Critique My New Setup Idea

[Danderdude]

Howdy everyone.

I've been doing a lot of casting with Lee 6-cav's while I work through a pile of lead I've collected. I'm happy with my 220v Lee Pro 4 20lb pot thus far, but those 6 cav molds empty it a little too quickly. While making some .45's I tried adding the sprues back to melt, and topping off the pot with cold ingots constantly. This has yielded MASSIVE swings in temperature that I'm not comfortable with.

I've thought about getting another identical (or 110v) pot and setting them up side by side, but then it hit me: mount the old one over a new one on a bracket, tie the handles together with an old hacksaw blade, drill a hole in the base of the top pot, and run a piece of pipe from the top pot's spout to about halfway down into the bottom pot. As I cast, an equal amount of lead is fed into the bottom from the top. The falling lead never contacts the pipe while preventing splattering. The temperature should be much easier to micromanage in the bottom casting pot, and all the last-minute fluxing takes place in the dedicated premelter/alloying pot. A thermometer would be inserted into both as well.

Play Devil's Advocate for me and tell me what's wrong with this idea. I'm building a dedicated casting bench soon, so any and all input for that is welcome as well.

Also, say that I wanted to mount the thermometers into the side of the pot rather than sticking out of the top. What's the best way to seal the holes afterwards? Will the heating elements give me false readings? Worth the time and trouble?

[Ickisrulz]

If you have to add lead to your second feeder pot won't it cool the mix down? You'd also have to keep adjusting the temperature of two pots to maintain consistancy.

I think you'd be better off with two stand alone pots. When one gets empty or half full you can fill it up and use the second one. That seems like the simple solution to a simple problem.

[Danderdude]

If you have to add lead to your second feeder pot won't it cool the mix down?

Cold lead never gets added to the bottom pot. All sprues and ingots go into the top pot. The handles would be tied together so that the top is constantly feeding the exact amount of lead back into the bottom.


You'd also have to keep adjusting the temperature of two pots to maintain consistancy.

Without a PID, that's a given with Lee pots. :rolleyes:

Because the temperature difference between the top and bottom pots is only around 80 degrees, max, and at most you're looking at 12oz of lead mixing per minute (200gr x 6 cav x 4 times per minute), the bottom pot should remain far easier to maintain.

Even if there was a 100 degree difference, with top pot being way too hot,
12oz 800F lead added to (18lb x 16) 288oz 700F lead per minute = mixing ratio of 1 : 24 = bottom pot heating up 4 degrees per minute.
But every two minutes, a cold pound and a half ingot gets added to the top pot and cools it down.

I think it will all even itself out.

[Chicken Thief]

Let the first/bottom one live a life of it's own. When ½ full or les then fill up from the second/top one and let the maybe 20-30deg temp difference be forgotten.

Constant refilling is a PITA you dont need.

Fill the "top" one every time you have refilled the "bottom" one and let the temp come up and settle before refilling the botton one again.

[Mike W1]

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u310/Mike4245/HPIM1074.jpg

Mine are 10 lb pots and usually reill after it's about half empty. The "break" is usually welcome and doesn't take that long though I've thought about opening up the spout on the top pot.

[Mk42gunner]

Creative thinking.

The main problem I see is if you mount the top pot directly over the lower one, you won't have room to put a screwdriver on the vavle rod when it starts dripping.

I use angle iron for my ingot molds and made them long enough to rest across the top of the pot to preheat. It keeps the wild temp swings down.

Robert

[Mike W1]

Creative thinking.

The main problem I see is if you mount the top pot directly over the lower one, you won't have room to put a screwdriver on the vavle rod when it starts dripping.

I use angle iron for my ingot molds and made them long enough to rest across the top of the pot to preheat. It keeps the wild temp swings down.

Robert

It's not visible in the photo but the bottom pot slides in and out. And there's handles on the valve rods. Preheating is done on the little aluminum shelves that I added to the pots which also hold the moulds for their preheat. Normally the first bullets cast are good ones.

[D Crockett]

what I see wrong with your idea is the pipe from the top to the bottom one haveing lead build up inside and freezing up on you and stoping up your pipe I would recomend you getting a 40 lb pot from Magma and use your lee pot as a second pot say for soft lead work with a 40 lb pot you can add a 5 lb ingot and keep right on going with out having a freez up just my 2 cents worth D Crockett

[Danderdude]

Well yesterday I built the shelf for the top pot out of 2x4 cutoffs and a piece of MD fiberboard. I cut a hole in the bottom of the stand and drilled through the fiberboard, and then threaded two short pieces of old 1/2" galvanized water pipe into the wood.

Then I messed up.

I plugged the pot in to check if the pipes were lines up, and started adjusting them a little. I'd been handling the cold pot all day and without thinking, I grabbed it with the pads of my thumbs and index fingers on both hands right where the heating element is. Barehanded.

Very minor first degree burns on the other digits, but a good old second degree on the pad of my left thumb. I unplugged the pot and sprinted to the house, grabbed some ice, and kept my hands in and out of cold water for two hours while I made supper. Took an hour for the aspirin and Solarcaine to kick in, and then the only way to staunch the pain my left thumb as to keep it elevated. This morning, the pads of my other fingers are kinda dry and leathery with reduced sensation, but there's a beautiful white blister taking over my left thumb. Surprisingly, no pain this morning.

Let this be a lesson, guys. A smart and sober person can mess up even when there's no molten lead around. Safety first and foremost. I feel like Will Smith when they burned his fingerprints off in Men In Black.

[rbertalotto]

I have two Lee 20 pots. I'm building a welded stand out of Angle Iron to fill one pot from the other.

But I like the idea of the two pots tied together. In this way the weight of the lead that is flowing into the mold is always constant. And this will lead to more consistent weights of the big 535g bullets I shoot........

So with a PID, double pots, consistent lead "head", temperature controlled molds and the proper rhythm, we should be making PERFECT bullets! Easy!

[a.squibload]

Looks like you can still do the keyboard, get well soon!
Don't forget aloe vera, should be able to get some down there.
We keep some in the fridge.
There are a couple threads here on burn maintenance.

Double pot is great but I ladle-pour and appreciate the break
while new lead is melting.

[Danderdude]

Looks like you can still do the keyboard, get well soon!

Double pot is great but I ladle-pour and appreciate the break
while new lead is melting.

Ah, my spelling and grammar were atrocious last night. That's what happens when you're reduced to one finger and your brain is working faster than your hands.

Once I get my mold up to temp, I don't dare let it cool down again. Getting those Lee 6-cavs hot can be a pain.

I tested everything out today, got the pipes aligned and found two major issues I feel like a moron for not thinking about:

1. I won't be able to flux the bottom pot with a slab of wood hanging over it, and
2. The tin-laden droplets will oxidize on the trip from the top to the bottom.

Went the whole day without pain and resisted the constant urge to pop that blister. Even cast up a few hundred .357 Mag bullets from a new mold.
Now I'm out of bullplate until my quart gets here.

[Dman4321]

What about an extra hotplate to pre-heat ingots, there is still a bit of downtime, but even with my 10lb Lee pot, i welcome the break and get up and walk around a bit.. Seems a bit simpler than having a waterfall setup with molten lead, as well as a much safer proposition.

[Danderdude]

Well, the nearly worst case scenario happened.

As I suspected, the stream would oxidize on the way down from the top pot to bottom pot, and also incorporate air into the melt, causing even more tin oxide problems. Then, after a good 10 mins, the pitch of the gurgling in the pipe changed.

Clog.
All-stop. Remove and melt out. Reinstall. Same problem.

Then I started getting some chunky junk that wouldn't flux out. The galvanized water pipe was contaminating the melt with zinc.

Strike two.

Tried a larger diameter copper pipe, but it acted as a radiator and messed things up even worse.

Strike three.

I now have them side by side, and switch between the two every 5 lbs or so.

[Colorado4wheel]

I used to use two Lee pots. Easiest way to do it is fill one full. Then cast till it's no more then 1/2 empty. Fill the other about 60% full and preheat it to about 25F over the primary pot. Pick up the second pot and pour into first. You seldom adjust the first. Just very small adjustments keeps it most stable (for a Lee). Second pot is on High most the time. Turn it down when it's close to the right temp. You never run out of lead and always get to cast. Wear gloves of course.

[zuke]

I use a LEE 4-20 as my pour pot and my "retired" 10lber to premelt my lead.
When the 20 get's down about 1 1/2 inch's I plug in the 10lber. When it's molten I pick it up and poue it into the 20 lb pot.

[mold maker]

Transfering the molten lead with a dipper instead of pouring from one to the other is much safer.
Your idea is sound and should keep temps in the casting pot near perfect.

[WildmanJack]

Danderdude,
Just a word of caution to you and anyone else that gets a but like that. PLEASE don't use ICE!!!! put the burned finger or fingers into regular water. The ice will do more damage to the tissue in your finger than the bur will do. Don't add ice to the water, just replace the water if it starts to not feel cool... Sorry about your injury, I've done pretty much the same thing myself. I spent almost 20 years as a medic and working part time in an emergency room and I know what I have suggested is the way to go...
hang in thee, it will get better...
Jack

[supe47]

I use my Lyman 10# (PID controlled) for pouring and the Lee 20# for preheat with a piece of 3/4 gas pipe for transfer. With pipe on edge of Lyman it seldom plugs. A drop into the Lee remelts the lead. Works great even on larger Lee 6 holers. May not be pretty but it's easy to tear down and store. I cast outside in the great CA weather. This pipe was the prototype. Cleaned it up a bit with a pivoting mounting wire. Only takes 'bout half a minute to transfer lead and recharge top pot. Mold takes a break on the hotplate.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_193324e4605f91ba73.jpg ('http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1812')
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_193324e4605f93bde8.jpg ('http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1813')
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_193324e4605f9519a2.jpg ('http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1814')

[imashooter2]

I wouldn't count on the two nozzles flowing the same volume of lead... Not a huge issue if the top flows less than the bottom, but if the top flows more, the bottom will eventually overflow.

[Danderdude]

Been a while since I updated this thread.

The vertical feed idea is trash. The falling droplets oxidize on their way. Sealing the pipe didn't help, nor did evacuating the pipe with CO2 or Argon. Air still found its way in. I'm sure the idea *can* work, but I've wasted enough valuable casting time driving this dead-end road.

I've run around 100lbs through them now, sitting side-by-side. It works perfectly. When one gets to half empty, I reload it with sprues and alloy and switch to the other.

[taminsong]

:D sometimes simple solutions works best!

I use the Lee besides my Lyman, when its nearly half, I refill it from the Lee and add all the sprues and ingots to the Lee. Its a cycle and I can continue doing it until I have 2,000 pcs and I stop. That's enough for the day.