Really Bad Leading ?

[hylander]

Wasn't sure were to post this.
So earlier I posted that my OM SBH was shooting great.
However I am now cleaning it and the Lead fouling is awful, Very Heavy
Forcing cone on up for about 1", first 1/2" is the worst.
I did notice before shooting cast on my initial cleaning I beleive I could feel restiction where the barrel mates to the frame.
How do I fix this and how do I get the Lead out, been scubbing with the cooper pot cleaning pad but it is hard to get it in the forcing cone area

Thanks

[LUBEDUDE]

Sorry to hear about your mess.

As you probably know, you will always get "some" leading in the forcing cone area, but it should not be bad like you say.

Lewis lead remover is good, easy to use for revolvers. You use a brass wire screen wedged with a rubber plunger. It costs $15-20, you can get it at Brownells and it can be used many times.

My absolute favorite, but expensive is Outer's Foul Out. There are diferrent models/generations -
I,II,III. III being the portable unit. It runs off of the chemical principle of electrolysis- the softest metal disolves first. The last unit I bough was about $100 on sale. Well worth it if you shoot a lot . It removes copper too with the proper solution.

Good Luck

[**oneshot**]

copper scrubber pad. wrapped on a boremop for a very tight fit.

[chboats]

+1 on the copper scrubber pad. Make sure it is all copper, like Chore Boy, and not copper plated steel

Sounds like you need to fire lap it to remove the constriction where the barrel screws into the frame. Common problem with the SBH. Also check the cylinder throats, sometimes they are too tight. Do a search on fire lapping.

Carl

[WVHunter129]

I have heard about a product called PB Blocker (not PB Blaster) on the internet. Do a google on PB Blocker. It is suppose to help you from getting lead fouling and if you were to get it make it easier to clean.

Sent from my SGH-i677 using Board Express

[Char-Gar]

Most likely the problem is due to your bullet and not the gun.

[chboats]

WVHunter129 - do a search here for PB Blocker. It got less than favorable reviews. You might even say it made things worse.

Carl

[44man]

Maybe, maybe a tight spot. Fix by power lapping. But soft lead boolit skid is as bad or worse.
Yeah, yeah, expand to obturate! But what good is a boolit that wants to go straight when it hits the twist?
Make your boolit take spin as fast as you can. The instant torque applied to a boolit is so tremendous you cant imagine.

[dla]

Sometimes leading can be overrated. What I mean is that leading might just be cosmetic. If the accuracy suffers, then the leading has to be delt with. I know that I spent a lot time fixing a leading issue that really had no effect on the revolver's performance, but I didn't like the look of my bore. Have fun! :)

[Moonie]

I have heard about a product called PB Blocker (not PB Blaster) on the internet. Do a google on PB Blocker. It is suppose to help you from getting lead fouling and if you were to get it make it easier to clean.

Sent from my SGH-i677 using Board Express

I agree with Char-Gar, it failed pretty much every test the members here put it through, and in some cases caused guns that never leaded before to lead.

[robertbank]

+1 on the copper scrubber pad. Make sure it is all copper, like Chore Boy, and not copper plated steel

Sounds like you need to fire lap it to remove the constriction where the barrel screws into the frame. Common problem with the SBH. Also check the cylinder throats, sometimes they are too tight. Do a search on fire lapping.

Carl

I agree with the above. Check your cylinder throats. Rugers often come with very tight cylinders. My GP-100 has three cylinders that wouldn't allow a .356 bullet through them. I had teh cylinders reamed to .358 and the problem of leading was significantly reduced and accuracy improved as well.

Take Care

Bob

[hylander]

I agree with the above. Check your cylinder throats. Rugers often come with very tight cylinders. My GP-100 has three cylinders that wouldn't allow a .356 bullet through them. I had teh cylinders reamed to .358 and the problem of leading was significantly reduced and accuracy improved as well.
Take Care
Bob

My cylinders are oversized, .432
I was shooting .430 bullets

[2 dogs]

Well, that is a problem because the gas is getting past your bullet and blowing the lube out of the grease groove on the way. No lube in the barrel makes friction. Friction makes leading. What are you using to measure your throats and bullets with?

[Char-Gar]

Ok.. I thought somebody else would get around to this. Were your bullets commerical "hard cast" with bevel bases and blue wax lube? If the answer to this is yes, then look no farther for the source of your leading.

Tight cylinder throats were not an issue with the OM SBHs. Folks seem to have "measuritis'. The issue is not the gun, but the load and most likely the bullet.

[hylander]

Ok.. I thought somebody else would get around to this. Were your bullets commerical "hard cast" with bevel bases and blue wax lube? If the answer to this is yes, then look no farther for the source of your leading.

Tight cylinder throats were not an issue with the OM SBHs. Folks seem to have "measuritis'. The issue is not the gun, but the load and most likely the bullet.

Yes, .429 - .430 commercial cast bevel base with blue wax lube.
This was already loaded ammo from a gun show 30 years ago.

I have some .431 and .432 bevel base bullets coming from Dardas tomorrow that I will load. I have no idea what kind of lube he uses.

[Char-Gar]

Yes, .429 - .430 commercial cast bevel base with blue wax lube.
This was already loaded ammo from a gun show 30 years ago.

I have some .431 and .432 bevel base bullets coming from Dardas tomorrow that I will load. I have no idea what kind of lube he uses.

You will never be happy until you get some bullets that have plain bases, an alloy that is not rock hard, and a bullet lube that works.

I know nothing about Dardas, but I went to their web site. Same old machine cast BB designs. Same old rock hard alloy and who knows what lube. I predict your problems won't be solved. The extra .001 or .002 in diameter won't help much, if at all.


There are commercial caster out there who use a softer alloy that will work well, a good lube and are hand cast from good flat based molds.

[robertbank]

You will never be happy until you get some bullets that have plain bases, an alloy that is not rock hard, and a bullet lube that works.

I know nothing about Dardas, but I went to their web site. Same old machine cast BB designs. Same old rock hard alloy and who knows what lube. I predict your problems won't be solved. The extra .001 or .002 in diameter won't help much, if at all.


There are commercial caster out there who use a softer alloy that will work well, a good lube and are hand cast from good flat based molds.

Bang on and great comment. Had a salesman from Missouri Bullets extolling the virtues of bevel based bullets. I mentioned I thought the only reason commercial casters use the bevel base design is to allow for easier dropping of the bullets out of the mold. Nope not according to him. Only designed that way to allow loaders to avoid lead shaving. I mentioned belling to him but he was adamant. At that point I didn't bother mentioning the hard lube factor.

Take care

Bob

[hylander]

You will never be happy until you get some bullets that have plain bases, an alloy that is not rock hard, and a bullet lube that works.

There are commercial caster out there who use a softer alloy that will work well, a good lube and are hand cast from good flat based molds.

So far I have not found any, except for ones that cost $22 per hundred or more

[Char-Gar]

So far I have not found any, except for ones that cost $22 per hundred or more

mattsbullets.com

[hylander]

mattsbullets.com

Thanks
I saw those, but they only size to .430 and my throats are larger

[Char-Gar]

hylander... I can tell that you don't have allot of experience or knowledge about cast bullets in sixguns and are picking up things from this and other web sites without understanding how cast bullets really work.

1. What is needed is for the cast bullet to seal the throats and not allow gas to cut the sides of the bullet base as it enters the barrel. This is where your commercial cast bullets are failing you.

2. The cast bullet in 44 caliber can be .002 undersized for the throats with no ill effect IF the alloy is soft enough for the gas pressure to expand the base thereby sealing the throats. Rock hard alloys must be the exact size because handguns won't exert enough pressure to expand the bases at any normal working pressure. Certainly not at 44 Special pressures. Softer alloys are much more flexable in their fit to the cylinder throat.

3. Matt casts his bullets soft enough to slug up the .002 with no problems.

4. If you are going to shoot cast bullet and not cast them yourself, at least buy a lube size machine and lube and size them yourself. Matt and any other caster will sell you "raw" (unsized and unlubed) bullets at a discount. You can then size them any size you want that the raw casting will premit. You can also use any lube you wish.

I have bought 44 caliber raw cast bullest from Matt and sized them .432 with no problems. Of course whether a raw casting is .432 or not depend on the individual mold.

5. Alloy temper, lube quality, bullet size, gas pressure are the variables in cast bullets. There has to be the proper balance between all of these elements to have sucess in sixgun cast bullet shooting. To have this balance, you need to understand the interaction of all of these variables. I can tell from your posts, you are not there yet.

I am not trying to insult you, but help you. So pardon me if I am a little gruff, as I do not intend to be.

[44man]

Fit is good but I will never believe in expanding boolits to obturate.
I shoot .430" and .431" boolits from a .4324" throat and .430" groove with full accuracy and zero leading all the time. I do like the RD at .432" but accuracy is still the same.
I use WD, WW metal but I also use even harder for better accuracy.
I hate BB. Not because of leaks but because they shorten drive bands for boolit weight.
As long as a boolit is groove size or a little larger, it is good.
Alignment at the cone and cylinder chamber alignment is needed but I feel a smaller boolit then the throats does less work to pull a cylinder. Super tight cylinders and throat size boolits might never align anything so you get a crooked start and smeared boolits on one side, let alone off center gun wear. The "bank vault" gun might disappoint you.
Expanding any boolit to me means boolit damage and maybe slump.
Over throat size boolits do nothing, zero, zip!
Every revolver I own or ever had used boolits AT LEAST .0005" under throat.
Soft or hard boolits do not cause leading, other factors do. Hard cast is not a dirty word! Too soft IS!
Most everyone shoots bullets great and then think they can shoot 8 BHN cast the same at the same velocity too by the way.
Boolits do not get gas cut in the throats with the right powder choice. The primer and powder will push the boolit out before gas pressure takes affect in the throats. Yes, there is still just powder behind the boolit as long as powder does not all burn in the case first, like BE. That is why a .44 cone gets sandblasted at the edges from powder THAT HAS NOT BURNED YET.
Expansion to obturate is so overblown it is silly, you just need a seal at the rifling. No skid to take it past the base band. Even fit to throats gets overblown. Fit the groove.
All these groups were shot at 50 yards with PB HARD 22 BHN boolits under throat size. Each group was 5 shots.

[Char-Gar]

Hylander... As you can see folks do not agree on this stuff. So try it all for yourself and decided what works for you.

[44man]

Stuff gets repeated over and over and over forever without knowledge of what a revolver needs to be accurate and not lead the bore.

[hylander]

Thanks for all the input.
Char-Gar: you are correct, I know little about cast bullet shooting.
The only cast I have been loading and shooting so far is my Colt 1991-A1 and all is well with that Pistol, using .451 BB bullets at 850fps, no leading.
44man: What do you consider good powder choices for the 44 Mag. ?
Say 850-1100fps
I have Unique, Power Pistol and 2400, but can buy what ever is good.
I just received some 240gr. SWC bullets from Dardas of BHN 16, .431 and .432
The .431 are snug fit but fall through the Throats, the .432 are to tight to push through the throats without alot of force, can't do it with my thumb.

[44man]

Thanks for all the input.
Char-Gar: you are correct, I know little about cast bullet shooting.
The only cast I have been loading and shooting so far is my Colt 1991-A1 and all is well with that Pistol, using .451 BB bullets at 850fps, no leading.
44man: What do you consider good powder choices for the 44 Mag. ?
Say 850-1100fps
I have Unique, Power Pistol and 2400, but can buy what ever is good.
I just received some 240gr. SWC bullets from Dardas of BHN 16, .431 and .432
The .431 are snug fit but fall through the Throats, the .432 are to tight to push through the throats without alot of force, can't do it with my thumb.
The .44 is very forgiving as long as the boolit can take initial pressures. Those powders all work.
My thoughts have always been that the more instant the pressure, the tougher the boolit needs to be.
I am crazy but still think a softer boolit can be shot with a slower powder, not the other way around.
The common thought is to soften boolits for light loads with fast powders. That is backwards.
The .38 wad cutter should be HARD, harder and even harder. But the .357 can actually use softer lead with the slower powders.
Pure lead is shot with BP because it does not THUMP a boolit all at once.

[hylander]

Almost have all the lead out, what a pain.
Will go to Sportsmans warehouse tomorrow to see if they have a Lewis Lead Remover. Needless to say I will nopt shoot anymore of that particular ammo.

[44man]

Revolvers are funny animals to be sure. I was having accuracy problems with my .44 for a while with a different alloy. I just could not shoot a good group so I thought it was leading. I cleaned the bore and there was not a single speck. I am still scratching my head!
I shoot until the pin gets sticky and then clean the pin and hole, put new STP on and keep shooting for 2 to 3 years without a patch down the bore. My .500 JRH barrel has not been cleaned since I bought it. I do not remember when the .475 was cleaned. The 45-70 needs the pin cleaned from testing powders.
Now the truth! I have a hard time telling you how to stop leading because I never have it. I have shot 50-50 boolits for hunting with zero leading but they were oven hardened and have shot 30 BHN for target with zero leading. Thousands and thousands of under throat size boolits too.
I have seen terrible leading in .38's with dead soft lead. Lead everywhere, all over the outside of guns too.
I have a very hard time telling anyone to soften a boolit to "obturate." I will never tell you a gas check or bullet removes leading either. Lead can be run over and packed tighter.

[ColColt]

These two targets are from a M29-3 using a custom Accurate Molds mold, 43-260B, with a charge of 10.5 gr of HS-6 and the 260 gr boolit...12 shots bottom target. I thought the first was a fluke and did another and got basically the same result. There was no leading.

I sized to .432" which is the throat diameter, and lubed with BAC. For some reason this boolit/powder combo is more accurate than the standard 429421 Keith boolit in this revolver. All boolits were cast using ww's and a dash of tin. I couldn't ask for anything better.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF4156a.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/My%20Targets/_DEF4420a.jpg

[44man]

These two targets are from a M29-3 using a custom Accurate Molds mold, 43-260B, with a charge of 10.5 gr of HS-6 and the 260 gr boolit...12 shots bottom target. I thought the first was a fluke and did another and got basically the same result. There was no leading.

I sized to .432" which is the throat diameter, and lubed with BAC. For some reason this boolit/powder combo is more accurate than the standard 429421 Keith boolit in this revolver. All boolits were cast using ww's and a dash of tin. I couldn't ask for anything better.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF4156a.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/My%20Targets/_DEF4420a.jpg
Yes, wonderful. That is a joy to see. :)

[ColColt]

Sure was...of course, that was standing at 25 yards.(In my dreams)

[MtGun44]

Undersized, rock hard, questionable design, and questionable lube.

Gee - I can't figure why they are leading. . . . . . NOT!

The BB is the LEAST of the problems. If everything else is right BBs work
fine.

Bill

[44man]

Undersized, rock hard, questionable design, and questionable lube.

Gee - I can't figure why they are leading. . . . . . NOT!

The BB is the LEAST of the problems. If everything else is right BBs work
fine.

Bill
I worked with a friends .357 with BB boolits from a Lee mold. I never got any leading at all but by removing the BB from the mold, groups are twice as good. That is where I am with BB but some can shoot OK. They do not promote leading by themselves. It has been just an accuracy thing.
It is the same as some GC boolits NEEDING the GC or they turn sideways. Others will shoot if you leave the GC off.
To me it has always been a twist, spin thing and some can be worked around by changing velocity.
Leading would drive me nuts. Not the boolit itself in most cases but the alloy and how pressure is applied. Then the lube of course, LLA does lead my bores and I was sent some boolits with a funny dry lube that was horrible. 5 shots and there was no rifling to see.
I have shot tons of factory loads and boolits, Double Tap, Cast precision, etc with no leading. I pulled some DT boolits to find they look just like mine with a narrow base band and 3 GG's, why it works, I don't know.
Boolit hardness in BHN is not so important but toughness is so they take the rifling.
I got a sample of Laser Cast one time and they stunk in the particular gun, poor accuracy and some leading. I don't think it was the hardness but the alloy. Seems as if some metals do not bind on a molecular level. But some have good luck with them.
Slump and skid has to be stopped, skid is the primary cause of gas cutting.
Here are 2 boolits, shot from a .45 Colt and a .475, same powder, same alloy, different boolit weights and velocities. See the skid on the .475? It stops at the base band and both are super accurate with no leading at all. The .475 has done under 1" at 100 yards even with some skid. Water dropped WW metal. Any softer would need a GC.
It really pays to recover boolits and study them.

[hylander]

Today I shot 15 rounds of the 240swcbb sized .431, BHN16 on top of 10.5 of Unique.
Felt fairly stout, Accuracy was very good, sorry no Chrony.
Leaded up pretty good, most of it came out without much difficulty.
All leading was where the barrel screws into the frame about 1" long,
no where else, none in or aound the forcing cone.
I think I need to Fire Lap, what do you all think ?

[hylander]

So I got the Lewis Lead remover, great tool :D
Apparently there was still a lot of lead in the barrel :shock:
Big slivers came out, I thought I had most of it out but there is still more that even the Lewis Lead remover is not getting

[subsonic]

Flame suit on:

Shoot some jacketed and try again.

[hylander]

Flame suit on:

Shoot some jacketed and try again.

I have been scrubbing for the last 30 minutes
Still have slight leading in the groves
I was thinking maybe some jacketed rounds would rip the rest out, or would it just embed it ?

[44man]

I have been scrubbing for the last 30 minutes
Still have slight leading in the groves
I was thinking maybe some jacketed rounds would rip the rest out, or would it just embed it ?
A question I can't answer. I have recovered bullets shot over a little lead in a friends gun and found a lead coating on the bullets. Did they run over lead?
Same as a GC where I found them covered in lead. The check does not remove leading in my opinion, it prevents gas cutting at the start. The wrong alloy or powder can make a GC boolit lead as bad as anything else.
I would power lap for sure, you will not hurt anything. Then you will be able to shoot a lot of stuff, even a little softer.
I will not tell you to shoot real soft so the boolit expands after the tight spot. Your load is showing skid already.
Remember that even if you have no gas cutting, a boolit trying to go straight without taking the twist will also peel off lead. It does not melt, it is like taking a scraper to the boolit. Even a crimp will scrape lead from a boolit.
Many friends buy factory loads and when I picked up brass, they were still crimped! The worst are the .38's.
I do not know if you have a tight spot or your boolits are just skidding. You can try a much harder boolit. No, hard does not lead the bore if they fit.
Go back and look at my .45 boolit, 347 gr shot with 21.5 gr of 296. Rifling marks are perfect on the whole boolit. Just water dropped WW metal. The .475 is the same metal but heavier at a higher pressure. It shows some skid but it stops at the base band, that is the big secret. If base band marks were larger I would harden the boolit. I would have no problem going to 25, 28 or even 30 BHN.
If jacketed bullets shoot great, make lead act the same.

[robertbank]

So I got the Lewis Lead remover, great tool :D
Apparently there was still a lot of lead in the barrel :shock:
Big slivers came out, I thought I had most of it out but there is still more that even the Lewis Lead remover is not getting

Use copper chor boy strands around a bronze brush. It will take lead out faster than a Lewis Lead remover. I have never found shooting jacketed rounds ever got the lead out of my guns.

Take Care

Bob

[hylander]

Use copper chor boy strands around a bronze brush. It will take lead out faster than a Lewis Lead remover. I have never found shooting jacketed rounds ever got the lead out of my guns.

Take Care

Bob

I did, did not work well at all


Ummm that is a first. NOrmally the chor boy strnads ripps teh lead out rather nicely.

Take Care

Bob

[2 dogs]

Well then you are doing it improperly. Cut it into a sheet. Wrap it tightly. Should be tight in your bore. Will cut lead like nothing else out there.

[subsonic]

Make sure your copper scrubber is not magnetic!

Some of the cheap brands are copper coated steel. Probably not good for your bore.

[hylander]

Got it all out finally :mrgreen:
What finally got the rest out was the BC lead remover cloth and JB bore paste.
I used the cloth, and then the cloth and JB together and went to town. Then followed that up with
two treatments of Wipe Out.
Holy Smokes there was a lot of fouling under the lead build up, pretty much no copper fouling.
Now to clean the cylinders, then load up some lapping rounds and off to the range.

Thanks for everyones input :drinks:

[gray wolf]

I had the same problem with the 44 mag I was shooting, caked up lead after the forcing cone. It was about 1 1/2 inches at the junction of the barrel and frame.
The forcing cone had tool marks like a trees growth rings, and they went right into the barrel lead. That and a slight restriction made a mess out of the first 1 1/2 inches of the barrel.
When I used the Chore boy I had a towel under the frame window and I was amazed at the lead coming out.
If you read my post in our town about Rugers customer service you will see they fixed the problem.
They did a very nice job of polishing the forcing cone and removed any restriction that may have been there.
There dime both ways and the pistol was returned in one week.
Now the same load, same bullet = No leading at all.
Why bother with all this drama if they will fix the problem.
Go read my post.
My throats are .432 the barrel is .4295 the bullets are .4315
The lead is of unknown origin --about like ACWW--Vel. 1050 to 1100
The bullet is a Lyman 429421 from a pitted mold 255 gr. the front band is way undersize
and the bullet is out of round, lube is Micro crystalline wax.
Barrel now cleans up with no brush, a bore snake at the most.
Just a thought.

[hylander]

I had the same problem with the 44 mag I was shooting, caked up lead after the forcing cone. It was about 1 1/2 inches at the junction of the barrel and frame.
The forcing cone had tool marks like a trees growth rings, and they went right into the barrel lead. That and a slight restriction made a mess out of the first 1 1/2 inches of the barrel.
When I used the Chore boy I had a towel under the frame window and I was amazed at the lead coming out.
If you read my post in our town about Rugers customer service you will see they fixed the problem.
They did a very nice job of polishing the forcing cone and removed any restriction that may have been there.
There dime both ways and the pistol was returned in one week.
Now the same load, same bullet = No leading at all.
Why bother with all this drama if they will fix the problem.
Go read my post.
My throats are .432 the barrel is .4295 the bullets are .4315
The lead is of unknown origin --about like ACWW--Vel. 1050 to 1100
The bullet is a Lyman 429421 from a pitted mold 255 gr. the front band is way undersize
and the bullet is out of round, lube is Micro crystalline wax.
Barrel now cleans up with no brush, a bore snake at the most.
Just a thought.

I know Ruger has good CS, but this revolver is over 30 years old.
My forcing cone looks the same as you descibe, tree rings
I'm thinking a little late for warrenty work.

[gray wolf]

I would talk to gill anyway, be very specific. You have nothing to loose.
Gill @ 603-865-2370
But it's your call.

[hylander]

So I went to the range.
Fire lapped it and the bore seemed real smooth and looked great.
Next I fired some .431 SWC, after only ten rounds leading was REAL bad.
Cleaned it and fired ten rounds of .430 SWC, again REAL bad leading, not as bad as the .431 but bad. I still have not got it all out .
I also got some leading up near the muzzle that I never had before.
Big slivers came out, mostly where the barrel screws into the frame.
Leading after ten rounds was bad enough that I had to give my cleaning rod a heavy smak with my palm to get it through the bore at the barrel frame area.
Funny thing, super accurate.
I'm done with lead for this Revolver
Loads where:
.431 and .430 240SWC flat base
9.0 of Unique
Light to medium roll crimp

[Larry Gibson]

I'm done with lead for this Revolver

That is too bad. Now that you've done all the unnecessary stuff like fire lapping, using commercial cast with dubious lubes, etc.....char gar's advise many posts ago was the best; "You will never be happy until you get some bullets that have plain bases, an alloy that is not rock hard, and a bullet lube that works.".

For commercial cast bullets I'd suggest you try Desperado Cowboy Bullets at www.cowboybullets.com and try their 240 gr FB’d soft cast (20-1) bullet at .430. The lube they use is excellent. I suggest a load of 8.5 – 9.5 gr of Unique. I think you will find the leading problems will be solved, accuracy will be excellent and you will be a happy shooter. You can get a sample pack for $12-13 + shipping to try before getting a lot of them.

Larry Gibson

[dmize]

As a side note,since you arent pusing things too hard I would suggest trying some Hornady swaged SWC's.
I will not get into the hard/soft alloy or lube arguments. All I can say is I have a 44-40 Vaquero that was a certified nightmare using comercial bullets loaded to 44-40 pressures. I bought a box of them (pre casting days) because the were .430 and my personal and unchangeable thoughts on gas cutting and bullet bump,and the leading is flat out non existant.
As a side note I was curious and loaded some of them for my SRH,one would be really suprised at how hard those soft and DRY lubed bullets can be pushed.

[monge]

has enenyone tried tumble lubeing the commercial cast boolits to see if that helps with the leading?

[hylander]

I'm done with lead for this Revolver

That is too bad. Now that you've done all the unnecessary stuff like fire lapping, using commercial cast with dubious lubes, etc.....char gar's advise many posts ago was the best; "You will never be happy until you get some bullets that have plain bases, an alloy that is not rock hard, and a bullet lube that works.".

For commercial cast bullets I'd suggest you try Desperado Cowboy Bullets at www.cowboybullets.com and try their 240 gr FB’d soft cast (20-1) bullet at .430. The lube they use is excellent. I suggest a load of 8.5 – 9.5 gr of Unique. I think you will find the leading problems will be solved, accuracy will be excellent and you will be a happy shooter. You can get a sample pack for $12-13 + shipping to try before getting a lot of them.

Larry Gibson

The bullets I have are flat base, hardness is supose to be 12 BHN and they are sized .431 to my Cylinders that are .432
My load is 9.0 of Unique
Just a little frustrated

[2 dogs]

You bullet is too small. You need to be shooting at LEAST a .432 bullet if not a bit bigger.

I dont have your gun in hand to examine, but you need to eliminate one problem at a time. The first would be to SEAL your cylinder on firing. You have never said if you examined your muzzle for a lube star either that I saw.

[hylander]

You bullet is too small. You need to be shooting at LEAST a .432 bullet if not a bit bigger.

I dont have your gun in hand to examine, but you need to eliminate one problem at a time. The first would be to SEAL your cylinder on firing. You have never said if you examined your muzzle for a lube star either that I saw.

.432 bullet will not go into the chambers.
No lube star at muzzle, bore looks very dry, bullets are lubed with the
blue crayon looking lube.
I wish I was setup to cast my own, but the funds are just not there

[subsonic]

Get some Lee tumble lube and tumble lube your crappy commercial cast boolits.

It should help. It has for me in the past. If you can't find any without buying a sizer, let me know and I'll send you some for $6 shipping cost (proably about what it costs to buy locally). I have a lot of bottles of it that came with different Lee sizers.

[2 dogs]

If a .432" bullet wont fit your throats are not .432".

What tool are you using to measure your throats/bullets?

[hylander]

If a .432" bullet wont fit your throats are not .432".

What tool are you using to measure your throats/bullets?

Calipers
I'll try slugging the throats, but .431 bullet takes just a tad thumb pressure to push into cylinder throats, .430 is a slip fit.
The bullets are flat base hand cast from a gentleman over at Rugerforum.com

[Char-Gar]

I hate to tell you I told you so, but I did. You problem is your bullets!!! That is not going to change until you learn that lesson. If you don't want to learn it, then keep on buying jacketed bullets or take up golf.

You get lots of advise on this forum and a good part of it is nonsense.

Send me a bullet or two and let me look at it and measure it's hardness and take a hard look at the lube. If you want to do that send me a PM and I will send you my address. I will also send you a couple dozen bullets that I know are good, with a good lube. I will send you some plain base as well as gas checked bullets.

[2 dogs]

Charles is right. You have a PM. Charles I will send you a copy.

[hylander]

Thanks Char-Gar and 2 dogs, I appreciate your input and offers.
PM's coming
I know a lot about reloading but not with cast but I'm learning, some of it the
hard way. I load commercial cast for my Colt 1911 with no issues at all,
I'm thinking I got lucky. My Ruger OM .357 and my wifes S&W .38 eat any cast lead load I put in them with no leading, again I think I got lucky.

[454PB]

Well I'll admit to having leading problems a few times. I won't hammer you anymore about how to prevent it......but I can tell you how to remove it easily.

If you're at the range (or wherever you shoot) and you know the barrel is leaded, fire a few very lightly loaded cast or jacketed bullets. By lightly loaded, I mean 600 fps. or so. Usually for a .44, you can use a fast burning powder like Bullseye loaded to a listed starting load for .44 special.

If your at home and cleaning and find heavy leading, slug the barrel. Driving a slug through the barrel will push the leading out. A few passes with a brass brush dipped in cleaning solvent followed by a wet patch will clean the rest of it out.

[Char-Gar]

.432 bullet will not go into the chambers.
No lube star at muzzle, bore looks very dry, bullets are lubed with the
blue crayon looking lube.
I wish I was setup to cast my own, but the funds are just not there

When you say a .432 bullet won't go into the chambers, do you mean that a .432 bullet won't pass through the cylinder throats OR do you mean a round loaded with .432 bullets won't chamber in you pistol? That is a big difference we need to clarify.

Don't get discouraged. Your OM SBH will shoot cast bullets and shoot them well. Autopistols work by a different set of rules and a 38 Special sixgun is a real sweetheart. It is hard not to find a good cast bullet load in any decent 38 Special.

Lots of advise on this board. Some of it is relevant to your situation and some of it is not. Much of it is contradictory and that is a problem.

[Larry Gibson]

The bullets I have are flat base, hardness is supose to be 12 BHN and they are sized .431 to my Cylinders that are .432
My load is 9.0 of Unique
Just a little frustrated



Good, you've got most of the ingrediants down. One left; what is the lube?

Larry Gibson

[hylander]

When you say a .432 bullet won't go into the chambers, do you mean that a .432 bullet won't pass through the cylinder throats OR do you mean a round loaded with .432 bullets won't chamber in you pistol? That is a big difference we need to clarify.

Don't get discouraged. Your OM SBH will shoot cast bullets and shoot them well. Autopistols work by a different set of rules and a 38 Special sixgun is a real sweetheart. It is hard not to find a good cast bullet load in any decent 38 Special.

Lots of advise on this board. Some of it is relevant to your situation and some of it is not. Much of it is contradictory and that is a problem.

Sorry; .432 bullet will not pass throught the cylinder throats

Larry;
Some kind of blue wax stuff

[Larry Gibson]

Larry;
Some kind of blue wax stuff

I'm going to suggest then you take 20 - 30 of those commercail cast and clean the wax lube off. You can melt it off with a heat gun if you have one or do as I do. Put them in a small can and cover them with Coleman fuel or paint thinner. Let them soak for 45 - 60 minutes and then swish them around a little and the wax lube will wash off. Drain the fuel/thinner off and pour them out on an old towel or a rag and let them dry. Get some good lube like BAC, Javelina or a similar NRA 50/50 lube. You will be able to hand lube them without a lot of trouble. Yes it's a PITA but we need to see what the real problem is that is causing the leading. With the lube grooves fill with good lube load them with that same load and test fore them checking for leading.

Larry Gibson

[hylander]

Larry;
Some kind of blue wax stuff

I'm going to suggest then you take 20 - 30 of those commercail cast and clean the wax lube off. You can melt it off with a heat gun if you have one or do as I do. Put them in a small can and cover them with Coleman fuel or paint thinner. Let them soak for 45 - 60 minutes and then swish them around a little and the wax lube will wash off. Drain the fuel/thinner off and pour them out on an old towel or a rag and let them dry. Get some good lube like BAC, Javelina or a similar NRA 50/50 lube. You will be able to hand lube them without a lot of trouble. Yes it's a PITA but we need to see what the real problem is that is causing the leading. With the lube grooves fill with good lube load them with that same load and test fore them checking for leading.

Larry Gibson

I can remove the lube with a small screw driver, it comes right out in chunks.

[Larry Gibson]

I can remove the lube with a small screw driver, it comes right out in chunks.

That'll work fine.

Larry Gibson