to watch the brass used. New Hornady brass is about dead soft. It will stick even moderate loads when new. Once work hardened a bit by 3-4 firings, it comes around to what SL brass is new.

[white eagle]

thanks Bruce and Lefty
I do not recall the boolit I was using
but I was in search of a easy to shoot light load
either I read the info wrong or I used the wrong boolit

[subsonic]

If you're "working up a load", you're doing it wrong:kidding::bigsmyl2:

:drinks:

[Lefty SRH]

The charts say Trail Boss is a light load. You may want to consider that.

[Lefty SRH]

Titegroup also looks to be a light load also.

[subsonic]

I have seen some bad juju with titegroup. I would not recommend it in large capacity cases...

The Unique will work, just needs to drop it back a bit I think. Hard to say without knowing what boolit.

And this kids, is exactly why you work UP a load. Strange things happen.

Now, I am also guilty as charged of picking a book load and running with it. But I learned long ago to only load a VERY FEW of anything before trying them. Watched a buddy load about 350 38spls with the decapping pin in the progressive just bumping the primer enough to knock out the firing pin dent. Didn't catch it either.

[Lefty SRH]

I have seen some bad juju with titegroup. I would not recommend it in large capacity cases...

The Unique will work, just needs to drop it back a bit I think. Hard to say without knowing what boolit.

And this kids, is exactly why you work UP a load. Strange things happen.

Now, I am also guilty as charged of picking a book load and running with it. But I learned long ago to only load a VERY FEW of anything before trying them. Watched a buddy load about 350 38spls with the decapping pin in the progressive just bumping the primer enough to knock out the firing pin dent. Didn't catch it either.

Wow, thats sucks....a lot of time spent for dud rounds.

[dmize]

I have used 10 grains of Unique with 400 gr. Lee boolits.
One thing I noticed,when your looking at the load manual,look at the PRESSURES.
I havent had any troubles with Titegroup,its sold for large capacity cases,BUT the powder charge may be low but the pressures are a pretty good ways up there. There are no "light" loads other than Trailboss.

[subsonic]

I have heard lots of good things about HS6 in the big cases for easy shooting loads. I have played with it very little in my .475 using a load Mellonhead gave me of 14gr behind a 400gr Keith style he designed and a CCI300 spark plug. Obviously the .480 has less capacity and something like 10gr and work up to maybe 12gr sounds reasonable.

I plan on playing with Longshot someday and want to try some 800x, but 800x meters like cornflakes, so even if it is the holy grail, I probably will use something else.

[Lefty SRH]

I'd like to find a load with HS-6 and a 400-420gr boolit. I've seen HS-6 perform really well in my .44spl, .44mag snubby Alaskan, and my .45 colt. But 14.0gr in the .480 sounds pretty low considering I throw 13.0 in the .45 colt.
It would be great if Hodgdon would list some data for the .480 with some HS-6.

[mellonhead]

I use 14 grains of HS6 under a 400 grain SWC in my Linebaugh. I get right at 1150 fps. I have been using it in my 500 WE with excellent results also. 99% of my loading is done with HS6.

Toby

[Lefty SRH]

I use 14 grains of HS6 under a 400 grain SWC in my Linebaugh. I get right at 1150 fps. I have been using it in my 500 WE with excellent results also. 99% of my loading is done with HS6.

Toby

As in .475 Linebaugh?

[Lefty SRH]

For a 400 gr cast boolit with GC, Quick Load lists the following;

480 Ruger Pmax pressure: 47,862 psi

400 gr GC boolit with a seat depth of 0.525 inches (QL SAAMI OAL)
10.0 grs Unique: 36,754 psi
13.0 grs Unique: 64,273 psi

400 gr GC boolit with a seat depth of 0.435 inches (my design)
10.0 grs Unique: 28,966 psi
13.0 grs Unique: 48,913 psi

Hopefully you were using a much lighter boolit. Here's a Lee 476, 325 gr GC;

Lee 325 gr GC with a seat depth of 0.447
10.0 grs Unique: 25,892 psi
13.0 grs Unique: 44,460 psi

Even the light weight Lee boolit is nearing max with 13 grains.

The SRH can certainly handle being a bit above SAAMI pressure, but I wouldn't be pushing it with a fast powder like Unique. Your best served with a slower powder like WW296 or H110 if you want to run them hard. Unique doesn't measure all that well to be pushing on it. 8.5 to 10.0 grains is a nice midrange load.

You also have to watch the brass used. New Hornady brass is about dead soft. It will stick even moderate loads when new. Once work hardened a bit by 3-4 firings, it comes around to what SL brass is new.

BA Bore, can you run HS-6 and a 420gr LFN PB boolit thru your Quick-Loads for .480 Ruger and see what it says please.

[mellonhead]

Yeah, 475 Linebaugh.

Toby

[Whistler]

My SRH had very rough chambers and made even the lightest load have "sticky" extraction. I polished the chambers with some scothbrite that I wound around an old bronze brush that I chucked in my electric screwdriver. After that even the loads that were well above max had the cases falling out of the cylinder by their own weight and the chambers were shiny clean even after a 100 rounds shot.

[BABore]

BA Bore, can you run HS-6 and a 420gr LFN PB boolit thru your Quick-Loads for .480 Ruger and see what it says please.

Shoot me the specs on the boolit. OAL and seating depth.

[Lefty SRH]

Shoot me the specs on the boolit. OAL and seating depth.

OAL length of the loaded cartridge is 1.750" OAL of the boolit is .950" Nose to crimp is .480" So the amount of boolit in the case is .470"
Thank you

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive allways ran 8 grains of unique with a 400 in 480 brass and had no problems at those levels. If you want more power then that you should probably consider a slower powder like hs6 or 2400

[white eagle]

Thanks [smilie=w:

[BABore]

OAL length of the loaded cartridge is 1.750" OAL of the boolit is .950" Nose to crimp is .480" So the amount of boolit in the case is .470"
Thank you

Based on your data;

0.478 dia, 420 gr LFN, OAL: 0.950, Seating depth: 0.470, COAL: 1.750
SAAMI Pmax pressure of 47,862 psi
Assuming a 9.5" SRH bbl

***Remember, this is a software program and may not correlate with real world results. Work up your loads!

QL shows the following for HS-6;

13.8 grs HS-6
Pmax: 40,043 psi @ 0.26" boolit travel
Velocity: 1,125 fps
Fill: 66%
Propellent burn: 100%
Muzzle pressure: 2,355 psi

14.0 grs HS-6
Pmax: 41,371 psi

14.5 grs HS-6
Pmax: 44,833 psi

15.0 grs HS-6
Pmax: 48,509 psi

You can see that it doesn't take much of an additional charge weight to put you in a high pressure zone. I don't know about the temperature sensitivity of HS-6, but if it were sensitive at all, running a warm load at cool temps could take it well over max come summer time. Hope it helps

[warboar_21]

Ive allways ran 8 grains of unique with a 400 in 480 brass and had no problems at those levels. If you want more power then that you should probably consider a slower powder like hs6 or 2400

This is the same load I have used for a 400gr Lee bullet. Very mild load and around 850ish fps if I remember correctly.

[Lefty SRH]

Based on your data;

0.478 dia, 420 gr LFN, OAL: 0.950, Seating depth: 0.470, COAL: 1.750
SAAMI Pmax pressure of 47,862 psi
Assuming a 9.5" SRH bbl

***Remember, this is a software program and may not correlate with real world results. Work up your loads!

QL shows the following for HS-6;

13.8 grs HS-6
Pmax: 40,043 psi @ 0.26" boolit travel
Velocity: 1,125 fps
Fill: 66%
Propellent burn: 100%
Muzzle pressure: 2,355 psi

14.0 grs HS-6
Pmax: 41,371 psi

14.5 grs HS-6
Pmax: 44,833 psi

15.0 grs HS-6
Pmax: 48,509 psi

You can see that it doesn't take much of an additional charge weight to put you in a high pressure zone. I don't know about the temperature sensitivity of HS-6, but if it were sensitive at all, running a warm load at cool temps could take it well over max come summer time. Hope it helps


Thank you for running the numbers. I have a feeling its not the greatest of pairs, too heavy of a boolit with HS-6. 13.8gr sounds so low, like I said before I shoot 12.5gr and 13.0gr regularly out of my .45 colt with a 270gr SAA boolit with no problems. I'm also sure this isn't apple to apples kind of comparison.
I think I'll just stick to H110 for my .480.

[Lefty SRH]

What is meant by the .026" of boolit travel with the 13.8gr charge?

[BABore]

It's 0.26 inches. That means the base of the boolit has only traveled that distance before the pressure hits the charge weight's Pmax pressure. It's still in the case at this point. A faster powder would have an even shorter travel distance. Very useful for tayloring an alloy and dealing with boolit fit issues. Especially in a rifle.

Say you have issues with bbl thread choke in your Ruger and are too bullheaded to fix the problem. A hard boolit will likely lead every time. A softer alloy will also lead unless you can get the pressure to peak or at least have enough left to bump up the boolit after it has went past the constriction. It gets sized down after it passes the choke point, and get bumped up again if the pressure curve has not subsided by the time it reaches ths point. A function of boolit hardness and powder burn rate. A fast powder like BE or WW 231 may lead with this choke condition and a soft alloy whereas a silghtly slower powder will not by shifting the pressure curve down the bbl.

A second issue is the desire for a load of a specific velocity. Whether it's plinking, midrange, or top end load, powder choice is important. All powders burn best at a very specific pressure. Shotgun powders have more of a range to them. Unique for example is a very common go-to powder. But, Unique burns best and gives the best accuracy at a certain pressure. I have proved to many people by shooting 1/4 or 1/2 grain, incremental loads, at the same large target with multiple bullseyes. Starting from book min, and going to book max, you will see a cyclic pattern to the groups. At low end, vertical stringing will be evident. As charge weight is increased, the VS will tighten, then string horizontally. This will occur over 2-3 cycles. There will be a final tightening to a round group where the pressure is just right for conditions, then the groups will spread out as charge is increased further. If the group size is acceptable where pressure conditions are correct, then you are done. If not, then pick another powder, cause most likely that's the best it will be. Yes, you can redo the test with another primer, lube, or alloy, but that's another topic. If Unique shoots good where it burns best, but the load is faster than you wanted, loading it down only results in less than best accuracy. Pick a slightly faster powder next time around.

Boolit weight for caliber is also at issue. I had a nice 220 gr HP for my 44 mag which just loves a soft alloy for all loads. I tried my best to make it shoot fast with a healthy charge of WW 296. Accuracy sucked! I tried 2400 next and it was a little better. So, I tried a top end load of Unique and it all came together. I didn't have enough boolit resistance to make those powders burn at their desired pressure requirements. Sure they were fast loads, but that does you little good if you can only get a 2 inch group at 50 yards. The final Unique load will do about 6 inches at 385 yards. Witnessed by several board members here and shot by more than one person. Never have chronographed it cause it really don't matter to me.

[Frank]

The max pressure is below the brass sticking point. It may be way lower than the charges you are contemplating. What pressure does your brass stick at? Have you ever stuck brass? With what? What bullet & powder?

[44MAG#1]

Doesn't anyone buy loading books any more?
I have the latest Speer and while it doesn't list Unique in a 480 Ruger with a 400 gr jacketed it does with the 475 Linebaugh. It is 13 grs. MAX
Immediately I would say uh oh.
Now with a Super Redhawk with a cast that is seated out to close to Factory spec 475 Linebaugh I might creep up on it but I would be moving at a snails pace while i worked up.
I may be crazy but dumb I'm not.

[subsonic]

It's 0.26 inches. That means the base of the boolit has only traveled that distance before the pressure hits the charge weight's Pmax pressure. It's still in the case at this point. A faster powder would have an even shorter travel distance. Very useful for tayloring an alloy and dealing with boolit fit issues. Especially in a rifle.

Say you have issues with bbl thread choke in your Ruger and are too bullheaded to fix the problem. A hard boolit will likely lead every time. A softer alloy will also lead unless you can get the pressure to peak or at least have enough left to bump up the boolit after it has went past the constriction. It gets sized down after it passes the choke point, and get bumped up again if the pressure curve has not subsided by the time it reaches ths point. A function of boolit hardness and powder burn rate. A fast powder like BE or WW 231 may lead with this choke condition and a soft alloy whereas a silghtly slower powder will not by shifting the pressure curve down the bbl.

A second issue is the desire for a load of a specific velocity. Whether it's plinking, midrange, or top end load, powder choice is important. All powders burn best at a very specific pressure. Shotgun powders have more of a range to them. Unique for example is a very common go-to powder. But, Unique burns best and gives the best accuracy at a certain pressure. I have proved to many people by shooting 1/4 or 1/2 grain, incremental loads, at the same large target with multiple bullseyes. Starting from book min, and going to book max, you will see a cyclic pattern to the groups. At low end, vertical stringing will be evident. As charge weight is increased, the VS will tighten, then string horizontally. This will occur over 2-3 cycles. There will be a final tightening to a round group where the pressure is just right for conditions, then the groups will spread out as charge is increased further. If the group size is acceptable where pressure conditions are correct, then you are done. If not, then pick another powder, cause most likely that's the best it will be. Yes, you can redo the test with another primer, lube, or alloy, but that's another topic. If Unique shoots good where it burns best, but the load is faster than you wanted, loading it down only results in less than best accuracy. Pick a slightly faster powder next time around.

Boolit weight for caliber is also at issue. I had a nice 220 gr HP for my 44 mag which just loves a soft alloy for all loads. I tried my best to make it shoot fast with a healthy charge of WW 296. Accuracy sucked! I tried 2400 next and it was a little better. So, I tried a top end load of Unique and it all came together. I didn't have enough boolit resistance to make those powders burn at their desired pressure requirements. Sure they were fast loads, but that does you little good if you can only get a 2 inch group at 50 yards. The final Unique load will do about 6 inches at 385 yards. Witnessed by several board members here and shot by more than one person. Never have chronographed it cause it really don't matter to me.

Very interesting. I have noticed some of the same things you are mentioning and wondered if giving a medium hard boolit the boot with a slower powder once it got past a constriction would bump it back up. Which might explain why some loads work despite a frame choke.

[Frank]

Why don't you just shoot out the constriction. Why do you want the bullet to deform to correct the deformity! [smilie=p:

[subsonic]

Why don't you just shoot out the constriction. Why do you want the bullet to deform to correct the deformity! [smilie=p:

Ideally, all guns would be perfect. Ideally, all guns would firelap easily.

This world ain't ideal.

My 686 digested 120+ LBT compound lap loads and is still constricted. It shoots very accurately - but always did. I don't want to keep lapping it until there are no lands left.

My Accu-Sport .45 Ruger Bisley ate over 100rds of 280 grit and still has a constriction. I think it shoots worse now than it did before the lapping.

At this point, I am not a strong proponent of lapping.

I bet both of your BFRs have thread choke....:mrgreen: Push a soft slug through them and feel where the barrel is screwed into the frame.

[Frank]

subsonic:

I bet both of your BFRs have thread choke....:mrgreen: Push a soft slug through them and feel where the barrel is screwed into the frame.
I did order bore slugs from Veral and the lapping kit, but I haven't gotten around to doing it. :violin:

[Lloyd Smale]

ive killed a couple hogs with that load and it did real well on them.
This is the same load I have used for a 400gr Lee bullet. Very mild load and around 850ish fps if I remember correctly.

[white eagle]

nice load I shot it yesterday [smilie=w:

[BABore]

Ideally, all guns would be perfect. Ideally, all guns would firelap easily.

This world ain't ideal.

My 686 digested 120+ LBT compound lap loads and is still constricted. It shoots very accurately - but always did. I don't want to keep lapping it until there are no lands left.

My Accu-Sport .45 Ruger Bisley ate over 100rds of 280 grit and still has a constriction. I think it shoots worse now than it did before the lapping.

At this point, I am not a strong proponent of lapping.

I bet both of your BFRs have thread choke....:mrgreen: Push a soft slug through them and feel where the barrel is screwed into the frame.

No offense, but you have to be doing something wrong in your FL technique. I've done 10-12 guns with some that have had as much as 0.0015" of thread constriction. I've also coached a few friends on the how-to's. None of us have had to go past 35-40 rounds of lapping rounds. Even several Ruger stainless guns.

- Is your alloy a verified 10-13 bhn at the time it's fired?

- Are you using "Clover" brand, 280-320 grit lapping compound?

- Does it take you 1-2 minutes to embbed a boolit with compound?

- Are the coated boolits almost black with compound that can't be scraped off?

- Do you fill the grooves with compound?

- Is your velocity kept below 500 fps?

- Do you clean the gun completely after every 5-6 rounds?

- After the final cleaning, do you give the bore 100 strokes with a tightly fitted, cotton wrapped, bore brush coated with compound?

[subsonic]

- Is your alloy a verified 10-13 bhn at the time it's fired? yes 11

- Are you using "Clover" brand, 280-320 grit lapping compound? yes

- Does it take you 1-2 minutes to embbed a boolit with compound? No

- Are the coated boolits almost black with compound that can't be scraped off? sort-of

- Do you fill the grooves with compound? yes

- Is your velocity kept below 500 fps? I'm pretty sure but didn't chrono. I had some stick, so I know it's low

- Do you clean the gun completely after every 5-6 rounds? yes

- After the final cleaning, do you give the bore 100 strokes with a tightly fitted, cotton wrapped, bore brush coated with compound? Never finished, but yes, did this anyway.

No offense taken. I will try to take more time embedding more compound and see what happens. I actually asked if I was doing anything wrong when I did it and nobody seemed to think my technique was flawed. It didn't seem right to me either.

Can you elaborate on how to apply the compound and get it heavily onto the boolits without squashing them undersize? That was what I ran into when I pushed harder or rolled longer.

[BABore]

I put 1 or 2 boolits on the lower plate with a good dab of compound, then place the upper plate and start rolling side to side. I only use light pressure with my finger tips. After a minute of steady rolling, I flip the boolits 180 degrees, wipe the compound from both top and bottom plates, and re-gob it next to the boolits. Then it's another minute or so. Never really timed mysef, but it must take 2-3 minutes for a set. Then I wipe the plate with my finger and apply it to the grooves. If there's not enough, I go to the can. I apply new compound for each new set.

One other thing, are you using unsized cases for this?

If you do a thorough search, I did a complete write-up on this a few years back.

[white eagle]

boy this thread sure went south

[44MAG#1]

Well???????????????

[Frank]

white eagle:

have tried 13.0 gr and 10.0 gr on Unique in my Super Redhawk
The 13 I had to beat the empties out and the 10 gr load had stiff extraction as well
I am puzzled the loads are book loads.
What book? :coffeecom

[white eagle]

Alliant web page
they listed a 325 Speer gold dot
and I used an Accurate 350 cast [smilie=s:

[44MAG#1]

I've heard there is nothing like actual experience for the learning process.
Now one knows the reason for "working up" loads.
Generally I only up a fast powder load maybe .2 or .3 gr at a time and I shoot several rounds each level. Why? Actual experience in the school of hard knocks.
Guess who it is taught by?